Australian Wrestling thread

[kistan]

I haven't listened so I'm going off your writings.

With MCW I don't understand how they are trying to get families or a diverse audience. Not a criticism here at all but they are a modern independent wrestling promotion and always will be whilst the families and diverse audiences are more into sports entertainment style approach professional wrestling with big stars. They don't even seem to be trying to attract that WWE casual wrestling audience because they rarely use internationals that would be known to those people (Outside Buddy Matthews) and rarely use any crossover mainstream stars from outside wrestling either (Like PWA and James Graham).

As for the part about open challenges and GM spots I think you'd be very surprised as to just how dumb some people in Aussie Wrestling are, I 100% believe that.

There's more than one way to attract families than internationals and copying wwe. You can still have colourful characters great matches and get families. It's the mix really, there's fun characters like Ugg/Lucas Fantasia etc. That kids would like and then there's more serious stuff on top. But mixing those characters in. It's also the production that helps make people feel like stars and obviously backstage they get everyone pumped up to feel like that as well.

Look at Slam. They don't have internationals either. Just strong characters. Easy to follow booking.

It's a tale as old as time. Whats turned All Japan around. They were already having great matches? Big characters like the Saitos, Anzai, Hayato. Clear stuff people can get behind. You want your show to sell tickets. Promotion promotion promotion and clarity.

 

[Dingbat McFlurry]

There's more than one way to attract families than internationals and copying wwe. You can still have colourful characters great matches and get families. It's the mix really, there's fun characters like Ugg/Lucas Fantasia etc. That kids would like and then there's more serious stuff on top. But mixing those characters in. It's also the production that helps make people feel like stars and obviously backstage they get everyone pumped up to feel like that as well.

Look at Slam. They don't have internationals either. Just strong characters. Easy to follow booking.

It's a tale as old as time. Whats turned All Japan around. They were already having great matches? Big characters like the Saitos, Anzai, Hayato. Clear stuff people can get behind. You want your show to sell tickets. Promotion promotion promotion and clarit

exactly right, there is more than one way to skin a cat.

MCW have sold over 1000 tickets so whatever they are doing is working, I haven't listened to the interview yet, but surely diversifying a crowd is good business and growing wrestling audiences can only be seen as a positive.

 

[nobbyiscool]

There's more than one way to attract families than internationals and copying wwe. You can still have colourful characters great matches and get families. It's the mix really, there's fun characters like Ugg/Lucas Fantasia etc. That kids would like and then there's more serious stuff on top. But mixing those characters in. It's also the production that helps make people feel like stars and obviously backstage they get everyone pumped up to feel like that as well.

Look at Slam. They don't have internationals either. Just strong characters. Easy to follow booking.

It's a tale as old as time. Whats turned All Japan around. They were already having great matches? Big characters like the Saitos, Anzai, Hayato. Clear stuff people can get behind. You want your show to sell tickets. Promotion promotion promotion and clarity.

Delta single-handedly brought and maintained a whole new demographic at MCW - as you say it's cos of the production, and because she was booked well, that she seemed like a ****ing superhero to not just the little girls, but also the boys in that crowd. (Also cos she's just that friggen charismatic and magnetic.)

I guess that's one positive thing that can be said for a diversity among your audience. The reactions the Delta was getting, the crowds she was bringing, the enthusiasm of all the kids in the crowd who were watching a live action super hero became a big part of the attraction IMO. You don't get that with male-dominated black tshirt crowd.

 

[kistan]

Delta single-handedly brought and maintained a whole new demographic at MCW - as you say it's cos of the production, and because she was booked well, that she seemed like a ****ing superhero to not just the little girls, but also the boys in that crowd. (Also cos she's just that friggen charismatic and magnetic.)

I guess that's one positive thing that can be said for a diversity among your audience. The reactions the Delta was getting, the crowds she was bringing, the enthusiasm of all the kids in the crowd who were watching a live action super hero became a big part of the attraction IMO. You don't get that with male-dominated black tshirt crowd.

It's the same idea of bringing in the female crowd in Japan, the shows where you get the stern businessman crowd are always so quiet vs not. Not saying the black tshirt crowd don't make noise, but it's a different dynamic.

 

[auswrestlinginsider]

There's more than one way to attract families than internationals and copying wwe. You can still have colourful characters great matches and get families. It's the mix really, there's fun characters like Ugg/Lucas Fantasia etc. That kids would like and then there's more serious stuff on top. But mixing those characters in. It's also the production that helps make people feel like stars and obviously backstage they get everyone pumped up to feel like that as well.

Look at Slam. They don't have internationals either. Just strong characters. Easy to follow booking.

