Are We Improving?

[Kyusss]

i think were improving most weeks
probably the 2nd worst game we played we got our best result
so i dont think results are telling us much atm

 

[diligaf]

Based on our boys winning a maximum of 3 matches in 07, what sort of improvement would we expect in 08? Are we in a similiar position as Carlton was in 05?

 

[_RT_]

Yeah ok. How many teams have been beaten by 157 points in the last 100 years (improving teams don't get beaten by such outrageous margins)? How many teams were winless after 11 rounds in the last 100 years?
How many games had we won after 11 games last year?

Sorry, but improvement from my point of view shows in ladder position and wins on the board. Not by how much we were flogged by in 4 games last year. Everyone at the end of last year was saying that the only acceptable improvement richmond could show this year was to play finals. We're a million miles away.

Here is some hope for the future then. Round 17 2004 Brisbane smacked Adelaide by 141 points. A Crows side that contained players like Ruciutto, McLeod, Edwards, Goodwin, Johncock, McGregor yet 18 months later that same list finished the 2005 season top of the ladder with 17 wins.

Now I am not suggesting that we will repeat that far from it, as the Crows list was much better than our is, but what I am saying is just because we lost by 157 in 1 game this year does not prove we are poorer than last year, remember at this stage last year we had been belted twice by 20 goals and although we had won 6 games it must be said we had scraped over the line in 3 of them 8 points against the Blues, 2 points over the Dons and 3 points against the Crows. This year instead of winning those close ones we have fallen short.

 

[_RT_]

Based on our boys winning a maximum of 3 matches in 07, what sort of improvement would we expect in 08? Are we in a similiar position as Carlton was in 05?

At this early stage I would accept between 8-11 wins next season. We get 3 of our best 6 players back at full fitness (hopefully) and add to that the experience gained by our kids this year and we should be winning those game that we have been in with a shot of winning this year but have failed to.

 

[bazg77]

Ultimately, I dont care about our not winning games this year. I only care about putting together a list that can win a grand final, it would be great to get the no1 draft pick this year plus 17 and 18. If we only win 4 games next year we will get the 1st pick again. We need to strengthen the list for a future grand final win. This game is all about premierships

 

[BrissyTiger]

We can't win games when the following scenario is played out.

Injuries: Simmonds, Coghlan, Brown, Knobel (for back up)
Players down on form (compared to 06): Johnson, Pettifer, Hyde, P.Bowden, Krakouer, Tuck, Raines, J.Bowden.

Thats 10 of our best 18 (excluded Knobel and P.Bowden).

We also played well above our best last year and in many cases won the close games that we can't win now!!

I dont think we are far off last year's form. Just not as lucky!!

 

[jezza]

Sorry, but improvement from my point of view shows in ladder position and wins on the board. Not by how much we were flogged by in 4 games last year. Everyone at the end of last year was saying that the only acceptable improvement richmond could show this year was to play finals. We're a million miles away.

This is the attitude that has held us back for so long. Too much focus on the wins column in the present, not enough focus on building a list to deliver sustained success.

 

[Big Punt]

IMO the answer to the question depends on your definition of "improvement".

If you mean has our current on-field performance and competitiveness improved? You would have to say no. Although there is an argument that we have more competitive in more games this year.

If you mean have we made progress towards building a premiership team - I would say - probably.

 

[banzai]

IMO the answer to the question depends on your definition of "improvement".

If you mean has our current on-field performance and competitiveness improved? You would have to say no. Although there is an argument that we have more competitive in more games this year.

But its a very fine line. Last year we won heaps of close games, this year we have had 9 games for the taking in the last quarter and not won any of them. If we had Simmonds playing in last years form we could quite easily be 7-4. IMO the only area where we are worse than last year is the ruck. Apart from that we are a better and younger side than 12 months ago.

