How should they change it up? What's the solution? I don't disagree about Marvel going downhill, just not sure it's an easy fix.
Movie Avengers - Endgame
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Zach Package
Prespakis2Tsatas
Yeah I'm very much engaged with the more deep cut story telling, and morally gray characters.
I know many out there hated Wakanda Forever because it didn't have a defined good v bad or hero v villain structure but I loved it.
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It was obviously never going to last forever, no cinematic trend does.
CarnTheScray
Norm Smith Medallist
Let’s not act like the MCU has followed the comics down to the tee.
CarnTheScray
Norm Smith Medallist
Wakanda Forever is one I haven’t watched yet despite watching all the others. I think it’s on Disney Plus so I might give it a go.
Ant Man on the other hand, what a terrible film.
Zach Package
Prespakis2Tsatas
Unfortunately it's by far the worst but by far the most consequential of the trilogy
peternorth
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- #1,132
I seem to concur. End game was the pinnacle and culmination of a long storytelling journey. It ends, and now we thinking weve been financially and spiritually invested in that adventure. How does one top that? Follow the same formula, introduce new characters and then a major villain to come?
The villains need to win more often. The Marvel formula is stale. It's not Superman IV Quest For Peace bad.... but it's getting close!!!
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- #1,134
I’ve said this elsewhere but people decrying the end of the MCU are way off.
It’s still commercially successful so in that respect it’s not ending even if you personal mileage may vary.
From a story telling POV people comparing the current slate of films to Infinity War and Endgame are doing it wrong.
Those films were the culmination of the story arc. 10+ years and 20+ films into.
If you want a comparative then go to Thor, Thor 2, Iron Man 2, First Avenger etc. there were plenty of average to bad films in the early days and plenty of filler. Of course the current releases aren’t endgame, that’s secret wars and Kang dynasty which are years away yet.
If you’ve personally tapped out that’s fair enough (I certainly don’t have the passion for them I once did) but marvel have already identified they were over saturating and moved to correct that, the rest is going along just fine.
It’s still commercially successful so in that respect it’s not ending even if you personal mileage may vary.
From a story telling POV people comparing the current slate of films to Infinity War and Endgame are doing it wrong.
Those films were the culmination of the story arc. 10+ years and 20+ films into.
If you want a comparative then go to Thor, Thor 2, Iron Man 2, First Avenger etc. there were plenty of average to bad films in the early days and plenty of filler. Of course the current releases aren’t endgame, that’s secret wars and Kang dynasty which are years away yet.
If you’ve personally tapped out that’s fair enough (I certainly don’t have the passion for them I once did) but marvel have already identified they were over saturating and moved to correct that, the rest is going along just fine.
Dirty Bird
Pokémon Master
Thing is, I feel phase 4 and phase 1 have been very similar.
It's just phase 1 was all flashy and new. So it appealed more.
But it was phase 2-3 which really built everything up. And you can start to see that direction in phase 5 (hopefully culminating in the 2 avengers movies in phase 6)
Dirty Bird
Pokémon Master
My plan was to stop MCU after Endgame. It did feel like a natural ending.
But the trailers for Spiderman 3 and Dr Strange 2 got me back into them. And once there, well, why not catch up. I had a holiday time for Black Panther 2. And I haven't gotten around to getting Disney+ yet. But once I do, it's probably the first thing I watch. Only MCU film I haven't watched.
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Endgame definitely felt like the logical end point.
I know nothing about the comics, but it's going to take a huge effort for the Kang dynasty to get anywhere close to where the Thanos era ended up I think.
I know nothing about the comics, but it's going to take a huge effort for the Kang dynasty to get anywhere close to where the Thanos era ended up I think.
Dirty Bird
Pokémon Master
They are?
2008 - 2 (Ironman 1, Hulk 1)
2009 - 0
2010 - 1 (Ironman 2)
2011 - 2 (Thor 1, Captain America 1)
2012 - 1 (Avengers 1)
2013 - 2 (Ironman 3, Thor 2)
2014 - 2 (Captain America 2, Guardians of the Galaxy 1)
2015 - 2 (Avengers 2, Antman 1)
2016 - 2 (Captain America 3, Dr Strange 1)
2017 - 3 (Guardians of the Galaxy 2, Spiderman 1, Thor 3)
2018 - 3 (Black Panther 1, Avengers 3, Antman 2)
2019 - 3 (Captain Marvel 1, Avengers 4, Spiderman 2)
2020 - 0
2021 - 4 (Black Widow 1, Shang-Chi 1, Eternals 1, Spiderman 3)
2022 - 3 (Dr Strange 2, Thor 4, Black Panther 2)
2023 - 3 (Antman 3, Guardians of the Galaxy 3, Captain Marvel 2)
2024 - 4 (Captain America 4, Thunderbolts 1, Blade 1, Deadpool 3*)
2025 - 2** (Fantastic Four 1, Avengers 5)
2026 - 1** (Avengers 6)
*First in MCU
** With most likely more to come out
Pre 2017 yeah, 1-2 a year
But since, 3+. So have they rectified the oversaturation? Idk. 2021 made sense (Catching up after not being able to release anything in 2020). But why is there 4 films in 2024?
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- #1,139
Fair point, i was more talking the ancillary stuff (TV and specials etc).
I think 3 a year is a reasonable amount, 21/22 had 7 movies and 8 tv shows i think?
They announced they were paring it back themselves, perhaps not as much as some of us might like but its considered.
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That's where the saturation has come for me (the TV shows).
Movies are ok, you can sit down in one evening and get through it. The multiple shows were adding up to the point where I've just flat missed some of them.
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- #1,141
Completely agree, its a minor correction to a pretty huge error on their part so im not championing it as some master stroke but also they probably could have kept churning it out and theyve noticed it and tried to correct course. So a tiny bit of credit for it.
I still think (much like Dirty Bird said) its pretty similar to phase 1 in terms of quality right now.
I also thought Shang Chi was pretty good and that Simu Liu could blow up into a quality lead for the franchise.
CarnTheScray
Norm Smith Medallist
I felt that Iron Man and Capt America: First Soldier were solid. Also helped that we got The Avengers (which was great) pretty early on, it was the third MCU film I had seen.
I enjoyed NWH and about half of MoM. The problem was the the most important film of the phase was the worst. The opposite of Phase 1.
- Sep 15, 2011
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A fair objection, I think, is that Endgame finished 11 years after the first movie. Secret Wars is planned for 2026 I think, which is only five years after things kicked off again, so that will also have an effect on how epic it feels.
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- #1,144
Yeh that probably is fair although there was a bit or work to establish the general lore and canon of comic book. It was niche, its not now so some of that stuff is done. Was also 4 years between Avengers 1 and 2.
Perhaps is not quite phase 1 as a comparative but something between 1 and 2.
I just think the whole "The MCU is dead and buried" is massively overstated.
Still making billions of dollars and the quality is still reasonable at worse (I havent seen Antman but the new Thor was still substantially better than the first and second).
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Equally, with more movies in these phases, it may be the same amount of films from 2021-2026 as 2008-2019,
peternorth
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