Aussie Rules International

[GoalFlags]

Most of this thread has come from a private letter to ARI from the AFL. If you are wanting us to concentrate "on the game" don't put private letters on a public forum that you don't want us to talk about.

I would rather hear about news of schools playing Aussie Rules from ARI rather than letters from the AFL that were never meant to have a public forum.

I'm not associated with any BARFL club. Would it make a difference if I was?

 

[Belicose]

As for that last comment about a schools competition in the UK to rival Victoria's, can I have some of what you're on? (and I mean no disrespect to Brian there because I doubt anyone could bring about that change of sporting cultures!).

Yup. Snowflake. Chance. Hell.

With a great deal of effort, Sydney/Canberra may be a better yardstick. But if it outdoes Victoria, then we can expect a UK squad good enough to take on the AFL within 20 yrs, and that just aint gonna happen.

Still, hyperbole aside, any sudden rise of locals playing the game can only be a good thing. I'd like to see a competitive UK side, so down the track it can be another sport for us to beat them at.

 

[brentonb]

guys you don't get it, the NSW government is not backing aussie rules in Schools. like the British are in England, in a city that has a population the size of both Sydney, Melbourne and possibly Brisbane put together it may well evolve a huge junior schools comp and hopefully oneday will spring a senior comp, although it may very well go the way of Soccer in australia, but who knows
The beuty of Aussie Rules in the Uk is that to most kids it is new, Sydney Schools dont take it up because it is widley considered a rival code beleive me I have lived in all three cities

 

[clarkey]

Goalflags, the response from the AFL was always going to be posted on this forum, positive or negative.

Are you going to reveal your name, or are you quite content to hurl your regular anonymous insults from the couch?

 

[monnersfan]

guys you don't get it, the NSW government is not backing aussie rules in Schools. like the British are in England, in a city that has a population the size of both Sydney, Melbourne and possibly Brisbane put together it may well evolve a huge junior schools comp and hopefully oneday will spring a senior comp, although it may very well go the way of Soccer in australia, but who knows
The beuty of Aussie Rules in the Uk is that to most kids it is new, Sydney Schools dont take it up because it is widley considered a rival code beleive me I have lived in all three cities

This is somewhat shifting the focus of this thread - I've already posted my opinion on the issue of making public that letter - but I'm surprised that brentonb argues for footy development in London over Sydney.

Whilst I acknowledge the NSW government isn't backing Aussie Rules in the school system, Sydney does have 116 primary schools involved in AFL competitions lasting 6 weeks or more per year, and 25 secondary schools involved in AFL competitions of at least that length. While these are not overwhelming numbers, they are nucleii from which future growth in the Sydney market can build upon. That such numbers of schools have become involved without NSW government backing is encouraging, as it indicates that Aussie Rules can penetrate Sydney without outside assistance - or even with assistance being given to other codes.

Aussie Rules in the UK is in a very different situation. Involving a handful of schools is an admirable task, and one which ARUK can be commended for, but the long-term prospect for the code's growth in London to the level currently seen in Sydney is low. Britain is a veritable vacuum where professional AFL is concerned, and the lack of top level media coverage for the sport - combined with a paucity of reserves in which the sport can be played - will always relegate Aussie Rules down the priority list of most who participate in school programs. The UK Government is backing Aussie Rules in schools for the same reasons that the Victorian system promotes baseball, soccer and basketball in physical education classes in Victorian schools. Most students are unfamiliar to these sports, and so they become accessible to all - but participation in school baseball, soccer & basketball programs hasn't stimulated significant growth in the number of social participants in these sports either at junior or senior levels.

Aussie Rules participants in Sydney schools are mostly involved outside of school hours, and it is up for debate how many of students participate because the sports has some media profile - however small - across the city. It is too early to predict what will happen in London (which is at a similar level of school development as Rugby League in Melbourne - one or two schools), but I would be astounded if in 20 years it was anywhere near NSW participation, with or without government assistance.

> As far as stats go, the AFL hada press release last week on the NSW situation. Check out this article from afl.com.au.

