Article on Richmond Recruiting

[Haggard H]

On the Franklin one you just described Richo to a tee......... do you not rate him ?

Hawthorn traded pick 10 and 37 for Bo Nixon and pick 7 which they used on Jordan Lewis.

So the Hawks got Buddy, Roughie and Lewis and you think your 04 returns are as good as Hawthorn's.

Mate I know it's a Richmond forum but seriously............. get real.

See above apology re the Bo Nixon stuff, but the rest I'll stand by.

And I know what I'm saying re Buddy and how it could be compared to Richo, I just didn't want to say it out loud. Yes, I rate Richo - love him to death. And yes I rate Buddy, very highly, just reckon there'll be a price that comes with him.

 

[Crumden]

Compare Lewis to Foley. Both picked in the same year, though Foley in the rookie draft. Lewis has three more possessions than Foley this year, but Foley is up near the top of the league in clearances. Both are having very good seasons. But Foley has had to take on the mantle as Richmond's number 1 midfielder and now gets tagged most weeks. The senior players playing in the middle with him are either battlers or out of form. While Lewis is probably Hawthorns 3rd or 4th best midfielder behind some experienced players in good form. Not having a go at Lewis because he is a good young player. Just pointing out that it isn't as simple as comparing young players from team A with young players from team B, because it is also very dependent on players around them. Likewise Deledio has copped a lot of attention from the opposition each week and IMO is not played in the midfield anywhere near often enough. That's where he needs to play so the opposition have to start worrying about him and Foley together, not just picking each of them off separately. Hawthorn's rise this year is as much about the players they drafted earlier, like Hodge (2001) and Boyle (2002). whereas those are among the forgotten years of Richmond's drafting.

 

[itsintheblood]

Are you kidding?

You forgot so easily being smashehd by the bombers and adelaide?

Probably because its happened so many times under so many coaches, we cant remember which one got sacked after which beating we received?

Bloody Richmond.

I was being sarchastic. Wall's recruiting whist at richmond led to those massive floggings so I don't think he should be throwing stones.

 

[CJH]

I can be fairly certain that it wasn't the likes of Lynch and Hansen that dragged the West Coast to a premiership... it was more the likes of Judd, Kerr, Cousins and Embley and the rest of their superb midfield.

Also note that Barry Hall had a shocker in last years GF, but Sydney still went within 1 point of winning it.

Having a giant forward is useless if there is nobody to kick the ball to him!

 

[tigertiger]

I think Richmond took one look at Franklin and thought oh no another Richo type, can we do 10 years of another Richo and decided I think not.

Dont get me wrong I love watching the Big fella play pay but he frustrates the hell out of me, leads to far from goal, judges his leads poorly and holds up play to often when he roams up the ground.

 

[CJH]

While we are obviously shyte at the moment, I still think our future looks reasonably bright. It is the lack of relative fitness and strength of our younger players that have left us short in most games. Given another full pre-season, this gap will close.

Also, while we are the worst performing team in terms of wins/losses, it is arguable that both Melbourne and Fremantle have been relatively worse, as both would have had a top 4 finish as a realistic objective. Carlton also have been able to win a few more games, but have been consistently worse for the rest of the season.

This would be why Daniher is already gone and there is more heat on Connolly and Pagan than on Wallace.

 

[PLSC]

I can be fairly certain that it wasn't the likes of Lynch and Hansen that dragged the West Coast to a premiership... it was more the likes of Judd, Kerr, Cousins and Embley and the rest of their superb midfield.

Also note that Barry Hall had a shocker in last years GF, but Sydney still went within 1 point of winning it.

Having a giant forward is useless if there is nobody to kick the ball to him!

bullshit

lynch doesnt play 05 - swans win

lynch plays 06/hall has a shocker/cox best on ground - eagles win

you need a quality midfield but big men win big games

hey haggard time for a nap buddy, hawks boys ripped ya a new one

 

[Goldust]

Walls should know about failing at draft time.

His draft at Richmond yielded:

In 1996 Pat Steinfort (pick 18), Chaffey (35), Matthew Manfield (41), Steven McKee (55), Jason Baldwin (63), Brent Frewen (72) and Daniel Donati (78).

At least Baldwin captained our ressies tot he flag that year.

