Beau Waters

[bigman]

I noticed with interest Beau is out with a groin injury for some time.

This could be the time to pounce.

He will be at a low ebb, and we may be able to get him for a lower price, because of this condition.

Other players like Butler and Stenglein and a tough bloke off the half back flank, whose name escapes me, have gone ahead of him meaning that WCE might look favourably at a swap, particularly if they finish one and two and they are looking for a high draft pick, given they have many of these types of players in the midfield.

This is particularly the case if Waters wishes to come back home.

I think we need his hardness in the midfield. Together with Thompson we could potentially have a hard tough unit to take the strain off the Roo. We can then look at getting a quick, highly skilled runner in the draft.

What do others think???

 

[conVINCEd]

A lot can still happen before the end of the year, but it would be a great get if Beau came home.

Our midfield looks a lot harder with Thompson adding to Roo's bite, but when Roo goes, we're left with one sole aggressor again.

Not sure what we'd have to give up to get him - obviously depends on the circumstances (eg. whether he wants to come home, if he is still having injury problems) - but if we could keep our first round pick, I'd be stoked.

 

[noddy]

I noticed with interest Beau is out with a groin injury for some time.

This could be the time to pounce.

He will be at a low ebb, and we may be able to get him for a lower price, because of this condition.

Other players like Butler and Stenglein and a tough bloke off the half back flank, whose name escapes me, have gone ahead of him meaning that WCE might look favourably at a swap, particularly if they finish one and two and they are looking for a high draft pick, given they have many of these types of players in the midfield.

This is particularly the case if Waters wishes to come back home.

I think we need his hardness in the midfield. Together with Thompson we could potentially have a hard tough unit to take the strain off the Roo. We can then look at getting a quick, highly skilled runner in the draft.

What do others think???

From what i've seen of him he would definitely fit in along side Thompson, Mattner, Reilly & Stiffy as our future gun mid-field.

But very much doubt we will have the readies to entice the Eagles to come & talk the trade talk.

 

[Lozza71]

Beau has been in Adelaide staying with his parents.

I don't like to say this but he loves it in Perth, with the Eagles, and does not want to leave and will not leave.

I would love to see him in a Crows jumper though.

 

[afc9798]

I noticed with interest Beau is out with a groin injury for some time.

This could be the time to pounce.

He will be at a low ebb, and we may be able to get him for a lower price, because of this condition.

Other players like Butler and Stenglein and a tough bloke off the half back flank, whose name escapes me, have gone ahead of him meaning that WCE might look favourably at a swap, particularly if they finish one and two and they are looking for a high draft pick, given they have many of these types of players in the midfield.

This is particularly the case if Waters wishes to come back home.

I think we need his hardness in the midfield. Together with Thompson we could potentially have a hard tough unit to take the strain off the Roo. We can then look at getting a quick, highly skilled runner in the draft.

What do others think???

It's a bit hard to negotiate a deal mid-year when it is not allowed under the rules of the comp. and I can't see WCE being prepared to even consider negotiations. Waters was well and truly a required player, hence he wasn't used in the mix for the Stenglein trade. Don't think that has changed and any approach by us would be in breach of the rules and would be severely punished. The most you could do would be to talk to his manager, who would be all about upping his clients asking price.

 

[Alex99]

“What are we going to give up for him” first round draft pick? No ********ing way , not again, well not this year any way. By all means trade the first round pick when we have the opportunity to draft a very good young player like Bryce Gibbs but not this year. A player for player trade or nothing.

 

[conVINCEd]

It's a bit hard to negotiate a deal mid-year when it is not allowed under the rules of the comp. and I can't see WCE being prepared to even consider negotiations. Waters was well and truly a required player, hence he wasn't used in the mix for the Stenglein trade. Don't think that has changed and any approach by us would be in breach of the rules and would be severely punished. The most you could do would be to talk to his manager, who would be all about upping his clients asking price.

Is it not allowed?

What about Collingwood's offer to Jonathon Brown?

What about our mid-year contract with Carey?

Obviously, even if a contract is signed there is no guarantee that the player would get to the club of his choice, but I'm pretty sure you are allowed to talk and sign a deal if you want. Can anyone shed more light on the rules regarding this?

At the very least we should be talking to him, encouraging him to come home, espeically if he is in SA at the moment.

 

[GoSarge]

I noticed with interest Beau is out with a groin injury for some time.

This could be the time to pounce.

He will be at a low ebb, and we may be able to get him for a lower price, because of this condition.

Other players like Butler and Stenglein and a tough bloke off the half back flank, whose name escapes me, have gone ahead of him meaning that WCE might look favourably at a swap, particularly if they finish one and two and they are looking for a high draft pick, given they have many of these types of players in the midfield.

This is particularly the case if Waters wishes to come back home.

I think we need his hardness in the midfield. Together with Thompson we could potentially have a hard tough unit to take the strain off the Roo. We can then look at getting a quick, highly skilled runner in the draft.

What do others think???

Keep it simple. If it was a simple trade for a first round draft pick - go for it, he's worth that. If it were going to cost us more than that in terms of picks and players, then no way. It'd be nice to get him, but it isn't crucial.