 

[Dingo]

Goalflags, the response from the AFL was always going to be posted on this forum, positive or negative.

I agree with goalflags that it was a negative step in posting the AFL letter... You're trying to build bridges not burn them. If you want to have some recognition in the eyes of the AFL its surely better to keep them happy and conform to their requests!!!

I'm not criticising you - this is just my opinion.

 

[VikingSven]

...some recognition in the eyes of the AFL...

Publishing the letter did bring a disappointing and frustrating close to the matter concerning cooperation with the AFL, and in one way making it public has put the issue beyond doubt for all who read these threads and who will wonder at some point "Why don't ARI get support from the AFL?".

So "Why doesn't the AFL - the global authority of the game & the keeper of the code - do more to support the growth of international footy it it chooses not to recognise other footballing bodies similar to ARI?" I suppose the obvious answer is that it can't do much more than it currently is - atleast not with the current resources in place.

But the other not so obvious answer is that it will never approve of any third party footballing bodies and the notion "nothing happens in footy without the AFL" more or less summarises their anti-competitive stance. Their justification? These bodies simply "cause confusion" and there is "no need for a duplication in role" - which was the stick beaten over the head of the IAFC every time. Now, through restructuring and a willingness to conform to the AFL's criteria, ARI has been formed for a very different purpose which it is hoped will help maintain the growth of the game and seek new opportunities to assist that growth. Without doubt, it is massive job and perhaps too much to expect the AFL to conduct alone.

So who else is there beside the AFL? The Governments? In many countries programs are starting to be put in place to combat youth social and health issues and there is perhaps where the greatest opportunities to date lie. ARUK through the auspices of Sport England have in the last few months made impressive strides in the British schools program and, upon reading the articles and discussions, I have no doubt that this is the tip of the iceberg there. Though, I would readily admit that it will be a distant day from this current point in time where an UK schools program exceeds that of any state schools programs in Australia - it's not impossible, but it surely won't be happening in the near future.

Even with technological advances in recent times, the world is still a pretty big place and the AFL, while admirable in the resources it does allocate towards the international game (to the select countries who do get support at the end of the day), it is a business and unfortunately in international footy there is very little short- to long-term profit. I suppose it has much important and more urgent priorities in the domestic game that need both more attention (and even more finances).

I put forward this for thought: Let ARI work with these youth programs and developing footy-nations. Give them recognition and support and let them continue cooperating with both government and private resources in taking our great game to the rest of the world. In the end, if it is the development and playing of our great game worldwide is foremost in our visions and ambitions, then let not politics, mistrust or self-interest turn us away from achieving our goals.

In summary, I think one can safely conclude from this letter (and the way it came about) that cooperation and recognition between ARI and the AFL is not going to happen anytime soon.. atleast not with this current administration (even though the door will always remain open). Regrettably, there isn't much more one can do about it. Life must go on.

At some point in time, one has to stop trying to appease and simply get on with the job at hand. And that point in time seems to be now.

Yours in International Footy,

VS

 

[*Crash*]

If you want footy to happen the AFL is not a necessary ingredient. You just go and do it. Thats what thousands of clubs have done over the last 100-odd years. The AFL will not stop you in any way.

What the AFL can provide is money, experience and the support of personnel and experience. But do you need them to get a team happening? No. Do you need them to get a league happening? No. Do you need them to get a national competition going? No. There are some obvious benefits of having them in your corner. So yeah if there is a mutual keeness to work together great. But if they are not interested in you does it matter? Get on with your footy and things (and administrations) can change a lot in a couple of years.
There are plenty of clubs around Australia that have never, and will never recieve a dollar from the AFL, and you know what they couldnt care less.

So don't make such a big deal out of whether you have the AFL in your corner. Things such as having a pathways for juniors to advance to play AFL footy can still come about in your own country. Believe me AFL clubs themselves will always look for the best players regardless of whether you are associated with the AFL or not (just look at Hurling players being recruited).

