No Oppo Supporters ASADA/WADA/Essendon* Discussion (Swans Posters Only)

[bedford]

Mike Sheahan has the right idea, let me know when its finally over. Its bullshit to hear and read about this whole sorry saga. The Herald -Sun has 8 pages today, who cares

 

[RW]

Since this issue is not going to go away, I thought I'd take the opportunity to move these posts and leave the other thread to talk about footy.

 

[bedford]

Since this issue is not going to go away, I thought I'd take the opportunity to move these posts and leave the other thread to talk about footy.

Good , then I won't have to see it

 

[The King!]

The players were found not guilty due to a lack of evidence, due to Dank and or Essendon recording what they gave very irresponsibly and or incompetently. It's intellectually dishonest of Hird to claim that the players were comprehensively found to be not guilty of having been injected with TB4. The tribunal didn't consider that question because of the lack of evidence and recording in determining that it was indeed TB4 that Alavi received from Charter, compounded for Dank and then gave to Dank to use.

Agree, never found not guilty as you say they didnt look at the question.

They couldnt link the drugs from China and being ordered to being at the Essendon football club due to the lack of records that apparently Essendon has supplied to someone else who lost it

 

[The King!]

essendon mates reply regarding interview

this is word for word

Hird just answered some questions poorly.



Get mcididiot in there he would make more of a fool of himself.

To be honest….the case isn’t hirds, so he doesn’t need to be 100% across it he is just the coach.

Up to players lawyers now.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

The bar set was so high by the tribunal that only a confession or someone breaking rank would of been needed to find them guilty.

Basically it was setup in a way the players were never going to be found guilty.

At least with CAS the decision will be absolutely final.

 

[vonn]

The bar set was so high by the tribunal that only a confession or someone breaking rank would of been needed to find them guilty.

Basically it was setup in a way the players were never going to be found guilty.

At least with CAS the decision will be absolutely final.

Can't imagine WADA would appeal if they didn't have a strong case. Hope Essendon get done.

Wonder what the larger ramifications of this on the AFL will be. Botched rep, wonder if sponsorship etc. would take a dip. Broadcast deal would be worth less too.

 

[RW]

As much as I want to see drug cheating punished, I am not sure what evidence WADA can come up with that isn't already there, given it has now been over 2 years and circumstantial evidence will still make up a big part of their case in the absence of positive drug tests.

 

[vonn]

As much as I want to see drug cheating punished, I am not sure what evidence WADA can come up with that isn't already there, given it has now been over 2 years and circumstantial evidence will still make up a big part of their case in the absence of positive drug tests.

I don't think they need to come up with new evidence. The evidence was already damning enough and sufficient for a guilty verdict in any neutral setting... And we all know how neutral the AFL Tribunal are.

 

[RW]

We're still just speculating though, without being in possession of all the facts it looks pretty bad, but even if you can answer the first two questions that were thrown out by ASADA (about the substances from China that Alavi was compounding and then gave to Dank), I don't know if they have enough evidence to get over the line on TB4. I still think there's a 50/50 chance they'll get off.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

As much as I want to see drug cheating punished, I am not sure what evidence WADA can come up with that isn't already there, given it has now been over 2 years and circumstantial evidence will still make up a big part of their case in the absence of positive drug tests.

Basically if they can't compel Charter or Dank to give evidence then i can't see anything either.

 

[The King!]

We're still just speculating though, without being in possession of all the facts it looks pretty bad, but even if you can answer the first two questions that were thrown out by ASADA (about the substances from China that Alavi was compounding and then gave to Dank), I don't know if they have enough evidence to get over the line on TB4. I still think there's a 50/50 chance they'll get off.

I think they will still be found "not guilty" personally

 

[Lakeside Swan]

Yeah I saw that, they named them but apparently they weren't supposed to. I wouldn't personally.

Does it really matter? We can guess who they are based on who was on the list at the time. I believe that only one player, can't remember his name, has confirmed that he refused to take the injections.

 

[Number37]

As much as I want to see drug cheating punished, I am not sure what evidence WADA can come up with that isn't already there, given it has now been over 2 years and circumstantial evidence will still make up a big part of their case in the absence of positive drug tests.

The procedural rules are a little different. I heard today that as part of the CAS process WADA can ask Essendon for documents, if Essendon can't produce documents they will need to provide an adequate explanation. WADA can point to standard practice by AFL clubs on record keeping for supplement programs and ask Essendon to explain any deviation from standard practice.

 

[Lakeside Swan]

Basically if they can't compel Charter or Dank to give evidence then i can't see anything either.

I agree. Essendon kept no record (or if they did they destroyed them), so proving what they took is a big issue.

 

[Number37]

I think they will still be found "not guilty" personally

I think so too.

