Bad Luck

[stokesy]

What did we all think of the game today?

We were disapointing in the last 10 mins of the 2nd quarter, and then we lifted and came back and we were unfire! Then we stopped again.

I thought we done pretty good without Fev and Lance, but those two would have made the difference.

The umpires seemed to kill us in the last quarter...

 

[Abaddon]

the umpiring was ****house, though its almost a given these days.

carlton had more scoring shots and should have won the game.

good effort without Whitnall and Fevola.
DeLuca, Prendergast, Walker, Fisher, Norman, Thornton, Johnson, Teague, Stevens, Scotland, Houlihan.
there is a lot to be optimistic about.

 

[stokesy]

I think the finals are out of our reach, although I am still hopeful that we can.

Next year I would be expecting us to be top 8 contenders.

 

[Blue Boyz]

Originally posted by stokesy
What did we all think of the game today?

We were disapointing in the last 10 mins of the 2nd quarter, and then we lifted and came back and we were unfire! Then we stopped again.

I thought we done pretty good without Fev and Lance, but those two would have made the difference.

The umpires seemed to kill us in the last quarter...

It's not bad luck when you have your chances to win.

Bad kicking equals bad football.

I think the last quarter showed that many of our players despite winning the last 3 games, still don't know how to win.

When the game was there to be won, most of the players stood back and waited for someone else to do it for them.

Today's game also showed up what I have been saying all year. The team has a very obvious lack of quality tall defenders. Thorton does a great job giving away cm's and kg's every week but in reality he would make a great BP or BFlanker. He plays FB because basically there is no one else who could do a better job and today he showed his physical limitations against a player the size of Hall.

Stevens was a great pick up but in reality would we have been better to recruit a tall like Rawlings or Jacobs??

The post season recruiting should be aimed at recruiting these type of players. Until we recruit or draft at least 2 tall marking/punching defenders we won't seriously challenge the better teams up the ladder.

 

[LordLucifer]

Re: Re: Bad Luck

Originally posted by Blue Boyz

Today's game also showed up what I have been saying all year. The team has a very obvious lack of quality tall defenders. Thorton does a great job giving away cm's and kg's every week but in reality he would make a great BP or BFlanker. He plays FB because basically there is no one else who could do a better job and today he showed his physical limitations against a player the size of Hall.

Hallelujah brother !!!!!!!!!

This is the first time I have read on any of the various Carlton forums anyone else say the same thing as I have for donkey's years.

Thornton is a terrific player but has been thrown into a key defender role due to our lack of big galoots down there. He will be an even better player than he is showing now if we can find some big units to fill out the main two spots.

 

[stokesy]

Yeah we do need a tall defender for sure, thats what I was saying to Dad the other week. If we can get a tall, reliable defender we will be a lot better - obvousily.

 

[Blue Boyz]

Originally posted by stokesy
Yeah we do need a tall defender for sure, thats what I was saying to Dad the other week. If we can get a tall, reliable defender we will be a lot better - obvousily.

I am sorry but for some Carlton posters it is not obvious that we lack tall defenders. Without wishing to be a "I told you so" contributor, I posted pre season that despite Carlton's recruitment of midfielders and forwards, we hadn't really gained any quality tall defenders and I was howled down among others as someone who looked at the negatives rather than the positives. So in one sense the "chooks unfortunately came home to roost on Saturday".

I take no solace in being proved right, hopefully the club can address this imbalance ASAP post season,

 

[DIG]

Originally posted by Blue Boyz
I am sorry but for some Carlton posters it is not obvious that we lack tall defenders. Without wishing to be a "I told you so" contributor, I posted pre season that despite Carlton's recruitment of midfielders and forwards, we hadn't really gained any quality tall defenders and I was howled down among others as someone who looked at the negatives rather than the positives. So in one sense the "chooks unfortunately came home to roost on Saturday".

I take no solace in being proved right, hopefully the club can address this imbalance ASAP post season,

While I agree about the tall defenders, i'm not sure if you've been "proved right". Remember our midfield was diabolical last year and needed urgent addressing itself. I was comfortable we took Stevens over Jade Rawlings. I think Bombers traded Jacobs for pick no 6 (Bradley)? Doubt we could have beaten that offer, not that we'd care in hindsight given the season he's had so far.

Lets hope we can trade for a key defender this year, but if we do it will be players we'd be trading not draft picks.

 

[stokesy]

Who would we trade?

Livingston...Davies...Campbell...Mott...Beasy...just a few names to throw in the air.

 

[Jimmae]

We have nothing we would want to trade... I think we have the defence covered well enough - you all forget Barry Hall is a huge CHF playing FF.

Thornton needs a little more body and though he may not be a genuine full-back he plays it well enough and will continue to excel.

