Are we ruthless enough?

[iameviljez]

The AFL has just blunted the need to be super competitive by giving all but 8 teams a free pass into the finals.

I both agree and disagree. I think it's utter horseshit that 10th gets in - that's ridiculous - but it will make the pathway from 7th/8th harder.

 

[Ratcat]

I think we have lacked that "violent aggression" most Premiership teams have, I think many times we've had the talent, but at times were a bit limited when it came to the thuggery!!! …that edge counts in finals.

 

[Lana]

 

[The rabbi]

But the difference is that footy is real.

 

[Cursed Cat]

2 poor
1 decent
1 outstanding

But we are into semantics now

He was a hero of mine for a long time there - but that is a fair assessment.

Worth celebrating the fact that his 1989 Finals series was an incredible body of work in itself, and the ol' nutter had plenty of influential games in Finals and in the proverbial Big H+A games.
But the Grand Final record shows the limitations of the individual over that of the better team, no matter how much of a deity or superhero they are.

 

[Cursed Cat]

I think we have lacked that "violent aggression" most Premiership teams have, I think many times we've had the talent, but at times were a bit limited when it came to the thuggery!!! …that edge counts in finals.

Cost us in '08. Hawthorn were talking up a physical game in the lead-up to the GF, Geelong were hosing it down.

In the end a physical battle would have worked to our advantage imo, but we seemed unwilling to play the villain and Hawthorn loved the wide open spaces of the 'G.

Two of our most likely firestarters in Scarlett and Chapman were a curtailed for different reasons; Scarlett had his hands full and Chapman wasn't fully fit.

Cam Mooney has talked about his mindset prior to shanking that crucial set shot in the 2nd quarter. He was already thinking ahead to the fight he was planning to start. But he missed, badly, and we never really explored that ruthless angle.
In a way Hawthorn double-bluffed us in the lead-up by implying the violence to come; we didn't think we needed to get that dirty to win it.

Some of us are old enough to remember the other side of the coi,n when the 1989 Cats lost their focus in the 1st quarter of the Grand Final - again against the Hawks of course of course - by trying to be to physically ''ruthless''. It cost us on the scoreboard.

Those 2009 and 2011 Premiership sides had ruthlessness in spades, but they also had experience, discipline and attention to detail ground into their psyches.

Like many of my vintage, I've watched our club fail 7 times on Grand Final day. Just devastating. Then there's 1993. 2013. 1997. 2024.

I often say that after the 1995 Grand Final I was fairly resigned to the possibility that I wouldn't see a Geelong flag in my lifetime.

4 is pretty good.

Chris Scott makes the valid point that every year is different, that each season should be discretely assessed.
But I dunno; as a supporter sometimes it feels as though there are certain characteristics inherent in the clubs and teams we choose to support that are either difficult to overcome - or sometimes righteously upheld.

 

[iameviljez]

I think we have lacked that "violent aggression" most Premiership teams have, I think many times we've had the talent, but at times were a bit limited when it came to the thuggery!!! …that edge counts in finals.

I think that's a bit overstated in the modern era. The last GF I can remember where "violent" brutality really mattered was Hawthorn's steamrolling of Sydney, but even then it was fairly restrained.

It's not the 1980s, where Brereton basically turned the semi-final by himself by ironing out two opponents.

 

[jim boy]

I think other parts of the club aren't ruthless enough.
Lowther and Corrigan are both seriously underperforming with the AFLW and VFL programs.

Happy now?

 

[Ratcat]

I think that's a bit overstated in the modern era. The last GF I can remember where "violent" brutality really mattered was Hawthorn's steamrolling of Sydney, but even then it was fairly restrained.

It's not the 1980s, where Brereton basically turned the semi-final by himself by ironing out two opponents.

Maybe a bit of overstatement on my part there. Probably should have said, Physicality!

 

[Vdubs]

Cost us in '08. Hawthorn were talking up a physical game in the lead-up to the GF, Geelong were hosing it down.

In the end a physical battle would have worked to our advantage imo, but we seemed unwilling to play the villain and Hawthorn loved the wide open spaces of the 'G.

Two of our most likely firestarters in Scarlett and Chapman were a curtailed for different reasons; Scarlett had his hands full and Chapman wasn't fully fit.

Cam Mooney has talked about his mindset prior to shanking that crucial set shot in the 2nd quarter. He was already thinking ahead to the fight he was planning to start. But he missed, badly, and we never really explored that ruthless angle.
In a way Hawthorn double-bluffed us in the lead-up by implying the violence to come; we didn't think we needed to get that dirty to win it.

