Australia vs England - Twickenham

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Swans120 said:
On our wing stocks, Hynes doesn't look like he is favoured by Deans much at all. He has barely been sighted for a while now. I think Deans has showed his hand with the wingers. JOC will be one of them, Deans loves him and with good reason. Ioane I think will almost certainly be there as well if his body holds up. Mitchell and Turner are next in line and Rod Davies is a big question mark as Deans clearly wants to play him but his defence is questionable and his body is also not letting him play all the time. Ioane and JOC I feel are our best options and with Mitchell, Turner, Hynes as back ups we have very nice depth there going into a World Cup year.
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I think you are right, which is a shame because Hynes is such a quality player.

Dipper said:
It's a fair point, although the hope is that this wasn't just a random flash in the pan from nowhere but finally the culmination of structures being put in place, young players blooded and fitness levels improved.

Only way to tell for sure is to see how England go in the next 2 games, Samoa and SA, and then the 6 Nations.

Personally for the first time in 7 years I have some hope, the WC might be coming a bit early for this side but on the flip side perhaps NZ have peaked too soon and nobody else looks making a real run into it like SA did a year or so out last time.

How England go against a seemingly rejuvinated SA in 2 weeks will reveal a lot I think.
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Logical and rational. Am I on BF? :D
 
Pawtucket Patriot said:
I think you are right, which is a shame because Hynes is such a quality player.
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Mitchell is better than Hynes and so is Turner, not to mention Iaone. There are a number of wingers ahead of him and that doesn't include the Deans pet in Davies.
 
It's odd because Hynes in like '08 was starting a lot of Tests and I can distinctly remember him getting a big run as soon as Deans was appointed coach. But whether it's been due to his injuries, the form of others or something else he has seemed to drop back badly in the pecking order. I rate him as well just BTW.
 

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England are def on the way up. They gave it to the Wallabies early in the year and then against the ABs last week and then again to Wallabies in the weekend. They have a really strong forward pack and now have a backline in attack mode. If they learn the art of support play they will be deadly. 3 linebreaks to Cueato if thats how you spell his name and not once did he have someone to pass to. They could have scored 3-4 more tries had they had that support. Quade is a garbage 10 really to hot and cold and couldn't takle his Mrs in the bedroom lol. But worse for the Wallabies is Quade cant run a team. When Barnes comes on they look a lot better in attack how long will they persist with an out of form Gits. Deans wasn't scared to tell G Smith when his time was up probably best he tells Gits the same. I could see a loss like this coming a mile away they beat the ABs once out of the last 11 games and they think they are the number 1 team in the world. They needed to keep level heads after beating the ABs instead of carrying on like they had just won the WC. Should of acted like it was no big deal and just got on with shaking hands might have served them better. Deans day's are numbered, Super Rugby needs him, International Rugby doesn't.
 
ausiwi said:
England are def on the way up. They gave it to the Wallabies early in the year and then against the ABs last week and then again to Wallabies in the weekend. They have a really strong forward pack and now have a backline in attack mode. If they learn the art of support play they will be deadly. 3 linebreaks to Cueato if thats how you spell his name and not once did he have someone to pass to. They could have scored 3-4 more tries had they had that support. Quade is a garbage 10 really to hot and cold and couldn't takle his Mrs in the bedroom lol. But worse for the Wallabies is Quade cant run a team. When Barnes comes on they look a lot better in attack how long will they persist with an out of form Gits. Deans wasn't scared to tell G Smith when his time was up probably best he tells Gits the same. I could see a loss like this coming a mile away they beat the ABs once out of the last 11 games and they think they are the number 1 team in the world. They needed to keep level heads after beating the ABs instead of carrying on like they had just won the WC. Should of acted like it was no big deal and just got on with shaking hands might have served them better. Deans day's are numbered, Super Rugby needs him, International Rugby doesn't.
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Ridiculous statement in regards to Cooper. Yes he is an awful tackler, but he directs the back line just fine. Also, the English were carrying on as though they just won the WC after beating us. All teams do it after big wins.
 
Pawtucket Patriot said:
I rate him above Turner, but behind JOC, Ioane and Mitchell.
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They aint taking 5 wingers to the World Cup.

1. JOC
2. Mitchell
3. Iaone

Those are absolute locks.

Then ONE out of Cummins, Turner, Davies and Hynes MIGHT get a gig.
 
Pawtucket Patriot said:
Ridiculous statement in regards to Cooper. Yes he is an awful tackler, but he directs the back line just fine. Also, the English were carrying on as though they just won the WC after beating us. All teams do it after big wins.
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Did you actually watch the game!!! What did the back line do when they got the ball they kicked it straight back or stuffed things up. There's no real direction there. I believe they will lose another game on tour.
 