It's a tale as old as time. Whats turned All Japan around. They were already having great matches? Big characters like the Saitos, Anzai, Hayato. Clear stuff people can get behind. You want your show to sell tickets. Promotion promotion promotion and clarity.

Doesn't need to be complete copying WWE but I guess my point is that the families or casuals don't want 20-30 minute main events without huge stories, wrestlers going out there trying to put on bangers, men winning the women's title, men defending the women's title against other men or women fighting men etc, those are the things that make MCW appear very indy.

You're right though in that the impressive production and colourful characters can change things I'm just saying that MCW doesn't seem to be pursuing that casual fan market so I'm surprised to hear Nobby report that they are apparently looking for that. The best way to describe MCW I guess is that they're more like AEW than WWE and AEW hasn't exactly caught the world on fire when it comes to connecting with casuals.

Nobby mentioned the FFA so I can use this example but the A-League has always been at its most popular and done the best when it has had big international stars around the place, it was a key part of their marketing strategy and even the NBL has tried to implement it to grow audience. Big cities like Melbourne, Sydney and I guess Brisbane as well want to see big stars despite how talented the locals are.

MCW have sold over 1000 tickets so whatever they are doing is working

It is impressive but this is the premier promotion in the country, they've hyped this for months, traditional media has covered it, all the internet fans, podcasters, website writers etc have mentioned nothing but End Game, 15 years of goodwill, one of the biggest wrestling stars to come out of Australia appearing live with a tease that he'll have big news for AEW PPV and/or MCW plus the majority of the biggest stars in Aussie Wrestling inside a suitable building.

1000+ should've always happened with all of that in their favour.

 

[Dingbat McFlurry]

Doesn't need to be complete copying WWE but I guess my point is that the families or casuals don't want 20-30 minute main events without huge stories, wrestlers going out there trying to put on bangers, men winning the women's title, men defending the women's title against other men or women fighting men etc, those are the things that make MCW appear very indy.

You're right though in that the impressive production and colourful characters can change things I'm just saying that MCW doesn't seem to be pursuing that casual fan market so I'm surprised to hear Nobby report that they are apparently looking for that. The best way to describe MCW I guess is that they're more like AEW than WWE and AEW hasn't exactly caught the world on fire when it comes to connecting with casuals.

Nobby mentioned the FFA so I can use this example but the A-League has always been at its most popular and done the best when it has had big international stars around the place, it was a key part of their marketing strategy and even the NBL has tried to implement it to grow audience. Big cities like Melbourne, Sydney and I guess Brisbane as well want to see big stars despite how talented the locals are.




It is impressive but this is the premier promotion in the country, they've hyped this for months, traditional media has covered it, all the internet fans, podcasters, website writers etc have mentioned nothing but End Game, 15 years of goodwill, one of the biggest wrestling stars to come out of Australia appearing live with a tease that he'll have big news for AEW PPV and/or MCW plus the majority of the biggest stars in Aussie Wrestling inside a suitable building.

1000+ should've always happened with all of that in their favour.

I am not sure when you last saw an MCW show but it is more WWE than AEW, especially the last 2 years.

 

[kistan]

I am not sure when you last saw an MCW show but it is more WWE than AEW, especially the last 2 years.

I would say it's more Dragon Gate, DDT or AJPW than either. Somewhere in the middle of those three. Stories are closer to DG than WWE/AEW and matches are either DDTish or AJPWish (modern AJPW).

 

[auswrestlinginsider]

I am not sure when you last saw an MCW show but it is more WWE than AEW, especially the last 2 years.

Over the last 2 years they had a man win the women's title, 2 men wrestle for the women's title, a woman win a men's title, intergender matches, 5'9 80 kilogram wrestler running off your entire heel stable single handedly including the World Champion and more.

You could argue some of this worked like the DELTA stuff but that isn't WWE style booking or even AEW booking that is indy booking. The best promotion for a casual wrestling fan currently in Australia in 2024 is SLAM

 

[Dingbat McFlurry]

I would say it's more Dragon Gate, DDT or AJPW than either. Somewhere in the middle of those three. Stories are closer to DG than WWE/AEW and matches are either DDTish or AJPWish (modern AJPW).

Im not sure that the bookers at MCW have seen an AJPW or DDT match in their lives

 

[nobbyiscool]

You could argue some of this worked like the DELTA stuff

You could argue that the Delta stuff worked?

JFC.

 

[auswrestlinginsider]

You could argue that the Delta stuff worked?

JFC.

You could argue some of it worked, such as the Delta stuff. Delta worked, but it worked for a niche modern independent wrestling audience. Does it work in the Australian mainstream or hook a casual wrestling fan? Probably not.