 

[kainokaino]

i think if we fail to make finals next year then terrys 5 year plan is screwed

you might think its stupid suggesting we have to make finals next year

when at the moment were looking like getting the wooden spoon at the end of this year

but last year we finished 9th and everyone was expecting us to finish in the 8 this year.

if by 2009 were not a top 4 contender and dont make finals and actually cause a bit of trouble...

then wallace surely shouldnt be offered a new contract

 

[jimmy15_]

Wallace won't be in trouble if we don't make the finals next year, however i think he might be in a little bit of trouble if we are where we are at at the moment. I also think the likeliness of this happening is very low, as fingers crossed we will be seeing, brown, coughlan and simmonds in the team most weeks, as well as improvement by most of our youngsters. We have't improved this year, sitting down of the bottom of the ladder says that, except there are reasons such as lack of experience that has caused this. Am I more excited about next year then I was this time last year? Absolutely.

 

[Calcium Man]

The best way to see if we have improved is through the kids.

Deledio - Has improved a heap. Is starting to dominate games and is kicking some good goals. Has gone missing once or twice but another preseason should do it.

Tambling - Has also improved. Has shown his game breaking ability a couple of times. And is kicking a few handy goals. Hopefully remains injury free for the rest of the year. Needs 2 more preseasons.

Foley - Has probably got better by the fact he backs himself. Is also showing the benefit of an extra preseason with his ability to spend more time on the park.

Pattison - Has definitely improved. I admit i have and still do doubt his ability at AFL level but keeps on trying.

Howatt - Probably stayed where he was at the end of last year.

Hughes - The steamer has looked pretty impressive up forward and has improved a lot from last year. Hopefully it keeps going.

Jackson - The last 3 weeks have given us all hope. Has certainly improved. We still need more.

King - Been a very handy pick up and has improved every game.

Mcguane - Gave us all hope early in the year. Is a big improver from last season. But like most still needs more

Meyer - Gone backwards. Strung some good games together last year but has really struggled to make any impression this year. Still hopeful.

JON - Is getting better. But there is a long way to go.

Polak - Pick up of the season. Or close too. Has really found a home at richmond and hopefully another preseason and he can take the big power forwards.

Polo - Stagnated a bit. Is still learning his trade. There have been a few issues off field that are slightly concerning.

Schulz - Looked alright early but has been very disappointing of late. Has 18 months to prove the doubters wrong.

Thursfield - Coming back from a knee reco so cannot expect to much. Did a good job on lloyd. Struggled last weekend. Will be much better next year.

White - Very little improvement.

So we have certainly improved but we need a hell of a lot more. But hopefully Casserley, Connors and Peterson can push for a debut later in the year. There is some good signs with edwards and Riewoldt.

I wouldnt say the future is blazing just yet but there is a light at the end of a very dark tunnel.

 

[Goldust]

If you have a problem, go take it up with your moderator. The Freo board is often visited by tiger's supporters.

My one word...Wallace, explains my opinion that Wallace is solely responsible for you guys sitting on the bottom of the ladder. It is a fair opinion and it is not a dig at your club. Please find something better to throw at me than 'moron'. Maybe some reasoning as to why I am wrong, if that's what you believe.

Welcome to the civilised world.