1995 we offloaded Justin Murphy to the Blues but picked up Robbie Powell, Ben Harrison, Wayne Thornborrow and Ben Holland from other clubs. The draft bore Brad Smith (pick 34), Ben Moore (45), Ewan Thompson (remember him!!!!!) and Michael Raidis (60). His sole success came in the pre-season draft with Darren Gaspar, though we also picked up Tristan Lynch. Probably his biggest recruiting coup came via the father son rule (that is fell in to our laps) with Joel Bowednen that year. We also took Nick Jewell under that rule.

In short, Walls' record was as best meagre!!!

 

[Croat tiger]

Walls should know about failing at draft time.

His draft at Richmond yielded:

In 1996 Pat Steinfort (pick 18), Chaffey (35), Matthew Manfield (41), Steven McKee (55), Jason Baldwin (63), Brent Frewen (72) and Daniel Donati (78).

At least Baldwin captained our ressies tot he flag that year.

1995 we offloaded Justin Murphy to the Blues but picked up Robbie Powell, Ben Harrison, Wayne Thornborrow and Ben Holland from other clubs. The draft bore Brad Smith (pick 34), Ben Moore (45), Ewan Thompson (remember him!!!!!) and Michael Raidis (60). His sole success came in the pre-season draft with Darren Gaspar, though we also picked up Tristan Lynch. Probably his biggest recruiting coup came via the father son rule (that is fell in to our laps) with Joel Bowednen that year. We also took Nick Jewell under that rule.

In short, Walls' record was as best meagre!!!

That was a bad mistake murphy turned out ok.

 

[Mean Muggin]

All the people saying we should get another midfielder instead of Kreuzer should take note of this article...

Carlton won't win another game, so you won't even get Kreuzer!

Richmonds first pick will be number 2.

 

[Goldust]

That was a bad mistake murphy turned out ok.

Still remember his first game. Carved up Wanganeen at Optus Oval.

Kicked four!

Should have been perservered with. Forged out a pretty decent career, including finals appearances.

 

[RECORDS!]

I can be fairly certain that it wasn't the likes of Lynch and Hansen that dragged the West Coast to a premiership... it was more the likes of Judd, Kerr, Cousins and Embley and the rest of their superb midfield.

Also note that Barry Hall had a shocker in last years GF, but Sydney still went within 1 point of winning it.

Having a giant forward is useless if there is nobody to kick the ball to him!

Thank Christ for this post! It was Sam Mitchell and co who tore us a new one on Sunday. Silvagni, Southby and Doull couldn't have stopped the forward line the way the ball was coming in.

 

[Big Punt]

In today's game its midfield depth that counts. Good quality KPP's are important, but less so.

 

[rado]

Give me a break. Walls has trotted out this exact same article at least twice this season. As for suggesting we should have taken Roughead over Deledio, what a crock. And that is the only way we would have got Roughead! If Walls had actually seen the game, he would have seen that we got absolutely smashed in the second half by Hawthorns midfield. The reason Hawthorn had so many more marks inside their 50 was because the ball went in there so many more times.

Walls keeps trotting out the line that Deledio hasn't finished in our top ten in the B&F in his first two years!!! That is a nonsensical standard to judge a player who was drafted very young and won the Rising Star in his first season. If he doesn't finish top 5 this year (even missing 4 games) it will say more about our B&F voting system than Deledio's performance. Deledio is already a very good player and will get even better. But its hard to soar like an Eagle when you're surrounded by Turkeys.

I agree fully. Deledio is an absolute star. Imagine if he played at West Coast? He would be getting 35 possies a week. This is also the same with Tambling. I believe he would be a star already if he was surronded by players like Judd, Kerr and Cox instead of guys like Kane Johnson and Greg Tivendale

And also with Hawthorn, people like Xavier Ellis and Jarryd Roughead aren't winning them games. It's the older players such as Hodge, Mitchell, Bateman, Crawford and Smith who are winning them games. They are winning the ball and kicking pinpoint passes into players like roughead and franklin. Our equivalent players that should be winning us games are Johnson, Hall, Knobel, Tivendale, Brown, Richardson and Simmonds. I know which group I'd rather

 

[rado]

bullshit

lynch doesnt play 05 - swans win

lynch plays 06/hall has a shocker/cox best on ground - eagles win

you need a quality midfield but big men win big games

hey haggard time for a nap buddy, hawks boys ripped ya a new one

And who won the Norm Smith medal both those years??
Judd and Embley

 

[tugga]

Still remember his first game. Carved up Wanganeen at Optus Oval.