 

[GoSarge]

“What are we going to give up for him” first round draft pick? No ********ing way , not again, well not this year any way. By all means trade the first round pick when we have the opportunity to draft a very good young player like Bryce Gibbs but not this year. A player for player trade or nothing.

You dont think he's worth a first rounder ? If we had pick 10--> 15 then I'd part with it for sure, if we had 1-->10 I'd have to think about it.

We were prepared to part with pick 12 for Thompson and that turned out great, which I am sure you'd agree so I am not sure I am understanding your rationale

And having the opportunity to draft Bryce Gibbs should have no relevance on whether we are prepared to trade a first round pick. It doesn't alter its value at all, so I think that part of your argument is flawed.

 

[Alex99]

You dont think he's worth a first rounder ? If we had pick 10--> 15 then I'd part with it for sure, if we had 1-->10 I'd have to think about it.

We were prepared to part with pick 12 for Thompson and that turned out great, which I am sure you'd agree so I am not sure I am understanding your rationale

And having the opportunity to draft Bryce Gibbs should have no relevance on whether we are prepared to trade a first round pick. It doesn't alter its value at all, so I think that part of your argument is flawed.

A pick in the first 10, no I would not support it, the club would have to add up every part of the drafting equation to determine if there are enough good players. (Depth of draft, players we would need and position of player we need), but 11-20 and it turned out to be a good get as in the Scott Thompson trade, yes that would be ‘value for money’.

The point of Bryce Gibbs is we are already guaranteed a top 2 or 3 players so gaining something extra that can step into the side straight away (rather than in 15 months time, like most players drafted below the top 3 or 4) will help the development of the side no end.

 

[afc9798]

Is it not allowed?

What about Collingwood's offer to Jonathon Brown?

What about our mid-year contract with Carey?

Obviously, even if a contract is signed there is no guarantee that the player would get to the club of his choice, but I'm pretty sure you are allowed to talk and sign a deal if you want. Can anyone shed more light on the rules regarding this?

At the very least we should be talking to him, encouraging him to come home, espeically if he is in SA at the moment.

No it isn't allowed. You can talk to the player's management, but you cannot talk directly to a contracted player. Collingwood only tabled a possible scenario withy Brown's management and they never spoke to him directly.

In regards to Carey, the AFC were given permission to talk to Carey, due to the special circumstances. This had to be OK'd by the AFL at the time, who determined that it was in the best interests of the comp. for teams to be allowed to negotiate with Carey mid year. As far as I know, no deal can be signed or ratified, whilst the player is under contract. The only exception would be if a club granted a player the right to hold talks. The penalties for approaching contracted players are huge.

 

[theorangeapple]

I don't like to say this but he loves it in Perth, with the Eagles, and does not want to leave and will not leave.

beautiful ------ music to my ears.

i hope like hell you are right.

As i said before, IF Beau wanted to leave then i dont think we would be totally upset aslong as we get a first round pick (it will have to be that...nothing else) which we can use to get a key forward (when combined with our 1st round pick).

if you dont want to come to the party. im sure port will. i dont know why you would be against trading him for a first round pick. he is only 19, was pick 11 himself and has proven to be a good player. its not like he is us some 29year old wash up.

 

[The Crows Truth]

beautiful ------ music to my ears.

i hope like hell you are right.

As i said before, IF Beau wanted to leave then i dont think we would be totally upset aslong as we get a first round pick (it will have to be that...nothing else) which we can use to get a key forward (when combined with our 1st round pick).

if you dont want to come to the party. im sure port will. i dont know why you would be against trading him for a first round pick. he is only 19, was pick 11 himself and has proven to be a good player. its not like he is us some 29year old wash up.

Spot on Mr Orange. Beau for pick 7-11 is spot on - and the |Crows would seriously look at this also

 

[Crowked]

You can talk to the player's management, but you cannot talk directly to a contracted player.

JR & JF should have a perminant booking with Water's and Pavlich's managers every Monday morning for an hour until they come home, as well as a phone call every night in between, twice on Fridays.

I can imaging the meeting between Pav and his manager.
Pav: So whats the latest on the contract negotiations?
Manager: Pav, FFS go home, please!!!!!, and take Waters with you, and tell JR to stop fooking ringing!!!!

 

[Mong]

A first round pick would seem like a decent trade on our behalf. It would only happen if Beau initiated it obviously. West Coast wouldn't be interested otherwise. He was initially taken at 11 (?) I think. Since then he has progressed well from what I gather so there isn't quite the same risk of a draft pick. And the way we are going our first round pick will probably be around 10ish, give or take a couple.

I am usually against trading away draft picks, particularly first rounders. But I see no problem with it for someone like this who is a good player and is only 19/20. The attraction of a first round draft pick is you add quality youth to the list. A trade for someone like Waters follows that ideal so in a case such as this, I would happily accept a trade for our first round pick.

But first Beau must want to come home. That's the biggest hurdle in this. I have no doubt that we are monitoring his intentions though. We'll speak to him for sure.