Some of us are old enough to remember the other side of the coi,n when the 1989 Cats lost their focus in the 1st quarter of the Grand Final - again against the Hawks of course of course - by trying to be to physically ''ruthless''. It cost us on the scoreboard.

Those 2009 and 2011 Premiership sides had ruthlessness in spades, but they also had experience, discipline and attention to detail ground into their psyches.

Like many of my vintage, I've watched our club fail 7 times on Grand Final day. Just devastating. Then there's 1993. 2013. 1997. 2024.

I often say that after the 1995 Grand Final I was fairly resigned to the possibility that I wouldn't see a Geelong flag in my lifetime.

4 is pretty good.

Chris Scott makes the valid point that every year is different, that each season should be discretely assessed.
But I dunno; as a supporter sometimes it feels as though there are certain characteristics inherent in the clubs and teams we choose to support that are either difficult to overcome - or sometimes righteously upheld.

Agree with ALL of your excellent post, BUT,
-the 07 finals v NM, Pies leading to the GF put that to rest a bit.
-09 was the epitome of ruthlessness, beating a similarly success-starved opponent in StK
-11, beating Hawks and Pies 3x each, and also another September nemesis in WCE, and I am putting aside the losses of 67, 89, 92, 94, 95, 2008
-2022, utterly brilliant and ruthless, icing on the cake, I am actually satiated.
Even if no more flags in my lifetime, which is not unrealistic, I think these years from 07 to 25 have been thearpeutic, unexpected and I am grateful.
As many have said, some of our kids, grandkids have only grown up supporrting a team that is despised because they are always in contention.
That said, Bruhn, Ollie Henry, and Danger are all going to be playing with greater freedom and less burden next year, and will put us right up there again with the rest of our list.
The impact of Bruhn and sequelae on OH and Danger was massive this year, and hopefully we will not need to discuss that again.

 

[Cataholic]

But the difference is that footy is real.

I'll never understand why the Yanks go so damn silly over fake, choreographed 'brawls' with scripted outcomes.

 

[PhatBoy]

Absolutely not. Hard truth

Many won't want to hear this but a team like Hawthorn with an unsociable mentality probably find a way to get it done yesterday

Very late to the reply party here:

But no they wouldn’t have. Because they wouldn’t have.

Being aggressive etc helps.

But being good at football helps more.

Yeah it is an element of the game. It’s an element of any sport. The West Indies cricket side were great partly because they were aggressive and uncompromising. They were great moreso, though, because at any one time they had 4 of the best 6 fast bowlers in the world in one attack, along with one of the best opening batting pairs and the best batsman from 1975-1990, and 2 other world class batsmen.

Being a c**t only makes up for so much a of a gap in class. Hawthorn wouldn’t have won that game. Neither would we if we played like them. We’d have still lost.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Cost us in '08. Hawthorn were talking up a physical game in the lead-up to the GF, Geelong were hosing it down.

In the end a physical battle would have worked to our advantage imo, but we seemed unwilling to play the villain and Hawthorn loved the wide open spaces of the 'G.

Two of our most likely firestarters in Scarlett and Chapman were a curtailed for different reasons; Scarlett had his hands full and Chapman wasn't fully fit.

Cam Mooney has talked about his mindset prior to shanking that crucial set shot in the 2nd quarter. He was already thinking ahead to the fight he was planning to start. But he missed, badly, and we never really explored that ruthless angle.
In a way Hawthorn double-bluffed us in the lead-up by implying the violence to come; we didn't think we needed to get that dirty to win it.

Some of us are old enough to remember the other side of the coi,n when the 1989 Cats lost their focus in the 1st quarter of the Grand Final - again against the Hawks of course of course - by trying to be to physically ''ruthless''. It cost us on the scoreboard.

Those 2009 and 2011 Premiership sides had ruthlessness in spades, but they also had experience, discipline and attention to detail ground into their psyches.

Like many of my vintage, I've watched our club fail 7 times on Grand Final day. Just devastating. Then there's 1993. 2013. 1997. 2024.

I often say that after the 1995 Grand Final I was fairly resigned to the possibility that I wouldn't see a Geelong flag in my lifetime.

4 is pretty good.

Chris Scott makes the valid point that every year is different, that each season should be discretely assessed.
But I dunno; as a supporter sometimes it feels as though there are certain characteristics inherent in the clubs and teams we choose to support that are either difficult to overcome - or sometimes righteously upheld.

Hawks just smashed us tactically on the day.

Crawford spoke of it afterwards how Clarkson instructed them to hug the boundary line to get around geelong who flooded the corridor, and it worked in spades.

They also invented “clarksons cluster” to pressure run and carry which was geelongs game.