It is a charity mentality, and if you let it worry you at all then it will just hold you back.

 

[clarkey]

I don't think anyone at ARI is losing too much sleep over the AFL. There is a lifetime of work to be done over here and we will just get on with it.

 

[Peter P]

Clarkey and Sven, as part of not losing too much sleep and just getting on with it - take note of the opinions of others here. It would be better to withdraw the AFL logo and the letter here - because if nothing else it doesn't reflect well on ARI towards its potential partners in the UK to broadcast the conflict with the Keeper of the Code.

The AFL would have the position of once bitten twice shy, after the history with the IAFC (you guys no doubt feel similar). Best to give things time and build on good work for a few years. Which in terms of making footy a major British sport - after one good season it is extremely early days at the moment to make any wild claims.

There's plenty of praise on this thread for getting the sport onto school curricula etc and fostering a much needed Touch Aussie Rules format as a social game for adults. Just get on with it - and be diplomatic.

 

[Cudaman]

If you want footy to happen the AFL is not a necessary ingredient. You just go and do it. Thats what thousands of clubs have done over the last 100-odd years. The AFL will not stop you in any way.

What the AFL can provide is money, experience and the support of personnel and experience. But do you need them to get a team happening? No. Do you need them to get a league happening? No. Do you need them to get a national competition going? No. There are some obvious benefits of having them in your corner. So yeah if there is a mutual keeness to work together great. But if they are not interested in you does it matter? Get on with your footy and things (and administrations) can change a lot in a couple of years.
There are plenty of clubs around Australia that have never, and will never recieve a dollar from the AFL, and you know what they couldnt care less.

So don't make such a big deal out of whether you have the AFL in your corner. Things such as having a pathways for juniors to advance to play AFL footy can still come about in your own country. Believe me AFL clubs themselves will always look for the best players regardless of whether you are associated with the AFL or not (just look at Hurling players being recruited).

It is a charity mentality, and if you let it worry you at all then it will just hold you back.

Exactly - read the threads at the top of this board which have been arguing this for a long time.....

The random letter generator for the ultimate rule of Australian football just does not work -lets be honest is the latest ARFL (whatever) any different to the IAFC/FACI/AFCI....etc. It does some great work when it is not trying to get up the AFL's nose or trying to put everbody's elses nose out of joint.

And come on Viking Sven.....
" So "Why doesn't the AFL - the global authority of the game & the keeper of the code - do more to support the growth of international footy it it chooses not to recognise other footballing bodies similar to ARI?" I suppose the obvious answer is that it can't do much more than it currently is - atleast not with the current resources in place. " ........

Who are the other "footballing bodies similar to ARI" the AFL is not recognising? Just name one!

Let us call a spade a spade and get over it. Clarkey (or is there some other elected officials???? in the newly formed ahfi) has done and continues to do some fantastic and unbelievable work, but has made a rod for his own back with the AFL and many other folk in the international community - but you expect everyone to kiss and make up by changing the acronym???? I don't think so.....

 

[clarkey]

Cudaman, if you had taken the time to read through the ARI website you would not have submitted such an ignorant post.

The formation of ARI is much more than just a name changing exercise. It was and is a genuine attempt to work with the AFL.

That is why the AFL's response is so disappointing.

But life goes on and there is much to do. And if you don't agree with what we are trying to accomplish (i.e. a united international footy community), that's your call.

 

[Alphabet Man]

what was the email you sent to the AFL, clarkey?

to be honest, if you didn't highlight it to them, they'd have never noticed there logo on it

 

[SoCalled]

Just to add a bit of normality to this one. Using a logo from another site should always be done with the approval of the owners of that logo. For example we will probably link bigfooty.com in our links database (along with the ARI for that matter) but would first ask permission to use the logo from here before going ahead and taking a copy of it.

a) it's the polite thing to do.

b) it gives the logo owner the opportunity to insist on their terms and conditions.

We would expect the same from anyone using our logo, (once the graphics people get off their freckles and finish it).