Barnes was rubbish against Munster. I don't think he's the answer.

I'd give Anthony Faingaa a couple of games at 12. Would love to see JOC at 12 eventually but I think we need a strong defender there right now with Cooper's defense as it is.
 
ausiwi said:
Did you actually watch the game!!! What did the back line do when they got the ball they kicked it straight back or stuffed things up. There's no real direction there. I believe they will lose another game on tour.
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Did you only watch the England game?

bombersno1 said:
Put Barnes at 12, then Cooper is much better. If Giteau did not have blonde hair he would not be in the side.
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Mint Condition said:
Barnes was rubbish against Munster. I don't think he's the answer.

I'd give Anthony Faingaa a couple of games at 12. Would love to see JOC at 12 eventually but I think we need a strong defender there right now with Cooper's defense as it is.
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Back both of these ideas. Giteau must go.
 
Mint Condition said:
Barnes was rubbish against Munster. I don't think he's the answer.

I'd give Anthony Faingaa a couple of games at 12. Would love to see JOC at 12 eventually but I think we need a strong defender there right now with Cooper's defense as it is.
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Anthony Faainga is not the answer, and I hate those type of no12's. You need a 2nd playmaker at 12. Barnes is your best 12, put him there.
 

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Quade Cooper is way over rated as a 10, sure he did some great things for the Reds but I have yet to see that follow on into the international scene, QC just hasn't got the brains to play 10 at this level. Dingo Deans has dug a huge hole for himself with his selections and he has no choice but to stick with what he has got now. He should have given Beale a go there way back when QC was out with suspension or injury I can't remember which one it was. Beale appears to me to be much more of a thinker than QC. I agree that Giteau has to go but I doubt that will happen, its well known Dingo has his favourites that he looks after and sticks with. The problem with the Wallabies is they dont no how to respond to adversity when put under pressure and thats from not playing enough games with out a comp like Currie cup & I.t.m. you can see it they all look around what do we do next, and the Wallabies also just dont have the forward power its that simple! Thier forwards, especially the front row are a bunch of powder puffs! Another problem is that they dont have anyone to replace them with as thier depth is rubbish as well.
 
bombersno1 said:
Anthony Faainga is not the answer, and I hate those type of no12's. You need a 2nd playmaker at 12. Barnes is your best 12, put him there.
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Disagree. We don't have to have a playmaker at 12, in fact Cooper is probably better off with a purely line breaking 12 than a playmaker. Barnes and Faingaa meet this criterion, although Barnes is ahead as he is a great kick and provides some more options if needed.

In regards to Hynes; he can play wing and fullback very well, which is ideal for the bench (I realise that Mitchell, JOC and Beale can also). He is so damaging from fullback and would be my second choice fullback behind Beale.
 
ausiwi said:
Quade Cooper is way over rated as a 10, sure he did some great things for the Reds but I have yet to see that follow on into the international scene, QC just hasn't got the brains to play 10 at this level. Dingo Deans has dug a huge hole for himself with his selections and he has no choice but to stick with what he has got now. He should have given Beale a go there way back when QC was out with suspension or injury I can't remember which one it was. Beale appears to me to be much more of a thinker than QC. I agree that Giteau has to go but I doubt that will happen, its well known Dingo has his favourites that he looks after and sticks with. The problem with the Wallabies is they dont no how to respond to adversity when put under pressure and thats from not playing enough games with out a comp like Currie cup & I.t.m. you can see it they all look around what do we do next, and the Wallabies also just dont have the forward power its that simple! Thier forwards, especially the front row are a bunch of powder puffs! Another problem is that they dont have anyone to replace them with as thier depth is rubbish as well.
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Basically everything you just said is rubbish. Beale has played at 10 for the Waratahs and was s**t. Had no idea. Much better at fullback. Cooper is the best 10, but has to work on his tackling. He has the necessary smarts. Our depth is pretty decent, considering we have a fair few players out injured.
 
Beale played at 10 as a new comer just out of High School if he had been given a chance and had been nurturered there he would be a far better play than what QC is now. To say the depth is decent your living in dream land, they have only 2 players who are injured at the moment that would walk straight in the team and that is Horwill and Palu. The truth is no Australian front rower would be good enough to replace any NZ super front rower, actually I suspect very few ITM teams would consider any Wallabie front rower good enough to improve what the ITM team has.
The only thing that is going for the Wallabies leading into the World Cup is they have this uncanny knack of playing really well at World Cups
 
Pawtucket Patriot said:
Disagree. We don't have to have a playmaker at 12, in fact Cooper is probably better off with a purely line breaking 12 than a playmaker. Barnes and Faingaa meet this criterion, although Barnes is ahead as he is a great kick and provides some more options if needed.