The game was won in the coaches box, not with “ physicality”

 

[The rabbi]

I'll never understand why the Yanks go so damn silly over fake, choreographed 'brawls' with scripted outcomes.

Entertainment wrestling is just a soap opera where the cast are on steroids.
Give me MMA or boxing, Muay Thai or the like any day.

 

[The rabbi]

Are we ruthless enough?

Wrong question.
Are we good enough?​

 

[small 4wards]

I'll never understand why the Yanks go so damn silly over fake, choreographed 'brawls' with scripted outcomes.

The same way people enjoy theatre and movies. You know the heroes are probably going to win and they'll do so in an entertaining way with a bit of flair and spectacle. It's just that Americans can go crazy over anything.

 

[CatRiot]

If I went to the club once a week, we would be. Proper rev ups non-stop. Lol

Are we allowed male aggression rev-ups anymore? Or does HR get involved lol

 

[Cataholic]

The same way people enjoy theatre and movies. You know the heroes are probably going to win and they'll do so in an entertaining way with a bit of flair and spectacle. It's just that Americans can go crazy over anything.

I kind of get the correlation, but the acting in wrestling is so goddamn poor

 

[Partridge]

But the difference is that footy is real.

Kurt Angle was as legit as they come. These days he would have gone straight to the UFC, but the money wasn't there at the time.

 

[iameviljez]

If I went to the club once a week, we would be. Proper rev ups non-stop. Lol

Are we allowed male aggression rev-ups anymore? Or does HR get involved lol

More that if it's overdone, people just roll their eyes now.

The Barassi-style stuff went out of fashion pretty quickly at the end of the 70s, and with good reason. Tirades have a shelf life - after a while, you get inured to it.

 

[iameviljez]

The same way people enjoy theatre and movies. You know the heroes are probably going to win and they'll do so in an entertaining way with a bit of flair and spectacle. It's just that Americans can go crazy over anything.

Yeah, exactly. Nobody gets nervous that Superman's going to die, but they still enjoy the film.

 

[The rabbi]

Kurt Angle was as legit as they come. These days he would have gone straight to the UFC, but the money wasn't there at the time.

Maybe. He was never able to prove that on the mat.
All the MMA guys (and women) that have been in both camps started in MMA before entering pro wrestling.
Dan Severn, Brock Lesnar, Randy Couture, Ken Shamrock.
They probably entered pro wrestling because they were done as far as MMA competition was concerned.
The only one that I can recall who went from Pro Wrestling to MMA was C.M. Punk and he did not fare too well at all.

 

[Partridge]

Maybe. He was never able to prove that on the mat.
All the MMA guys (and women) that have been in both camps started in MMA before entering pro wrestling.
Dan Severn, Brock Lesnar, Randy Couture, Ken Shamrock.
They probably entered pro wrestling because they were done as far as MMA competition was concerned.
The only one that I can recall who went from Pro Wrestling to MMA was C.M. Punk and he did not fare too well at all.

He never competed in any form of MMA. So if that's what you mean no.

However in amateur wrestling prior to joining the (then) WWF, he was a:

• 2-time NCAA heavyweight champion
• World champion
• Olympic Gold medalist

In fact, there had been a handful of NCAA champions transition to pro wrestling previously (Jack Brisco and Danny Hodge among others). But there had never been an Olympic Gold medalist prior to Angle. Then when Lesnar joined they had an even rarer pairing of two NCAA champs in the promotion at once.

 

[The rabbi]

He never competed in any form of MMA. So if that's what you mean no.

However in amateur wrestling prior to joining the (then) WWF, he was a:

• 2-time NCAA heavyweight champion
• World champion
• Olympic Gold medalist

In fact, there had been a handful of NCAA champions transition to pro wrestling previously (Jack Brisco and Danny Hodge among others). But there had never been an Olympic Gold medalist prior to Angle. Then when Lesnar joined they had an even rarer pairing of two NCAA champs in the promotion at once.

Yep, but I am unaware of anyone going from Pro wrestling to MMA with the exception of C.M. Punk.
MMA is the proving ground. Although, I am not sure that this would hold true in Japan.

 

[Lana]

Kurt Angle would have been a 80 (minimum) goal a year KPF in the 80s. CM punk was built like Cale Morton

Cale Morton

Age

35

Ht

192cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.9

5star

K

10.8

4star

HB

8.1

5star

M

5.8

5star

T

1.6

4star

CL

1.3

3star

No current season stats available

D

17.0

5star

K

10.2

4star

HB

6.8

5star

M

4.4

4star

T

1.0

3star

sans the gym routine