Politics & Government Australia Flag Change

[Simmonds2Hislop]

If you don't give a shit then why are you posting this crap?

Because people who post crap like you swing my opinion from neutral to against.

I don't want to change the flag for the sake of it. I genuinely believe that the current flag does not represent Australia and never has.

Except that it does, and it has since 1901 and officially since 1954.

That's not really a point up for debate.

If you had read my post thoroughly like everyone else, you would have picked up the theme's and reasons why i believe this. Read it again give it a try instead of ignoring my reasoning and picking up on small insignificant details to try and catch me out. If you don't want to debate the issue, and continue to try and look for chinks in my speech then i refuse to talk to you.
Also you didn't actually answer all the questions :|
TROLL.

I did pick up on the themes, I just didn't respond to them because they're your personal opinion, I responded to the bits which aren't opinion.

You need to re-read the post because there are plently of quotes to prove all of your remarks wrong. To start i said "immigration exploded in Australia with people flocking to Oz from places in Europe, Africa and Asia as well as Great Britain. " Also if the majority of the first white Australian's were not settlers then what were they? Re read the post and prove yourself wrong because i cbf looking for the Quotes.

You said the majority were "Irish Settlers", which is a lie.

They represent over 125,000 years of pre white settlement,

Yet they represent close to 1% of the development of the nation, the thing which the flag represents.

indigenous Australian culture. They area also the traditional custodian's of the land we call home. A flag does not only represent population, but culture and a variety of other aspects.

By traditional, you mean "former" I assume?

 

[WorldGame94]

Must i really do this again?
Here we go:
1> Your a twat because my post is not crap, but well research opinion piece. You are talking crap by trying point out some sort of error's in sentences you haven't even finished reading. If you don't care get out.

2> No, its not, so why did you bring it up. I simply stated what i believed. Just because it was deemed as our flag, it does not mean i have to like it. If we changed our flag, people would just as easily get used to the new one, as they did the old one. And if future Australians had a problem with the new flag then they can also voice their opinion because it is a free country.

3> If you haven't realised this is an opinion website not a "cut down people on pointless crap" website. Its very funny how you respond to "facts" with your own opinion and then more pointless dribble. I would like it if yo did debate my opinions. None of my facts are wrong because i had this piece read by many people with political/historical background's. They did n't have any problems with it. I can't say how or why for privacy reasons. You seem to be the only one that can find insignificant problems with it. Whats next, my grammar or spelling?

4>So you did ignore the bit when said People form the UK did come to Australia. Funny how you just totally ignored that quote. Anyway, many of them were Irish settlers. I did not give a specific time frame so you can't get me on that one sorry.

5>Again you failed to read the rest of the sentence. "...... years of pre white settlement, indigenous Australian culture" That make up 2.8% of the current population for your own information, and they represent rich history. - Which i would rather not dismiss just because they don't make up a large part of the population. Your an ignorant fool to think this.

6>No, not former, traditional is the word i was after.

Please don't continue with your rants and slander campaign, its really annoying me.
If you don't care then let people who do talk about the issue.

 

[Football God]

Something like this i dont mind. kinda what i was getting at before, just take out the word australia in it. looks blank maybe a bit of the indigenous colours init.

 

[Simmonds2Hislop]

2> No, its not, so why did you bring it up. I simply stated what i believed. Just because it was deemed as our flag, it does not mean i have to like it. If we changed our flag, people would just as easily get used to the new one, as they did the old one. And if future Australians had a problem with the new flag then they can also voice their opinion because it is a free country.

There we go. That's what I was after.

Regardless of whether or not you like it, it does represent you.

3> If you haven't realised this is an opinion website not a "cut down people on pointless crap" website. Its very funny how you respond to "facts" with your own opinion and then more pointless dribble. I would like it if yo did debate my opinions. None of my facts are wrong because i had this piece read by many people with political/historical background's. They did n't have any problems with it. I can't say how or why for privacy reasons. You seem to be the only one that can find insignificant problems with it. Whats next, my grammar or spelling?

OK. Let's do that:

WorldGame: I don't think it represents Australia.
Me: I do think it does.
WorldGame: Yeah well I think it doesn't
Me: Well i think it does.
WorldGame: I don't like it
Me: I do

That's basically the crux of the argument if you leave out all the unimportant bullshit.

What it represents to people is completely up to them. If you leave it people like you whinge. If you change it people who do like the flag whinge.

It's a trivial non issue.

The flag represents Australians. If you don't like it don't claim it doesn't represent Australians, just say "I don't like it".

4>So you did ignore the bit when said People form the UK did come to Australia. Funny how you just totally ignored that quote. Anyway, many of them were Irish settlers. I did not give a specific time frame so you can't get me on that one sorry.