BECAUSE moron, it ain't Wallace. Well documented on this here forum what a nightmare of a list he inherited from Spud Frawley and his offsiders. Mid-20s is the number of players Wallace has turned over...the likes of Morrison, Blumfield, Weller, Nicholls, Fleming, Fletcher, Marsh (all no doubt stellar recruits to our club by Frawley in your opinion) along with overseeing the demise of the likes of Chaffey, Stafford, Kellaway and Gasper and showing the door to obvious non-performers such as Roach, Limbach and Rodan in preference for youth. I am certain were it humanely possible and feasible, Wallace would have had a much bigger cleanout of talent (for want of a better word), but anymore than 8 in a season is near impossible. I think most Richmond supporters would have sensed that after hanging on for two years and nearly playing finals that there ws going to be a temporary step back before going forwards. Rest assured that players drafted under Wallace such as Hughes and Riewoldt will fill key positions for years to come at Tigerland, while the likes of Deledio, Polo, Tambling, Foley, Edwards, Oakley Nicholls , Pattison, White will all flourish with more game time under the belt. Yes, Wallace could have persuaded Stafford to hang around for one more year and Kellaway and Gasper and we would probably have snuck a few wins (and it ain't like we haven't been competitive...we have lead or trailed narrowly in the final quarter in 9 of 11 games), but it's not the way forward. WE have also been unlucky not have two of our thre egenuine stars in Brown and Simmonds sidelined for all but two games from Simmonds. Wallace is developing a list via the draft over a few seasons that will see us be a force again down the track. But it takes time. Was every first year player ever to arrive on your list an overnight star? No...it took time. Was not Haselby only a battler in his first season or two? Was Pavlich always the star he was today, or did he develop over time? Didn't it take Sandilands a few years to become a force? But you obviously think that the likes of Hughes, Pattison, Edwards, Polo etc. should be dominating from day one! Judge Wallace at the end of his five year deal and not what you see today as he is developing a list. If we are no good in two years time, yes it is his fault. But not at this point, moron!!!
The way you carry on you would think that the Dockers are thre egames clear in first place. FFS, you finfished a few miserly points ahead of a supposed winless rabble!!!

 

[RichosGuns]

Deledio - Imporved. Has imporved in the areas of back himself, running, marking, goal kicking and awareness. Still struggles to shake a heavy tag and to obtain consistency of a couple of weeks

Tambling - Improved. Has improved alot in every facit of his game. He is just about ready to start winning games of his own boot IMO. He will be our 2nd or 3rd highest goal kick for the year IMO (after Richo and maybe Pettifer). Has the launchpad to kick 25-30 goals for the year

Foley - Improved. Has improved beyond what most expected. Had a couple of 20 touch games last year but gets them week in week out now. Disposal has also greatly imporved.

Pattison - Improved. Has a big heart and is very usefuly around the groun. His shot for goal and tap work needs more attention though. Has stood up.

Howatt - Stagnant, a goal kicking midfielder who is very much an outside midfielder who struggles to get his own ball

Hughes - Imporved. Play a couple of games last year in the pocket, but looks like a very good propsect at CHF. A decent kick and great hands

Jackson - Imporved. Simply pulled his finger out and perhapes found his nieche as a tagger who can go foward or back when the match-ups call for it. Head still isn't of the chopping bloke yet though.

King - Been a very handy pick up and has improved every game.

Mcguane - Imporved. Look ver good but was dropped for Thurstfield who at times has struggled.

Meyer - Gone backwards. Strung some good games together last year but has really struggled to make any impression this year. Still hopeful.

JON - Improved. Showed a couple of things in the Geelong match, needs to get back into the seniors.

Polak - Pick up of the season. Or close too. Has really found a home at richmond and hopefully another preseason and he can take the big power forwards.

Polo - Stagnate. Seems to have started in the square and has since been moved futher away to the wings and flanks. Will be a solid player

Schulz - Stagnate. Simply need more of the football. Goes missing wayyyy ttooo much

Thursfield - Stagnate. Hasn't showed anything to suggest otherwise. Has had 1 good game but otherwise has been ordinary.

White - Stagnate. Keeps putting his hand up at the Burgers but has struggled at the AFL this year. He plays in defense and has good rebounding attributes but desperatly needs to work on his defence game as he is perhapes our worst defender at actually defening.

 

[Ando_4]

We are definitely getting better at tanking

 

[CoggaRules]

As long as we don't have a mass exodus of the young players leaving I think we will be ok.

I just hope to hear sometime this year about a pact or bond between the young guys that together they will stay and form the next part of the Tiger ressurgance.

There you go TW...you now have tigerheads giving you new marketing spins.
Get with it dude, canapes and a barbie with the paparrazi in the prez's back yard, and a group photo with all the young guys placing their wrists on a the outside of a burning cauldron and branding themselves with an angry tiger.