Beasy and a first round pick? I thought it sounded stupid.

 

[Deej]

I don't know a carlton supporter who DOESN'T think we've got a big problem with key defenders. I have no idea what has inspired you two to say otherwise, I thought it was common knowledge that we were weak in big defenders, ruck, and absolute top shelf midfielders. Get 2 gun midfielders, a champion ruckman, and 2 big defenders, hell we'd win a flag or two in no time. But then, everyone else would with those players too.

 

[Blue Boyz]

Originally posted by Deej
I don't know a carlton supporter who DOESN'T think we've got a big problem with key defenders. I have no idea what has inspired you two to say otherwise, I thought it was common knowledge that we were weak in big defenders, ruck, and absolute top shelf midfielders. Get 2 gun midfielders, a champion ruckman, and 2 big defenders, hell we'd win a flag or two in no time. But then, everyone else would with those players too.

If you are referring to my comment that there are some Carlton supporters who don't acknowledge we have a defensive problem, you have to look no further than the post preceeding yours to see what I mean.


Jimmae wrote:

"We have nothing we would want to trade... I think we have the defence covered well enough - you all forget Barry Hall is a huge CHF playing FF."



I am sure the CFC Football Department are well and truly aware of this shortfall. I just wish all our supporters would realise without at least two big defenders we will remain also rans for a long time to come.

 

[Blue Boyz]

Originally posted by Deej
I don't know a carlton supporter who DOESN'T think we've got a big problem with key defenders. I have no idea what has inspired you two to say otherwise, I thought it was common knowledge that we were weak in big defenders, ruck, and absolute top shelf midfielders. Get 2 gun midfielders, a champion ruckman, and 2 big defenders, hell we'd win a flag or two in no time. But then, everyone else would with those players too.

Deej if you are referring to my comment that there are some Carlton supporters who don't acknowledge we have a defensive problem, you have to look no further than the post preceeding yours to see what I mean.


Jimmae wrote:

"We have nothing we would want to trade... I think we have the defence covered well enough - you all forget Barry Hall is a huge CHF playing FF."



I am sure the CFC Football Department are well and truly aware of this problem and hopefully spend the off season attempting to remedy this shortfall. I just wish all our supporters would realise without at least two big defenders we will remain also rans for a long time to come.

 

[Jimmae]

Hey, get ****ed - don't ever underline me as ignorant.

Defense IS covered this year. Compared the cohesion of the forward half and the midfield, defense IS covered.

Of course of defense isn't the best... but how many times have we been caught out because one of the oppositions midfielders has had free run and an opponent has gone on a lead and been hit lace out?

At the moment, defense is the least of our worries - we need one big defender.

On the other hand, we need one quick midfielder, one exceptional ruckman and everyone forward of defensive fifty needs a slap around the head to get them working together ALL the time.

Don't ever call me ignorant - subtly or otherwise.

 

[big_sav]

of course our defence isnt the best because we have a very young defence.

all of them have potential and if u just give them time to develop we will have one of the best defence in the league

karl norman is developing like nobody would have inmagined

bret thornton has got to be one of the best 21 year old full back in the comp

david teague has taken over the spot of andy mckay as the hard nut in defence

digby morrel is running into some good form.... he may not be a star of the future but he makes our best 22

and glen bowyer has not done much wrong this year

apart from bowyer all of these players are around the 190cm mark so their not short.

if u let thornton bulk up during pre season u will see that he will play better against the premier ff

ur thoughts?

 

[BluesPrez]

Originally posted by big_sav
of course our defence isnt the best because we have a very young defence.

all of them have potential and if u just give them time to develop we will have one of the best defence in the league

karl norman is developing like nobody would have inmagined

bret thornton has got to be one of the best 21 year old full back in the comp

david teague has taken over the spot of andy mckay as the hard nut in defence

digby morrel is running into some good form.... he may not be a star of the future but he makes our best 22

and glen bowyer has not done much wrong this year

apart from bowyer all of these players are around the 190cm mark so their not short.

if u let thornton bulk up during pre season u will see that he will play better against the premier ff

ur thoughts?

190cm is short mate. We want 193+cm players. 190cm is not big enough to take on the true big KPP in the comp. Hall, Tredrea, Gehrig, Riewoldt, J. Brown, Rocca - all 193 or over.

 

[Jimmae]

Originally posted by BluesPrez
190cm is short mate. We want 193+cm players. 190cm is not big enough to take on the true big KPP in the comp. Hall, Tredrea, Gehrig, Riewoldt, J. Brown, Rocca - all 193 or over.

Get out a ruler and look at how long 3 cm is you twit.

 

[Blue Boyz]

Originally posted by Jimmae
Hey, get ****ed - don't ever underline me as ignorant.