Yes, but you said the majority were Irish, which is wrong.

5>Again you failed to read the rest of the sentence. "...... years of pre white settlement, indigenous Australian culture" That make up 2.8% of the current population for your own information, and they represent rich history. - Which i would rather not dismiss just because they don't make up a large part of the population. Your an ignorant fool to think this.

Yes I ignored that bit because Aboriginal culture makes up a minute part of our nations culture. British culture was by far the most dominant.

 

[breeno]

No offence to any other cultures, but when our constitution was formed, and to be frank the majority of early Australian development occurred, it was under British rule, and under this flag, the flag that represents Australia and has represented Australia for many years. We would not be here if it weren't for the British Empire colonising us, so I believe it should stay.

No need to change it for the sake of change as others have said, although I quite like the green and gold coat of arms flag.

 

[WorldGame94]

No offence to any other cultures, but when our constitution was formed, and to be frank the majority of early Australian development occurred, it was under British rule, and under this flag, the flag that represents Australia and has represented Australia for many years. We would not be here if it weren't for the British Empire colonising us, so I believe it should stay.

No need to change it for the sake of change as others have said, although I quite like the green and gold coat of arms flag.

Fair enough opinion, although Australia would have been colonised by any European nation one way or another. Whether it was the French, the English, the Spanish, the Italian's it was just luck that the british colonised it first. In fact it was the Spanish and the Dutch who first spotted OZ.
I believe we can still remember these colonial times without the Union Jack flying over our nation.
Yeah these colours are liked buy a lot of people. Keep up the comments thanks.

 

[WorldGame94]

Something like this i dont mind. kinda what i was getting at before, just take out the word australia in it. looks blank maybe a bit of the indigenous colours init.

Very good design. We could possibly move the signs around a bit and have the coat of arms in the middle of something.
Thanks

 

[Brad Roo]

They represent over 125,000 years of pre white settlement, indigenous Australian culture. They area also the traditional custodian's of the land we call home. A flag does not only represent population, but culture and a variety of other aspects.

They are a conquered culture that have no exclusive right to a national flag.

 

[Brad Roo]

Something like this i dont mind. kinda what i was getting at before, just take out the word australia in it. looks blank maybe a bit of the indigenous colours init.

Jesus Keeeerist, I hope you plan on handing out 25 million pairs of sunglasses if that thing ends up being the flag.

 

[red+black]

Swap the colours over.

 

[FootyJunkie]

Something like this i dont mind. kinda what i was getting at before, just take out the word australia in it. looks blank maybe a bit of the indigenous colours init.

Right idea I think. The national colours are green and gold, so they should be on the flag. I just think it should be inversed... green background will stand out more than gold.

Keep the southern cross, but move it to the left side of the flag. Remove the Commonwealth Star. Putting the coat of arms is good too, have it on the right side of the flag, remove 'AUSTRALIA' though, its a symbol that shouldn't be explicitly described.

 

[BobbyMorri]

I see the worldgame histroy is not quite right. I cant go back to the points u said(56K speed), but hopefully I can explain.

One, The Spanish were never ever near Australia. U thinking of the Portuguese, and they really only just touched us, and really didn’t explore. The English found us just after the Dutch. Only the French cared about Australia(after the Brits) in the 1800’s.

And I cant think of any revolt against the British for Australian Independence. Not any major nationwide one which whole point was for out independence. Euruka was fought by miners for more mining rights, not for an independent nation.

And the last point about WW1 and WW2, im sure if you did a poll back in those days to see if you wanted to fight for the British empire, the majority would have voted yes. Yes, we didn’t really have a choice, but we also wanted to help out Old country. We would have gone to war, even if we weren’t “forced”.

I like our flag, and I haven’t seen any other flag designs which I liked. All of the designs are ugly, though I liked that new NSW design though.

If we were too change it, I don’t see why we need yellow and green. Yes, they are our national colours, but the Netherlands national colour is Orange, and that is not on their flag. Some colours are too ugly to be put on the flag.

 

[Brad Roo]

And I cant think of any revolt against the British for Australian Independence. Not any major nationwide one which whole point was for out independence. Euruka was fought by miners for more mining rights, not for an independent nation.

I see no problem with having a flag that is truly Australian the represents the peoples rights, in fact I think it is an excellent choice. The Eureka flag is also aesthetically pleasing.

And the last point about WW1 and WW2, im sure if you did a poll back in those days to see if you wanted to fight for the British empire, the majority would have voted yes. Yes, we didn’t really have a choice, but we also wanted to help out Old country. We would have gone to war, even if we weren’t “forced”.

That is simply not correct.