Kicked four!

Should have been perservered with. Forged out a pretty decent career, including finals appearances.

Was actually five.

 

[folester41]

if only he was terry the fortune teller...

 

[jeff99_Au]

whats wrong with everyone here for f*ck sake sure tambling hasn't stood up the the two hawks talls. he was injuried for a while people compair poor tambling an franklin all the time they are different players different postion. tambling will be great an elite midfielder franklin may become an great forward. i would rather tambling we have lots of young forwards still coming up an lids,tambling in the midfeild who i believe are two of our best kickers in the midfeild that might just hit them on the chest.

we pick up tambling because we needed speed an youth we are building a midfeild for the furture a group that have 10+ season together.

foley,lids,tambling,polo,edwards, either white or howat. with patty in ruck

we will have an elite midfeild an everyone will be saying we love tambling we love foley etc an we will have hughes an the other down forward l\kicking goals because of our fast pace midfeild.

look at the bigger picture the future.

we could have the best forwards in the game but with a midfeild that can move the ball fast ab kick straight it wouldn't matter

 

[DannyJ]

Thanks Crum and a couple of others. Good to see at least some levelheadedness. Until the last five weeks Tambling, as ordinary as he's been, would have been ahead of Roughead in output and development. Roughead has been dropped two or three times this year for poor form, and has only just clicked. It was just classic timing that Tambling was going to have his worst game when we played the Hawks, and that Roughead would have a good one.

As for Franklin, he's going to be an unreliable flake throughout his career. His best will be as good as you'll see, then he'll go missing for two or three weeks, play an ordinary one, a poor one, and then another blinder. The Mark Waugh of footy.

As for Walls rating our kids out of ten, he should have done the same with the Hawks players. Lids would have to be above Franklin, if only slightly and due to consistency, Pattison would be ahead of Roughead if judged over this full season, Polo would be at least the equivalent of Lewis.

Tambling is so-so, but better than Matt Little or Thomas Murphy who both look like it might not ever happen for them - like Danny Meyer.

Overall I reckon our '04 draft returns are as good as Hawthorn's. Especially if you consider they traded picks 10 and 37 for Bo Nixon from Collingwood.

Hahahahahahaha

That would be up there for worst post of the year!

 

[WOTTAMACHINE]

Compare Lewis to Foley. Both picked in the same year, though Foley in the rookie draft. Lewis has three more possessions than Foley this year, but Foley is up near the top of the league in clearances. Both are having very good seasons. But Foley has had to take on the mantle as Richmond's number 1 midfielder and now gets tagged most weeks. The senior players playing in the middle with him are either battlers or out of form. While Lewis is probably Hawthorns 3rd or 4th best midfielder behind some experienced players in good form. Not having a go at Lewis because he is a good young player. Just pointing out that it isn't as simple as comparing young players from team A with young players from team B, because it is also very dependent on players around them. Likewise Deledio has copped a lot of attention from the opposition each week and IMO is not played in the midfield anywhere near often enough. That's where he needs to play so the opposition have to start worrying about him and Foley together, not just picking each of them off separately. Hawthorn's rise this year is as much about the players they drafted earlier, like Hodge (2001) and Boyle (2002). whereas those are among the forgotten years of Richmond's drafting.

Get your facts right champ!!
Foley was picked up in the 2003 rookie draft at pick 4..
Lewis was picked in the 2004 national draft pick 7..
If you want to start making comparisons hows this one!!
2005 rookie draft, tigers picked up Cameron Howat with pick 36..
2005 rookie draft, hawks picked up Ben "mighty mouse" McGlynn with pick 55..
I dont think I should post any more on here, I have made my point to you, get your facts right then post your jibberish on here..
PS. McGlynn will be 10 times the footballer Foley will be..