 

[conVINCEd]

No it isn't allowed. You can talk to the player's management, but you cannot talk directly to a contracted player. Collingwood only tabled a possible scenario withy Brown's management and they never spoke to him directly.

In regards to Carey, the AFC were given permission to talk to Carey, due to the special circumstances. This had to be OK'd by the AFL at the time, who determined that it was in the best interests of the comp. for teams to be allowed to negotiate with Carey mid year. As far as I know, no deal can be signed or ratified, whilst the player is under contract. The only exception would be if a club granted a player the right to hold talks. The penalties for approaching contracted players are huge.

Ah k, thanks for clearing that up afc9798.

Interesting to see the Pies are after another Lion, this time Luke Power.

Surely they realise the Lions hate them?

Guess they're simply trying to shake the tree as hard as they can, hoping someone will fall out.

 

[conVINCEd]

JR & JF should have a perminant booking with Water's and Pavlich's managers every Monday morning for an hour until they come home, as well as a phone call every night in between, twice on Fridays.

I can imaging the meeting between Pav and his manager.
Pav: So whats the latest on the contract negotiations?
Manager: Pav, FFS go home, please!!!!!, and take Waters with you, and tell JR to stop fooking ringing!!!!

 

[GoSarge]

The point of Bryce Gibbs is we are already guaranteed a top 2 or 3 players so gaining something extra that can step into the side straight away (rather than in 15 months time, like most players drafted below the top 3 or 4) will help the development of the side no end.

Yup, I can see the point re the Bryce Gibbs situation and you make a good case, but I dont agree with it. I just dont think that should have any influence on the first round pick AT ALL.

Example - I heard somewhere, that North Melb used picks 10 and 26 on Nathan Thompson, but probably wouldn't have given them up if they didnt get Jesse Smith under the fs rule.

Why should the drafting of Jesse Smith have any influence (and lets face it, we dont even know if it did) on the fact they gave up 10 and 26 to fill a KPP need ?

 

[Mong]

I agree with you Go Sarge.

 

[theorangeapple]

Yup, I can see the point re the Bryce Gibbs situation and you make a good case, but I dont agree with it. I just dont think that should have any influence on the first round pick AT ALL.

Example - I heard somewhere, that North Melb used picks 10 and 26 on Nathan Thompson, but probably wouldn't have given them up if they didnt get Jesse Smith under the fs rule.

Why should the drafting of Jesse Smith have any influence (and lets face it, we dont even know if it did) on the fact they gave up 10 and 26 to fill a KPP need ?

we got mitch morton f/s and i think that played a big part in us trading our first 2 picks for stenglien. like north did with smith, i think we thought, we would have been wrapt to get mitch at pick 12. we are getting him anyway in the 3rd round, we can get better value for the first round pick elsewhere.

 

[Portia]

Thing is, it would be entirely fair to say that both Kangas and WCE overpaid. Why not be accountable with all selections? Anything else is a copout.

 

[Crowked]

Thing is, it would be entirely fair to say that both Kangas and WCE overpaid. Why not be accountable with all selections? Anything else is a copout.

If this is the case you would have to say Freo paid over the odds for Carr too, wouldnt you?

Not that you would be complaining, three picks (including # 11 over all) for a very good but not really a champion player is a bargain IMO.

 

[Mong]

If this is the case you would have to say Freo paid over the odds for Carr too, wouldnt you?

Compared to what we paid for Scott Thompson, and what Melbourne paid to get Moloney, both WC and Freo appear to have paid too high for Stenglein and Carr.

Or perhaps it shows the premium price you pay for players that are at their peak.

 

[outback jack]

If this is the case you would have to say Freo paid over the odds for Carr too, wouldnt you?

Not that you would be complaining, three picks (including # 11 over all) for a very good but not really a champion player is a bargain IMO.

i'm of the opinion that port knew he was going so really boosted the image of him. He is nothing more than a hard working in and under player. Definitely not a star, or potential one. He did nothing in the finals it was all Roger James that was getting the hard ball. Carr and hardwick were just starting fights everywhere.

 

[outback jack]

Yup, I can see the point re the Bryce Gibbs situation and you make a good case, but I dont agree with it. I just dont think that should have any influence on the first round pick AT ALL.

Example - I heard somewhere, that North Melb used picks 10 and 26 on Nathan Thompson, but probably wouldn't have given them up if they didnt get Jesse Smith under the fs rule.

Why should the drafting of Jesse Smith have any influence (and lets face it, we dont even know if it did) on the fact they gave up 10 and 26 to fill a KPP need ?

i agree that we shouldnt be trading the first rounder off just cause we get a good father son. Jimmy should be weighing up the draft each yr and saying what value the first rounder has, and determining whether we will be able to get some good players with some later picks. For instance in 2002 when we traded the wells pick, jimmy should have said that really only the top 10 or so are any good so lets keep this pick. When we get a draft that has some good depth with later picks or say if we have pick 14 and its considered than most of the good talent will be gone by then then we trade. And i'd trade a first rounder for waters as long as it wasnt too high, which it looks like it wont be. As long as we dont have a pick in that top grp (there were five gun players this yr) then we should definitely trade cause he is very young and has shown already that he will make it.