You are denying our predominately Irish heritage, and you are also ignoring the fact that the Australian people returned a No vote to 2 referendums on conscription to participate in a British war in WW1.

Those in power have been keen to promote Australians as predominately Empire Loyalists, but that is not in synch with the reality of the situation.


I think national colors, flags and national anthems are something that should be decided upon via referendum once Australia converts to a republic.

I'm talking about a proper republic, not the Clayton's republic that was foisted upon us in 1999.

Until then, arguing about a flag is a bit like arguing about the color scheme inside a prison cell.

 

[Perry Pie]

...... The Eureka flag is also aesthetically pleasing.

You are denying our predominately Irish heritage..............

Wanted to say that I agree about the Eureka flag and almost everything you said.
Howver, the point about the Irish heritage is wrong, it is not predominant, not even close. The heratige is predominantly British (mostly English) working class.

 

[Brad Roo]

Wanted to say that I agree about the Eureka flag and almost everything you said.
Howver, the point about the Irish heritage is wrong, it is not predominant, not even close. The heratige is predominantly British (mostly English) working class.

Yes, you are correct. I need to drink more coffee before posting.

However, the Irish vote was pivotal in the WW1 conscription referendums.

 

[breeno]

Yes, you are correct. I need to drink more coffee before posting.

However, the Irish vote was pivotal in the WW1 conscription referendums.

In regards to WW2.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I think I've read somewhere that the large majority of Australian Military Forces were volunteers, and conscription was only used towards the tail end of WW2. I'll come back when I find the book.

EDIT: Just quick off Wiki "Compulsory military service was introduced: all men over 21 had to complete three months training with the Militia. However, to ensure home defences, Militia members were barred from joining the AIF."

 

[Coledinho]

Needs to be more boganish in general. A boxing kangaroo punching a boat would be ideal

 

[Hard Ball Get]

I've never understood all these people that want the flag changed. It is fine the way it is.

 

[FootyJunkie]

I've never understood all these people that want the flag changed. It is fine the way it is.

Pom

 

[Hard Ball Get]

Pom

I knew this was coming...
Actually couldn't give two stuffs about the monarchy. The Queen means nothing to me.

If we had a referendum, I would vote to become a republic. I still want to keep the flag.

 

[Last of the Roys]

I would definitely vote (again) for a Republic as well, and I too am against changing the flag.

Even more bizarre, a fair way back I have relatively strong Irish heritage. But I like our flag, it is ours, it's got historical significance and really it has been embraced by all generations - not the least young people.

I don't think there is any way the flag will ever be changed.

 

[WorldGame94]

I see the worldgame histroy is not quite right. I cant go back to the points u said(56K speed), but hopefully I can explain.

One, The Spanish were never ever near Australia. U thinking of the Portuguese, and they really only just touched us, and really didn’t explore. The English found us just after the Dutch. Only the French cared about Australia(after the Brits) in the 1800’s.

And I cant think of any revolt against the British for Australian Independence. Not any major nationwide one which whole point was for out independence. Euruka was fought by miners for more mining rights, not for an independent nation.

And the last point about WW1 and WW2, im sure if you did a poll back in those days to see if you wanted to fight for the British empire, the majority would have voted yes. Yes, we didn’t really have a choice, but we also wanted to help out Old country. We would have gone to war, even if we weren’t “forced”.

I like our flag, and I haven’t seen any other flag designs which I liked. All of the designs are ugly, though I liked that new NSW design though.

If we were too change it, I don’t see why we need yellow and green. Yes, they are our national colours, but the Netherlands national colour is Orange, and that is not on their flag. Some colours are too ugly to be put on the flag.

Yes you are right, i mean to say the Portuguese in that instance. Although the Spanish did come close enough to spot Australia when they were exploring Indonesia. The French were just behind the brits in discovering Australia. Scary, we could have been speaking French today!
That is said to be partly the reason why the British used a lot of convicts to build up a british settlement. - Convicts are cheap, easy to maintain and perfect for a quick build up.
Apparently French ships were seen sailing around the british settlements on the east coats not long after the first fleet's arrival.

You are correct there also has never been a full revolt like the american independence. But this was because of a variety of reasons.
- lake of population.
- There was no talk between the larger settlements. They were independent of each other.
- Australia was technically behind everybody else because it was one of the last formed countries in the worlds history.
- The British and a strangle hold on all the settlements especially after they had lost the usa to the americans.
Australia just didn't have the man power, time of opportunity to revolt british. They had 'missed the boat' if you like.

