Australia's tail

[bird_man]

Our bowlers done a fantastic job with the bat in the first test, they managed to keep us in the game. How does this tail stack up to the bottom orders of our past? It has to be the strongest bottom 4 that I can remember. James Pattinson coming in at number 11 with a test average of around 30 is unbelievable.

Also, what does everyone think the order should be? They all have arguments to be put up the order but one of them has to bat at number 11.

 

[The Passenger]

Realistically of that group Siddle is probably the worst. Very handy guy to bat at 11.

Pattinson is probably the best suited to number 11 from a survival perspective. probably the most likely to hang around.

here's some interesting partnership statistics:

Australian partnerships by average last 12 months:
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;groupby=fow_wicket;orderby=fow_average;spanmax1=15 Jul 2013;spanmin1=15 Jul 2012;spanval1=span;team=2;template=results;type=fow

our 10th wicket partnership's are our fourth highest average of the 10. Also our sixth wicket stand is significantly higher than our 2nd and 3rd wicket stands, which are roughly on par with our 8th wicket stands.

it's not exactly an ashton agar outlier either, our 10th wicket stands for the 12 months prior to this still averaged higher (31) than our 2nd (28) and 3rd (25).

And it's not exactly a new phonomena.

This is the partnership averages over the last 3 years
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;groupby=fow_wicket;orderby=fow_average;spanmax2=15 Jul 2013;spanmin2=15 Jul 2010;spanval2=span;team=2;template=results;type=fow

Our 2nd wicket partnerships average (25) barely eclipsing our 10th wicket stand (24) over a very extended period.

 

[GeelongFTW]

It's remarkable how good our bowlers can bat except our batsmen collapse in a heap. We are in a rebuild phase i suppose.

 

[BG32]

Think it should go patto, agar, starc and siddle. Because patto is a very solid player he can attack and has a very strong defence. Agar can attack but his defence looks pretty loose. Starc is attacking and siddle is just a good tail end batsmen.

 

[GeelongFTW]

That awkward moment when our tail strikes more fear in the opposition than our top and middle order....

 

[Zach Package]

Agar looks a batsman for me, he'll probably end up batting in the middle order for WA, and frankly, could probably bat at 7 with Haddin pushing up to 6 should we need to play 5 bowlers, and we wouldn't miss a beat.

8 Agar
9 Siddle
10 Pattinson
11 Starc

IMO, Siddle and Patto are really solid, technically correct bats, Pattinson in particular i can see making some decent test runs.

3 lefties and 1 righty mean you can play around with it, it's always nice to have that R/L combo at the crease

 

[Caesar]

Starc is the most destructive, Siddle is the most solid defensively and probably the best at rotating strike. Pattinson is a combination of the two. Agar is almost a genuine bowling allrounder. We don't really have a genuine 10 or 11 so it gives you a lot of flexibility with how you bat the tailenders. I like the attitude they take at the moment, whereby they swap the order around a fair bit depending on the circumstances.

Need to stem a collapse, or farm strike to a batsman who is scoring lots of runs? Siddle.
Want to stretch a lead or close a gap quickly with some big hitting? Starc.
Guy up the other end struggling, need a partner who can take care of himself? Agar/Pattinson.

The only 'rule' I'd probably have is trying to avoid batting Starc and Pattinson together as much as possible. On the odd occasion they've been at the crease together I have not felt comfortable.

 

[frankrizzo]

Starc's batting might end up a bit like the other mitch, lots of very low scores with an occasional huge thumping innings in between.

In his 10 tests he already has 8 scores of 5 or less.

 

[Plugger35]

Definitely one of the strongest tails I can recall, although the likes of Warne, Reiffel, Lee, Bichel and Gillespie were pretty good but they always had a bunny in McGrath at no.11.

For the batting order you could swap the likes of Pattinson, Siddle and Starc around in any order as they have similar batting ability and are all capable of hanging around and making decent scores but Agar is a class above them and should bat at no.8.

 

[The Speaker]

Keep in mind that Starc is the one least likely to play Tests of the four.

Bird and Lyon are genuine number 11s (although Lyon is better). Faulkner is another bowling all-rounder. Harris can also bat.

 

[Doodlesweaver]

Definitely one of the strongest tails I can recall, although the likes of Warne, Reiffel, Lee, Bichel and Gillespie were pretty good but they always had a bunny in McGrath at no.11.

For the batting order you could swap the likes of Pattinson, Siddle and Starc around in any order as they have similar batting ability and are all capable of hanging around and making decent scores but Agar is a class above them and should bat at no.8.

Yes, from what I've seen of him batting here and in the Shield I wouldn't call Agar a tail-ender in any real sense. He's got room to develop that I don't think the others have in terms of batting potential.