Defense IS covered this year. Compared the cohesion of the forward half and the midfield, defense IS covered.

Of course of defense isn't the best... but how many times have we been caught out because one of the oppositions midfielders has had free run and an opponent has gone on a lead and been hit lace out?

At the moment, defense is the least of our worries - we need one big defender.

On the other hand, we need one quick midfielder, one exceptional ruckman and everyone forward of defensive fifty needs a slap around the head to get them working together ALL the time.

Don't ever call me ignorant - subtly or otherwise.

Cool down Jimmae, I quoted your post to indicate to Deej that there were some Blues' supporters who had a contrary view to mine that our defence was a problem and needed a couple of big defenders.

No where did I indicate, infer or call you ignorant - sublty or otherwise and I certainly don't appreciate being told to "get fffffffed", just because I have an opposing view to yourself!!!!!

I offer my apologies if you took my post as a personal slight upon yourself, as that certainly wasn't my intention.

As far the content of your post, with all due respect I think your are well off the mark when you think that "our defense is the least of our worries". While I believe our best defender Thorton does a great job at FB despite his lack of size, the reality is that he is being played out of position due to the lack of other alternatives. And other taller options like Norman, Waite, Sporn and possiblely Walker are a couple (several?) of years being experienced enough or physically capable of holding down a key position on some other big FF or CHF's of the comp. Again this is my personal view only, and not an intention to insult your football intellect.

I truly believe if we had of picked up a couple of big capable marking and rebounding defenders this year along with the acquistion of Stevens, Scotland, Teague, DeLuca etc, and the natural improvement in Fevola, we would have the firepower to be challenging teams like North for the 7th or 8th position.

With our present defence deficiencies we will always be stretched by teams who have 2 or 3 big forwards and that has been evidence by the shellackings we have got from St. K, Melbourne, Essendon and Brisbane where our undersized and undermanned defence couldn't hold all the scoring options.

Again I don't appreciate your personal abuse when I didn't do anything to provoke your criticism and overreaction, other than offer a different opinion than yourself.

A piece of useful advice for you to think about would to be to save the personal vitriol up for more deserving targets like the supporters of the Saints, Collingwood or Essendon, rather than abuse a fellow club supporter who like you, has the club's best long term interests at heart but may have an opposing view to yourself.

 

[Thrawn]

Woah, very hot thread! Okay, now fo my view: Thornton does a terrific job at FB and most of time he beats his man. Along with him, Norman and Teague, they are the only 'solid players' in our backline. By solid I mean they can get the job done and restrict their man whilst doing the team stuff (1 percenters, spoils, shepards, tackles without getting too many stats). However, there is still a glarring weakness - small defenders. I think they we need at least one big body down there to help Thornton out and stop the bigger forwards from dominating, but look at the players who have killed us on the scoreboard. With the exception of Hall and possibly Thompson, the big gorillas have not been so damaging as they usually are. Rather the small forwards and midfielders have killed us.

If you look at most of our games, you will find that the small forwards are kicking bags. Medhurst, Williams, Motlop, et al. These players in particular we don't seem to have a defense against. Norman can play on a small, but we often use him for bigger opponents as key forwards in most opposition sides tend to be big. Smaller fellas always seem to go under our guard and come from no where. This is a serious problem and must be addressed - we cannot replace McKay ASAP.

On the issue on big defenders however, we need at least one big body who is strong and fast. One that is capable of rebounding. This althleticism is vital and Thornton does not have too much - but Norman does. One more big body to take the pressure off Thornton along with Norman and Tegue make a really solid backline. All we need are speedy players that can rebound and match it with the smalls. Oh, and a big body of course... you will find that most sides have big strong backman secondary to their FBs and CHBs - intimitation is a huge factor and it just be used. A monster weighing 102kgs and 197cm tall would put doubts into forward's minds especially if this guy can take huge pack marks.

 

[Thrawn]

We shouldn't be too top heavy on our defense - this will just mean the smalls will have a picnic. A balanced defense is perfect - three talls and three shorts/mediums. Thornton and Norman are talls, and for shorts? Wiggins, Teague, Bowyer, Sporn (although he is more suited inthe midfield), Houlihan, Lappin...

Lappin, Sporn and Houlihan are attacking players so we should always play to their strengths (two of them are easily made crumbers up forward). But we need defensive players down there to stop the small forwards. And another 'attacking' tall. Teague is excellent, but Wiggins and Bowyer aren't too good in a defensive position. We must also look for options beyond Lappin... because he won't be playing forever. We must address this because look at how much damage McKay and Silvagni's absences created, not to mention Ratten and Hickmott's. Leadership, skill and tenacity - all three together are hard to replace and Lappin has all those qualities.

 

[Jimmae]

In my view defense is a problem - if you don't want to anger people, watch how you phrase your message.