 

[nobbyiscool]

You could argue some of it worked, such as the Delta stuff. Delta worked, but it worked for a niche modern independent wrestling audience. Does it work in the Australian mainstream or hook a casual wrestling fan? Probably not.

It's so wild to me that you still use the "insider" name, and you claim to know more than people who actually go to these shows. You can't tell me a ****ing thing about MCW, its place in wrestling, or its audience.

You could see the demographic of the crowd changing during Delta's rise. As someone who went to every show for over 2 years up until the last one, the Delta crowd was like chalk and cheese compared to the pre-COVID crowd.

She wasn't operating within an indy wrestling niche, she created her own niche that, assuming at least a modicum of success in NXT, retroactively draws in yet another demographic of people to Australian wrestling. That's in addition to the crowd who went from casual fans to regulars during Delta's rise.

 

[auswrestlinginsider]

It's so wild to me that you still use the "insider" name, and you claim to know more than people who actually go to these shows. You can't tell me a ****ing thing about MCW, its place in wrestling, or its audience.

You could see the demographic of the crowd changing during Delta's rise. As someone who went to every show for over 2 years up until the last one, the Delta crowd was like chalk and cheese compared to the pre-COVID crowd.

She wasn't operating within an indy wrestling niche, she created her own niche that, assuming at least a modicum of success in NXT, retroactively draws in yet another demographic of people to Australian wrestling. That's in addition to the crowd who went from casual fans to regulars during Delta's rise.

You're thinking small so it is hard to debate with you.

My point isn't that MCW didn't attract a few new fans who thought Delta was cool my point is that if MCW wants to attract a mainstream audience they can't pull the shit that they do. You know...the mainstream? The millions of people out there who might sit down and watch wrestling if something cool enough caught their attention? MCW has very little to attract those types, it is a niche independent group that does little to try and hook casuals and there is nothing wrong with that. It isn't a criticism, every other fed in Australia is the same except SLAM

 

[kistan]

There is no one way to do wrestling. There is no one style/way of doing things that is a guarantee to work. Every hot period is big stars with big personalities people connect with. Weather that's stoic Misawa, crying fighting babyface Kobashi or disconnected Naito, bombastic Omega, wild Stone Cold or the charasmic Rock, the egomanic Mistico or enigmatic Candian Vampire. All completely different styles times energies etc. They made Delta a big personality in MCW. When was Waterman drawing when he stepped up, cut strong promos and a personality in the ring. Etc. You still have to have great matches and what those look like need to reflect the personalities. There is no one size fits all in wrestling.

 

[kistan]

Today's the big day. Who does everyone have in the big matches?

 

[HankPanky]

Today's the big day.

Can't wait. I've got my black t-shirt on. It's going to be a banger. Look forward to hearing all the moaning on here after its done

 

[kistan]

Can't wait. I've got my black t-shirt on. It's going to be a banger. Look forward to hearing all the moaning on here after its done

If I wear a country road black tshirt does that count?

 

[nobbyiscool]

JXT returning in the rumble has flown waaaay under the radar!

You couldn't have someone like JXT return to just do a one-off spot in a rumble, could you? Someone like him, it has to be a return - he's meant too much to MCW to come and just do a "thank you spot" for using the Relentless students at their events. (Whatever happened to their school with PCW? They disappeared as soon as it was announced.)

 

[fuey]

Not a great start, something broke under the ring just as the show was meant to begin...

 

[fuey]

Today's the big day. Who does everyone have in the big matches?

Icons lose one title, probably the tag imo, but who knows...

 

[Poison]

This whole show, the whole setup, just feels like a big deal. Last time I had that sense for an Aus show was probably the GCW/Renegades deal here last year.

 

[JustHavinAGeez]

Enjoyed the show. The production levels were insane, it genuinely felt like a shot at demoing a potential televised product in terms of presentation.

The first half was great, loved the Battle Royale and the Sacrament, plus the idea that Ricky South exists to be the person that is in Ugg's way is really nice storytelling.Second half was a bit meh both the 6 man tag and women's title matches felt like they were cut short just as they were getting going so maybe some time constraints. The main just felt long and didn't click for me, crowd seemed pretty quiet at parts but to their credit they got the crowd back with the big story payoff moments so that was fun.

It wasn't perfect, but it was a very solid show and what was good was exceptional.

 

[squirts88]

Based purely on twitter posts it seemed the show was kind of 50/50 in terms of quality. That said, what was good looked really good and I look forward to watching it tomorrow.

That said I was disappointed about Ugg winning then immediately losing the title. I’ve been an Ugg fan for a long time so I hope the plan is an eventual title run for him and that this wasn’t a just for shock value “cash-in” moment.