In regards to Hynes; he can play wing and fullback very well, which is ideal for the bench (I realise that Mitchell, JOC and Beale can also). He is so damaging from fullback and would be my second choice fullback behind Beale.
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Barnes is the no12 in my view as he is a line runner but at the same time also can be a playmaker, which is very good as it allows Cooper to take the line on a bit more.

Hynes is not better than 3 of the options I have listed, lets be honest Mitchell, JOC, and Iaone will be the first 3 wingers picked. Then Ashley Cooper is in the side for assurance as well. How many winger/fullbacks do we want to take? I might take 1 more but that would be it.
 
Yet people forget that Kurtley Beale played TWO GAMES at fly half at school level. He was always a fullback. There is a reason he is so good at fullback..you recon Cooper's defence is bad at 10, Beale would be worse.
 
bombersno1 said:
Yet people forget that Kurtley Beale played TWO GAMES at fly half at school level. He was always a fullback. There is a reason he is so good at fullback..you recon Cooper's defence is bad at 10, Beale would be worse.
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I watched Beale play more than 2 games at 10 for Joeys. I was going through Grammar at the time and saw him ****ing destroy us numerous times with a 10 on his back. Not that it has much to do with this whole discussion really, just sayin'.
 
Not in the 1sts he didn't- I should know I used to coach (assistant) there. Played a lot of 10 in 2nds though as he came through the ranks. Played 2 games for the 1sts, one was the last game which he was MOTM but he only played 10 as the normal fly half was injured
 
OK I didn't know that, but that a side I will guarantee you QC will be the down fall of the Wallabies a long with Mr Dingo Deans and I will be writing back here saying I told you so. They will scrap past Italy and lose to France in there coming games you wait and see.
 
ausiwi said:
Beale played at 10 as a new comer just out of High School if he had been given a chance and had been nurturered there he would be a far better play than what QC is now. To say the depth is decent your living in dream land, they have only 2 players who are injured at the moment that would walk straight in the team and that is Horwill and Palu. The truth is no Australian front rower would be good enough to replace any NZ super front rower, actually I suspect very few ITM teams would consider any Wallabie front rower good enough to improve what the ITM team has.
The only thing that is going for the Wallabies leading into the World Cup is they have this uncanny knack of playing really well at World Cups
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Not an uncanny knack, just the ability to perform against quality opposition over a month period. Unlike the ABs who invariably crumble at the WC.


bombersno1 said:
Barnes is the no12 in my view as he is a line runner but at the same time also can be a playmaker, which is very good as it allows Cooper to take the line on a bit more.

Hynes is not better than 3 of the options I have listed, lets be honest Mitchell, JOC, and Iaone will be the first 3 wingers picked. Then Ashley Cooper is in the side for assurance as well. How many winger/fullbacks do we want to take? I might take 1 more but that would be it.
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Agree with all that.

ausiwi said:
OK I didn't know that, but that a side I will guarantee you QC will be the down fall of the Wallabies a long with Mr Dingo Deans and I will be writing back here saying I told you so. They will scrap past Italy and lose to France in there coming games you wait and see.
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Please do.
 
bombersno1 said:
Anthony Faainga is not the answer, and I hate those type of no12's. You need a 2nd playmaker at 12. Barnes is your best 12, put him there.
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The problem with Barnes is he kicks the ball away too much. Maybe that's more of an issue when he plays at 10 than 12, but Faingaa is more dynamic and a harder runner, yet can still distribute. He's more in the Tim Horan mode, and the best Wallabies teams of the professional era had Tim Horan at 12.

Besides, with Genia, Cooper and Beale and to a lesser extent JOC, the ball playing skills are covered. You often see Australia running 2nd man plays where Cooper throws a long ball to Beale who runs behind the decoy of Giteau, and then has space to make a play either for himself or for AAC and/or one of the wingers outside him. If that was Faingaa instead of Giteau the defence might actually be in two minds about it!
 
Mint Condition said:
The problem with Barnes is he kicks the ball away too much. Maybe that's more of an issue when he plays at 10 than 12, but Faingaa is more dynamic and a harder runner, yet can still distribute. He's more in the Tim Horan mode, and the best Wallabies teams of the professional era had Tim Horan at 12.

Besides, with Genia, Cooper and Beale and to a lesser extent JOC, the ball playing skills are covered. You often see Australia running 2nd man plays where Cooper throws a long ball to Beale who runs behind the decoy of Giteau, and then has space to make a play either for himself or for AAC and/or one of the wingers outside him. If that was Faingaa instead of Giteau the defence might actually be in two minds about it!
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Got to 4:50. :thumbsu:

[YOUTUBE]KI3X3LR-MCs[/YOUTUBE]
 
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