 

[Crumden]

Get your facts right champ!!
Foley was picked up in the 2003 rookie draft at pick 4..
Lewis was picked in the 2004 national draft pick 7..
If you want to start making comparisons hows this one!!
2005 rookie draft, tigers picked up Cameron Howat with pick 36..
2005 rookie draft, hawks picked up Ben "mighty mouse" McGlynn with pick 55..
I dont think I should post any more on here, I have made my point to you, get your facts right then post your jibberish on here..
PS. McGlynn will be 10 times the footballer Foley will be..

Maybe I got that wrong on Foley. He was added to the senior list in 2005. Nevertheless, they are both 21 and everything else I said was spot on (you obviously agree because you didn't debate any of it).

The comparison of Howat and McGlynn is spot on . They both look good in a winning outfit but neither will cut the mustard long term.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

The comparison of Howat and McGlynn is spot on . They both look good in a winning outfit but neither will cut the mustard long term.

No, the difference here is that Ben McGlynn, through his work ethic and hunger is one of the very good young kids that are now elevating Hawthorn towards a premiership. He is one of the guys that has turned a losing outfit into a winning one.

It is a cultural thing and right at the moment, Richmond people are too accepting of mediocrity and too forgiving of the fools that have put you in this position. This is best indicated by those in this very thread that still rate Tambling and Deledio ahead of Franklin and Roughead making such comments that Roughead will level out to be a "Ben Holland type" and Franklin being a "flake." These are the people that you want to keep the hell away from your football club because every day that you people continue to believe that you are tracking the right path is just another day further away you travel from achieveing your long term goals. Denigrating those that do the job properly will not serve any worthwhile purpose. It is wise to learn from those that are successful. With a little more education and better people involved in your football club, Richmond can be the team that drafts the "next Franklin."

Hawthorn had to eat humble pie a few years ago when we had idiots running our football department and I would strongly suggest that Richmond do the same. Richmond needs to learn from those that are having success rather than wallow in the drivel that I am reading in this thread.

 

[astro_toby]

Easy to pick and choose your stats. In 2003 we picked up Raines at 76, Tuck at 73 and, dare I risk jinxing his new found form, Jackson at 53. Hawthorn used their first pick on Harry Miller. Hey, we're geniuses!

yeah, but our first choice's have been pathetic schulz, JON, Tambling, Meyer, Gilmour, Fiora - have all been well below par of the pick we used on them. even pattison is questionable - despite how much i like the guy - he hasnt got the skills of a first rounder.

our use of later picks have never been questioned - we are good at finding decent 100-150 game players with our later picks - but at the same time, we only end up finding decent players with our first round picks

 

[WOTTAMACHINE]

Maybe I got that wrong on Foley. He was added to the senior list in 2005. Nevertheless, they are both 21 and everything else I said was spot on (you obviously agree because you didn't debate any of it).

The comparison of Howat and McGlynn is spot on . They both look good in a winning outfit but neither will cut the mustard long term.

Foley is a gun player, I rate him, but you cant really compare him with Jordan Lewis.. Foley gives you run through the middle, Lewis is the player that wins the hard ball and dishes it out to our runners, bateman and co.. Two different players.. As for who's better, everyone has their opinion.. I probably rate Foley before Lewis..
As for McGlynn, this kid is going cut the mustard and also lick the cream in the long term, have you watched this kid play? Obviously not much.. I have huge respect for players that worry about their safety 2nd.. 1st priority is to win the ball.. He is one of the many reasons why we are flying this year, he will be in our top 10 by years end..
I'll be honest if Richmond offered us Lids for mighty mouse in a trade (hypothetically speaking) I would be filthy with the club.. McGlynn is the star of now and for many years to come..

 

[Big Punt]

Foley is a gun player, I rate him, but you cant really compare him with Jordan Lewis.. Foley gives you run through the middle, Lewis is the player that wins the hard ball and dishes it out to our runners, bateman and co.. Two different players.. As for who's better, everyone has their opinion.. I probably rate Foley before Lewis..
As for McGlynn, this kid is going cut the mustard and also lick the cream in the long term, have you watched this kid play? Obviously not much.. I have huge respect for players that worry about their safety 2nd.. 1st priority is to win the ball.. He is one of the many reasons why we are flying this year, he will be in our top 10 by years end..
I'll be honest if Richmond offered us Lids for mighty mouse in a trade (hypothetically speaking) I would be filthy with the club.. McGlynn is the star of now and for many years to come..

Foley does both.