 

[kistan]

Based purely on twitter posts it seemed the show was kind of 50/50 in terms of quality. That said, what was good looked really good and I look forward to watching it tomorrow.

That said I was disappointed about Ugg winning then immediately losing the title. I’ve been an Ugg fan for a long time so I hope the plan is an eventual title run for him and that this wasn’t a just for shock value “cash-in” moment.

Ugg needed it really. He was a bit cold due to the change in direction. This at least can heat him back up and get the real win

 

[pleasetakealemon]

Endgame was huge win, it’s been said but the production was insane. It’s hard to think that it was the same venue that GCW and WSW ran because it just looked next level.

The show is a hole I really enjoyed there isn’t too much I wouldn’t give praise to. The battle Royale was about a Royal if it was a vessel to get Ryan rapid cooking then it served its purpose. I think he’s a good guy to use in that into Commonwealth scene where he can have good matches anywhere on the card.

Dusk/Ricky was probably my match of the night, limited by what they could do with the main also using weapons, but it was great in spite of the handcuffs. Their two matches sub 10 minutes has me stoked at what these two can do with a main event match. dusk as a face has finally clicked into place, the new music and the new look really felt like a level up. The crowd were very into him, some kids by my group were scared of him when he came out and screaming for him by the end.

Jarvis/Lucky felt very rushed. I don’t know if they were rushing. They were cut short but the match just felt like it happened. I don’t wanna sound like I’m shitting on it because it was like five minutes. There’s only so much there. It just felt oddly paced and odd to watch, feel like it kind of hurt the big Jarvis moment.

Triple Threat was good fun, what you’d expect from 3 great workers. Really well structured match, never felt like it came to a halt, was just perpetual motion. I do feel like Rob is kind of just there as champion. Not in a fault to his own, just the least important piece in the faction. I really hope the long term plan is he takes over Rocky or takes Rocky out to really heat him up as a heel. I really don’t want to see a face turn, Jarvis has turned, brooks is likely turning, it would be nice to just see some alignments stick for longer than a year. One of my friend that came is a primary school teacher and he described Thorpe as the ‘PE teacher that’s too handsome to be a teacher’ and it’s all I can see.

Slex/Ugg was really good, considering Slex was in hospital what a week ago the man doesn’t look like he’s missed a step it’s insane. Good match, felt like the crowd were a bit quiet from after the sacrament until these guys started really rolling, not in a bad way I just think it’s to be expected, but these guys had them eating out of their hands by the mid way point. Great moment for that finish of Ugg getting that moment before Ricky steals it away. I’ll be honest, I think this is best case because I’m just not interested in Ugg as champion. Great chase but I just feel him as the guy is limited. This way we get that moment and then in defeating him definitively down the line, Ricky gets that shine of taking Ugg out.

I don’t know how it shakes out, but Ugg, Slex, Dusk and Ricky is a pretty fantastic top of the card to be working with in the new year.

I won’t lie, I got caught in the food truck line so didn’t see a lot of the 6 man - my friends that came with said it was fun, they’ve never been to wrestling before so I guess that’s the right reaction! Big love from the girls for Mikey Broderick.

Erika/Eugenie was probably my low point, I don’t know if it’s the story they’re going for or if it’s just chemistry I’m not ‘in the biz’ enough to know but both their matches have just felt off. I get eugenie is dominating her but it kinda comes across as ‘we’re not sure what we’re doing’ I’m not sure. I don’t wanna be that guy telling wrestlers how to do it but it’s 0/2 on these for me personally! Shout out the production on Eugenies entrance though, looked incredible!

Main - look, happy the parea won, I think they’re superstars waiting be unleashed, awesome they’re off to the states. I think brooks is the best wrestler in the country and I think Rocky plays his role to perfection and people sleep on how good he is, I think they’ve done a fantastic job to build this match considering we’ve already seen and yet this still felt so important, all that fantastic and I love but this match was too long and just didn’t feel like what it was advertised. A year long blood feud, three stages of hell, and we start with like 5 minutes of slow plodding wrestling. It just felt wrong. I feel they would’ve been better off choosing a different gimmick or soemthing but it just never felt like it got out of first gear. It was good, and the home stretch was nice but it felt like when you’d go to a wwe show and they’d do the safest, slowest easiest hardcore match because they have to do it again the next night. Maybe the crew and I were just tired and it was enough wrestling for my friends for one night but it was a bit of a fizzle.

I’m super excited for 2025, the boards shuffled, new stories ready, stories ready to escalate, I’ve already written an essay at this point but really wanted to get it all out on the morning transit back to reality.