 

[Millky95]

This is all a hunk of shit to be quite honest. The fact the Bombers didn't keep records of what was being injected into players should be enough to close the club down or sack every single person involved.

 

[The King!]

Two things annoy me

1- even in a worse case scenario the players are reasonably victimised here, but I feel essendon plays on the impact on players for sympathy

2- if essendon are shit its asada, its distraction, its not just they arent good

 

[The King!]

Bomber saw a spreadsheet

With names, stuff on it


WADA cancel it all its all ok

 

[AlibiMonday]

I'm probably going to mess some of this up but here goes.

The discussion was revolving around Hird maintaining that the players were innocent, were proven "comprehensively" to have done nothing wrong by the AFL tribunal. Gerard pretty steadfastly said "well no, that's not right". Gerard refuted it pretty easily by saying something to the effect of "well, that question was never actually asked of the tribunal because the first two questions (regarding the substances from China that Alavi was compounding and then given to Dank) were thrown out because of a lack of evidence due to ridiculous record-keeping.

Hird countered with a pretty superficial and lazy "well, were they found guilty or not?", to which Gerard argued in a similar fashion to the above, ie. your club and Dank have been so duplicitous or incompetent that we don't have any records to find you guilty of. After this Hird backed off and said something to the effect of "oh well, I believe they will be found innocent again in the future".

On this topic, Gerard asked Hird how he can be so confident of Essendon's lack of wrongdoing when the records were so poorly kept. Hird suggested he had seen records of another drug (cannot remember its name, definitely not TB4) that was purchased and given to the players and did not see any records of TB4. Gerard maintained a pretty inquisitive tone regarding the lack of records kept by the club.

Gerard then moved on to how Hird, as a parent himself, would feel if his children could not be told by their football club what substance they were given. Hird batted this away by saying he was happy with it because the medical team that had spoken to the players had been confident that despite not knowing exactly what was given, there was no reason to think that something might go wrong with a player's health...despite these drugs not being allowed for human use at the time.

Finally, Gerard asked Hird if he believed he still felt, in light of all that has gone on, that he remains the right person to coach the club. Hird suggested that was for the players to decide and earlier today they told him that, indeed, they wanted him to coach them harder than every before from now on. He asked Hird if he had any "compunction" (which I had to look up, good word though) that prevented him from thinking he was the man for the job. Obviously, Hird said no he did not and that it wasn't about him. Of course it isn't.

All the while, Mark Robinson sat with his legs crossed, sucking on a lolipop, waiting for the adults to let him talk. When they did, he called Hird "Jim". That's about all he contributed.

Wow! Might return to 360 again. I turned it off as soon as Gerard completely turncoated and fully supportered Essendon after his AOD speech.

As for Robbo - the quicker the jettison that guy away from the media, the better.

 

[The King!]

Wow! Might return to 360 again. I turned it off as soon as Gerard completely turncoated and fully supportered Essendon after his AOD speech.

As for Robbo - the quicker the jettison that guy away from the media, the better.

Gerrard let robbo throw a few softballs then he could not stand any more

 

[Jack Lord]

Does it really matter? We can guess who they are based on who was on the list at the time. I believe that only one player, can't remember his name, has confirmed that he refused to take the injections.

David Zhaharakis

 

[The King!]

 

[The Swans Blog]

To be honest I was really surprised that the AFL tribunal wasn't comfortably satisfied that a chain of possession couldn't be determined, at least to their standards. Pundits and commentators claim it to be a 'dumpster' full of circumstantial evidence. The evidence was damning. It included Dank asking for TB4, it included Shane Carter sourcing it, asking for confirmation, getting confirmation from Dank, then importing it. There's evidence through email and sms that he took the imported substance from China to that compounding chemist. He admits that he compounded TB4 and it was given to Dank.

I don't know maybe the tribunal determined that the witnesses weren't of any believable standard and ignored their testimony. If that's the case then those witnesses need to be prosecuted for purgery. Either they lied or they didn't.

I just couldn't figure out having read a good portion of the evidence brief that was made available, including text messages and emails, how the tribunal could have found insufficient evidence of a breach. USADA didn't even have a positive doping test on Armstrong, but had testimony and a 'dumpster' full of circumstantial evidence that they used to prosecute him. Armstrong came out afterwards and admitted to doping.

The decision was a lot of "it could have been, it probably was, but we aren't comfortably satisfied that it definitely was", even though Shane Carter testified that it definitely was.

Zzzz... Looking forward to CAS ripping the AFL & Essendon scumbags a new anus. Hopefully Gil will fall on his ****ing sword after this cluster****.

 

[The King!]

They wouldnt take anything about Dank, charters or Avali or whoever he is without testimony from another to back it up