The AFL logo has value in and of itself. No wonder those guys are protective towards it.

 

[clarkey]

Some interesting comments but a quick reminder that this thread is not about logos. As the first post on the thread states:

"I am pleased to announce the creation of a new body to assist the growth and development of the world's greatest game – Aussie Rules International (ARI).

We believe it is time to move on from past differences and all work together in future to achieve a common goal – the recognition of our great game as a fully-fledged and recognised international sport.

We look forward to working with all stakeholders who share the same sentiments.

The ARI website can be found at http://www.aussierulesinternational.com."

If you wish to debate the ins and outs of logos, please start a new thread.

 

[Matt_TY]

But Clarkey, it's still in the scope of this topic - people are merely debating the specifics of the philosophy of "working together with everyone" as it related to the issue that has arisen and you yourself raised in the topic.

 

[Mobbs]

But whether or not you agree with the content of the letter, am I alone in thinking it is a little poor form on Clarkey's part to immediately make public a letter from the AFL to ARI? I wonder how Simon Lethlean feels about his letter appearing on the internet so soon.

Simon probably feels great. By his prose he's obviously very proud of his relationship with the league and if he has the opportunity to show the interested parties how accessible, nay, keen, the AFL are to offer thumbs up for such ventures as ARI, then he would jump at the chance. I know I would.

Its a great opportunity to show the AFL in a good light as an institution that's all about fair and ethical interaction with the community over which it is such a benevolent and gracious monarch.

I for one certainly feel a lot better about the AFL, after their Galaxy / Ahern / Bruce Stadium atrocities, to see that they nowadays have learnt from their past crimes and have moved on into a new era of working with the football proles.

Clarkey was so delighted to hear that the AFL proved this communicative and accessible, that he wanted to help promote them as the great institution they wish to be seen as. Without a Mission Statement on hand, I guess a form letter detailing the AFL stance works just as well to beautify the institution.

 

[Ozzy]

I'm coming into this discussion slightly late, but I've been reading the messages with interest and a wry smile!

It is blatantly obvious that Clarkey will never learn. As for the "palm of peace", I'm not sure Clarkey even understands the phrase! The IAFC has been a thorn in the AFL's side for many years to the point that the relationship was probably NEVER going to get back on track. So the idea that the ARI is a fresh start is nonsense. It's simply a rebranding exercise in order to fool everyone that there's a new International body, which there isn't. In fact, I would argue that the IAFC has been a thorn in other organisations sides for years too!

As has been stated, the development of the game internationally has been happening for years, and without the help of the IAFC or anyone else really. The AFL have provided limited funding, but on the whole, international leagues have developed through the hard work and passion of the people in the respective countries. Why do we need the IAFC or the ARI? Why do we need Clarkey?
The British Aussie Rules league has been running for 15 years without ANY help from Clarkey - in fact they've spend several years trying to deflect Clarkey and his tactics. And instead of Clarkey assisting with the development of the game in the UK, he's decided to setup what could be conceived as a rival league. Now that's constructive!!

And the contact address on the ARI website is actually the official address of Sport England, so I'm sure they would have something to say about that!

 

[clarkey]

Welcome to the forum Ozzy. Yet again another person making their very first post on BigFooty.

You are entitled to your rant, but the facts speak for themselves. ARI has been set up as a purley development body (it is not an international body) and we are very busy at the moment.

Aussie Rules UK has been set up to promote Aussie Rules in the school system, so I am at a total loss as to how it could be perceived as a rival league to the BARFL.

In regards to Sport England, they have provided us with office space and fantastic support, as the UK government is keen to support sports such as Aussie Rules that get kids off the couch and exercising.

So feel free to rant and rave Ozzy, but it's blatantly obvious that you have no idea.

 

[Ozzy]

Don't kid yourself or anyone else on this board that you have the great game of Aussie Rules at heart. You're only interested in your own development.