 

[CoggaRules]

Hughes - The steamer has looked pretty impressive up forward and has improved a lot from last year. Hopefully it keeps going.

pure tiger fantasy stuff. Has looked impressive? He kicked 3 in a dead game and every other game has looked lost.
Why do alot of tigers rate a player with what they hope happens, is what defies logic. He aint bad, but impressive? LMAO...you have got to be joking.
Its like we are thinking if we talk it up it will happen. RIght now he looks slow and lumbering and devoid of any x-factor.
The only thing he has going for him is that for his age, if he fills into a big unit, and gets agnry then we have our gorilla. But he just seems to be a "nice" kid. Thats a bad thing for us. We need a c**t.

 

[9th Placed Finish]

No doubt. We have been undermanned all year, playing kids, have lost some very close games and been unlucky is others.

The more games these kids get into them the better.

So I agree with you. But wtf is with your username? You a scummer or something?

When I was looking at signing up last year I noticed a lot of jokes about the Tigers always finishing 9th hence the username, that way people know who I follow straight up.

 

[hoogs]

BECAUSE moron, it ain't Wallace. Well documented on this here forum what a nightmare of a list he inherited from Spud Frawley and his offsiders. Mid-20s is the number of players Wallace has turned over...the likes of Morrison, Blumfield, Weller, Nicholls, Fleming, Fletcher, Marsh (all no doubt stellar recruits to our club by Frawley in your opinion) along with overseeing the demise of the likes of Chaffey, Stafford, Kellaway and Gasper and showing the door to obvious non-performers such as Roach, Limbach and Rodan in preference for youth.

Well he had to rebuild, considering he was given a five year contract and your club was doing badly then as well. Frawley wasn't exactly a great coach either in my opinion, unlike you suggest. BTW, have you seen Rodan's games this year?

Sounds very utopian. Oakley-Nicholls is going to flourish?I can see this thread getting bumped.

Deledio is very good (despite turning the ball over out of FB to us in the last five minutes to let us seal the game) and Polo is good, but you haven't exactly listed a bunch of superstars there.

Yes, Wallace could have persuaded Stafford to hang around for one more year and Kellaway and Gasper and we would probably have snuck a few wins (and it ain't like we haven't been competitive...we have lead or trailed narrowly in the final quarter in 9 of 11 games), but it's not the way forward. WE have also been unlucky not have two of our thre egenuine stars in Brown and Simmonds sidelined for all but two games from Simmonds.

No other teams in the AFL suffer injuries to there good players.

Simmonds...a genuine star? Now you're really scraping at the bottom.

Wallace is developing a list via the draft over a few seasons that will see us be a force again down the track. But it takes time. Was every first year player ever to arrive on your list an overnight star? No...it took time. Was not Haselby only a battler in his first season or two? Was Pavlich always the star he was today, or did he develop over time?

Hasleby had 21.4 disposals in his first year, coming in at 17yrs old. His career average is 21.9. Pavlich was pretty damn good as well.He kicked 9 goals 4 points in his first four games for us before being moved to CHB, due to his amazing abilities there. He was also 17.

Didn't it take Sandilands a few years to become a force? But you obviously think that the likes of Hughes, Pattison, Edwards, Polo etc. should be dominating from day one! Judge Wallace at the end of his five year deal and not what you see today as he is developing a list. If we are no good in two years time, yes it is his fault. But not at this point, moron!!!

My prediction is he will be judged at the end of next year with one year to go.

Constantly name calling isn't helping your cause, especially when you have delivered such a feeble argument.

The way you carry on you would think that the Dockers are thre egames clear in first place. FFS, you finfished a few miserly points ahead of a supposed winless rabble!!!

Supposed???

Either way, we aren't comparing teams. Connolly may well have his own faults to answer for. What we are were talking aout here is/was Wallace. You've told me very little about him