 

[Carbine Chaos]

Why have a set tail? Just send whichever batsman out depending on the situation demands. Quick runs, Starc before Siddle/Pat. Need a nightwatchman or defensive player? Siddle first.

Agar at 8 sounds good though.

 

[dumb]

well they are getting a lot of practice these days...

hogg, lee, johnson, s clark circa 2008



averaged over 50 through '97, finished up averaging 26 with both bat and ball (economical rather than lots of wickets)

 

[bird_man]

well they are getting a lot of practice these days...

hogg, lee, johnson, s clark circa 2008



averaged over 50 through '97, finished up averaging 26 with both bat and ball (economical rather than lots of wickets)

Very underrated "Pistol". His record is fantastic. I Pattinson can retire in 12 years time with the same averages he has now, he'll be one of our greatest cricketers.

 

[Doodlesweaver]

Realistically of that group Siddle is probably the worst. Very handy guy to bat at 11.

Pattinson is probably the best suited to number 11 from a survival perspective. probably the most likely to hang around.

here's some interesting partnership statistics:

Australian partnerships by average last 12 months:
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;groupby=fow_wicket;orderby=fow_average;spanmax1=15 Jul 2013;spanmin1=15 Jul 2012;spanval1=span;team=2;template=results;type=fow

our 10th wicket partnership's are our fourth highest average of the 10. Also our sixth wicket stand is significantly higher than our 2nd and 3rd wicket stands, which are roughly on par with our 8th wicket stands.

it's not exactly an ashton agar outlier either, our 10th wicket stands for the 12 months prior to this still averaged higher (31) than our 2nd (28) and 3rd (25).

And it's not exactly a new phonomena.

This is the partnership averages over the last 3 years
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;groupby=fow_wicket;orderby=fow_average;spanmax2=15 Jul 2013;spanmin2=15 Jul 2010;spanval2=span;team=2;template=results;type=fow

Our 2nd wicket partnerships average (25) barely eclipsing our 10th wicket stand (24) over a very extended period.

Yep, if our batting doesn't get better - and if they continue with Clarke above 5, there is no reason to think it will get A LOT better, we will lose 4 out of 5 matches in this series. Our bowlers can't and won't do it all.

 

[Wallaby]

Realistically of that group Siddle is probably the worst. Very handy guy to bat at 11.

That would be Peter Siddle - the guy who 2 tests ago became the first player EVER in the history of Test Cricket to make 2 x 50s in a match batting at No 9. He's also our designated nightwatchman.

Agar's top score is 98. Pfft. Starc's is 99.

Pattinson averages almost 30.

It's an interesting problem. In all seriousness, Agar looks the best, Starc the most hit and miss. Pattinson and Siddle are just good tail-enders (as in good batsmen for tailenders).

Mind you, they have to be when with our top order.

I'd probably go Agar, ...., ...., Starc. For Siddle or Pattinson at No 8, it depends on who they are with. If it's another recognised batsman, I'd go Siddle. If it's Agar, I'd go Pattinson.

 

[Hellgood]

Keep in mind that Starc is the one least likely to play Tests of the four.

Bird and Lyon are genuine number 11s (although Lyon is better). Faulkner is another bowling all-rounder. Harris can also bat.

For the most part he has been pretty poor with the bat, but I just looked at his stats and recalled his matchwinning 68* against the West Indies last year (which I had completely forgotten about).

 

[Selective Retention]

Starc's batting might end up a bit like the other mitch, lots of very low scores with an occasional huge thumping innings in between.

In his 10 tests he already has 8 scores of 5 or less.

Patto is pretty consistant. Siddle and Starc are both hit and miss, Starc just does it more stylishly so it is more noticeable that he is up and down.

 

[Selective Retention]

For the most part he has been pretty poor with the bat, but I just looked at his stats and recalled his matchwinning 68* against the West Indies last year (which I had completely forgotten about).

Harris was surprisingly bad with the bat when he started at test level as he has always been nuisance value for Queensland. Always scores runs against Tasmania

 

[Slax]

To strengthen the tail up a bit I say drop Starc and bring in Faulkner

 

[bluespooner]

Siddle is clearly the least competent with the bat from that last test match lineup.

I wondered who decided Siddle should bat 8 in the first innings? It is possible to mount an argument that Siddle coming in before Pattison cost Australia that test match.

 

[Hellgood]

Siddle is clearly the least competent with the bat from that last test match lineup.

I wondered who decided Siddle should bat 8 in the first innings? It is possible to mount an argument that Siddle coming in before Pattison cost Australia that test match.

Siddle made a ton in the warm up match. He has also been very reliable for us over the last few years.