I have been involved in playing and organising footy in the UK since 1990, so you have no idea. If you did, you would appreciate the efforts that people put into running the game in the UK, and perhaps assist where necessary, instead of constantly throwing mud at the game and hoping some of it sticks. You are a tyrant in the game and you will never get on with the AFL, as can be seen from your previous exploits. Your actions do nothing but undermine the efforts of the people in the UK. I could post a few stories about your actions on this board that would amaze people. Like your approach to Australia House representing Aussie Rules in the UK?! This had to be rebuked by the AFL!

As I say, tyrant! You are really not welcome. You're only in bed with Sport England to see how much money you can get! Do you have an official contact there that I could approach requesting information on their level of support for Aussie Rules in the UK?? Doubt it.....

 

[VikingSven]

Ozzy,

I happen to know Brian Clarke very well and have no doubt that he does have the best for International Footy at heart. I also know that it is simply too easy to create an account, login and post a message or two with claims that I could best sum up as "imaginative" - I believe the practice is called "Trolling".

Perhaps if you could PM your contact details to me and I'll make sure any of your reasonable requests for information about ARUK are responded to.

 

[Ozzy]

Ozzy,

I happen to know Brian Clarke very well and have no doubt that he does have the best for International Footy at heart. I also know that it is simply too easy to create an account, login and post a message or two with claims that I could best sum up as "imaginative" - I believe the practice is called "Trolling".

Perhaps if you could PM your contact details to me and I'll make sure any of your reasonable requests for information about ARUK are responded to.

Oh dear, another person that has been brain-washed into thinking Clarkey does a great job. If only you knew the half of it ....

And please do not accuse me of being "imaginative", which is something I only dream of being! I have experienced and have evidence of how rude and insulting Clarkey can be to those running the game in the UK - I wouldn't dream of producing that on this board, unlike the public airing of a private matter between the AFL and ARI by him!

 

[Mobbs]

Oh dear, another person that has been brain-washed into thinking Clarkey does a great job. If only you knew the half of it ....

And please do not accuse me of being "imaginative", which is something I only dream of being! I have experienced and have evidence of how rude and insulting Clarkey can be to those running the game in the UK - I wouldn't dream of producing that on this board, unlike the public airing of a private matter between the AFL and ARI by him!

Yeah Sven, geeze the nerve of you. I happen to have utterly no idea of who Ozzy is, and therefore can assure you he must obviously be of impeccable repute.

 

[Ozzy]

Yeah Sven, geeze the nerve of you. I happen to have utterly no idea of who Ozzy is, and therefore can assure you he must obviously be of impeccable repute.

What does it matter who I am? I've already displayed my crudentials regarding my experience of the game in the UK - I even played in the 1991 granny!
The point I'm trying to make, and I hope people feel I'm justified in making it, is that Clarkey has been of NO help to the development of the game in the UK. If he had been, he would have embraced the structure we currently have and built on the foundations that have been formed over the last 15 years. Instead of doing that, he has tried to undermine the structure in the UK (and there's a lot of evidence of that!) and has constantly sought his own route.
Suffice to say that Clarkey is not the most popular bloke in British Aussie Rules as far as the existing British Aussie Rules setup is concerned.

I concede that Clarkey's enthusiasm for the game should be applauded, but sometimes his methods and delivery are not very well executed. I would say that embracing the support of the AFL wherever you may be in the world is probably the most important aspect of game development internationally, but Clarkey has constantly upset them, even to the extend that his 'new' venture has been hit already with harsh words from the AFL.

 

[brentonb]

where is there evidence of junior development in the UK, by the Barfl
from what I have seen there is very little
Considering the harsh ccritisisum towards Clarkey who is acheiving a lot of success I'd expect to see much more in this crucial area.
Clarkey, it seems has done a much better job on his own and has attracted stronger support without the AFL and will continue this way and go from strength to strength because he is the man to do it and like many inovators and acheivers before him he will have to deflect a huge amount of critisisum and flak and if you know the Guy you will know that he struggles and give one hundred percent to his cause
so once again I ask where is the evidence of junior development in the Uk by the BARFL and if is a good incentive to create some go do it