The miners at eureka stockade not only fought for mining rights but also to break the british governing power over them. I used this in my post because I believe it portrayed the image i was suggesting.
The miners symbolise the multicultural population that is Australia today. We no longer have the government of yesterday but we are still represented by a flag which i believe depicts the oppression. Just because the British settled Australia doesn't mean we still need to have a Union jack our flag.

You may be right, you may be wrong. We can't say for sure. But the facts we do know is that Australia was told to fight by Britain. The aussie soldiers were sent on mission given to them by British command. We actually coped the bad end of the stick because we were sent on the hardest missions. Galipolli for example. Many Australian death's, for what?

( If we were an inderpentant nation back then, we may have acted more like the USA and we would have been involved in the war in a different way. Most likely still fighting, but without being told what to do, but by having more of a say in how we would approach the war. This is just spit balling so don't go crazy you guys. )

I think 25 million aussies can think of a better flag than the one we have.

I will put up my own but i can't get them to work. How can i attach pictures?

 

[breeno]

Yes you are right, i mean to say the Portuguese in that instance. Although the Spanish did come close enough to spot Australia when they were exploring Indonesia. The French were just behind the brits in discovering Australia. Scary, we could have been speaking French today!
That is said to be partly the reason why the British used a lot of convicts to build up a british settlement. - Convicts are cheap, easy to maintain and perfect for a quick build up.
Apparently French ships were seen sailing around the british settlements on the east coats not long after the first fleet's arrival.

You are correct there also has never been a full revolt like the american independence. But this was because of a variety of reasons.
- lake of population.
- There was no talk between the larger settlements. They were independent of each other.
- Australia was technically behind everybody else because it was one of the last formed countries in the worlds history.
- The British and a strangle hold on all the settlements especially after they had lost the usa to the americans.
Australia just didn't have the man power, time of opportunity to revolt british. They had 'missed the boat' if you like.

The miners at eureka stockade not only fought for mining rights but also to break the british governing power over them. I used this in my post because I believe it portrayed the image i was suggesting.
The miners symbolise the multicultural population that is Australia today. We no longer have the government of yesterday but we are still represented by a flag which i believe depicts the oppression. Just because the British settled Australia doesn't mean we still need to have a Union jack our flag.

You may be right, you may be wrong. We can't say for sure. But the facts we do know is that Australia was told to fight by Britain. The aussie soldiers were sent on mission given to them by British command. We actually coped the bad end of the stick because we were sent on the hardest missions. Galipolli for example. Many Australian death's, for what?

( If we were an inderpentant nation back then, we may have acted more like the USA and we would have been involved in the war in a different way. Most likely still fighting, but without being told what to do, but by having more of a say in how we would approach the war. This is just spit balling so don't go crazy you guys. )

I think 25 million aussies can think of a better flag than the one we have.

I will put up my own but i can't get them to work. How can i attach pictures?

Believe it or not, the British never sent us to the wrong place in Gallipoli. The Allied Generals believed that the Turks would have fortified all of the "easier" terrain, so the Allies decided to pull a shifty and land on the hardest terrain. They needed the right sized force and the Australians volunteered for this job. I was in a state of disbelief when I was told this at the War Memorial.

 

[Underdog]

I haven't mocked it up to see how it looks but I reckon keeping the red and yellow of the Aborigine flag whilst replacing the black with a darker shade of blue and putting the Southern Cross in the sky might go OK.

 

[Helicopter Punt]

I love the Eureka Stockade flag.


That is kind of funny about a country that has probably done as much in the history of the world to promote freedom than any other (the emergence of democracy and common law; one of the earliest abolitions of slavery; WWI and especially WWII). I understand the anti-britain viewpoint (not everything they have done has always been the best), but I just think it's complete b/s. We should be proud of our heritage ironically largely based on freedom, which continues to this day.

Democracy emerged in Greece when GB was in nappies.
You mean the common law forged from Magna Carta, Bill of Rights, Bill of Petitions, etc. recognised in our constitution? Common law which requires a damaged party to come forth (or a breach of the peace) before a charge can be laid? Your right. Sadly, however, long lost. Currently exists in name only. Statutes inconsistent with those rights, like noxious weeds, have overgrown that which once existed.
The freedoms you speak of are a flimsy watery version of what once was.
I wouldn't think there is too much to write home about on that front TBH.

Quote:
Originally Posted by -TAZZA-
Not at all, Australia is their land, not ours, and Australia's flag should be their own flag, not some flag with the bloody union jack on it.

WTF?

It's owned by the Australian government, not the aboriginal people.

Doubt even they would be bare-faced enough to claim this.

No offence to any other cultures, but when our constitution was formed, and to be frank the majority of early Australian development occurred, it was under British rule

Sir John Kerr says hi.

You may be right, you may be wrong.

but it just may be a lunatic your looking for