Roast Ben Reid #50 in Mike Sheahan's Top 50

[Number 10]

How many Gfs has Franklin put them in since 2008? How many bags of goals? He is so over rated. Rocca was a better forward. Cloke is a better forward than him since his kicking has improved. Franklins in accuracy for goal is pathetic. How many frees does he give away per game?

Wow, I thought u were being sarcastic. That is ridiculous. Even as a hater of Hawthorn, I wouldn't put him out of the top 3 in the comp.

You could easily say why didn't Buckley win us at least 1 Premiership? You're point is null and void and no-one will agree with you.

 

[THATSGOLD]

Wow, I thought u were being sarcastic. That is ridiculous. Even as a hater of Hawthorn, I wouldn't put him out of the top 3 in the comp.

You could easily say why didn't Buckley win us at least 1 Premiership? You're point is null and void and no-one will agree with you.

Never actually said where i'd put him i just don't think he is the greatest player playing our game right now!

 

[THATSGOLD]

I didn't say I agreed with that one (I didn't write that btw). But if you don't think that Franklin is a top 3 or so player in the league then you're clueless.

You didn't write the list where you had sandliands in the top 10? Did your mum write it perhaps?

 

[Rusty22]

1.pendles
2.swan
3.cloke

15 more days felllas!

 

[THATSGOLD]

1.pendles
2.swan
3.cloke

15 more days felllas!

Funny thing is if we had of won one more quarter of footy this would be most peoples list! GO PIES!

 

[Avatar]

You didn't write the list where you had sandliands in the top 10? Did your mum write it perhaps?

The thread title should give you a clue who wrote the list.

 

[THATSGOLD]

The thread title should give you a clue who wrote the list.

So youre sayin you know Mike has Sandilands in his top 10 then? that would provide even more LOLZ

 

[robertg22]

You didn't write the list where you had sandliands in the top 10? Did your mum write it perhaps?

 

[Avatar]

So youre sayin you know Mike has Sandilands in his top 10 then? that would provide even more LOLZ

I'm saying I know what you know (11-50)

I'm also saying the alleged top 10 list provided came via the following link:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/archives/old-sport-pages/old-sport-2011/afl/mikes-top-50

You may have missed it posted earlier in the thread?

We only have to wait until tomorrow to see if it's right

 

[jimmy35]

Stop posting... you're embarrassing yourself.

Not enough unfortunately.

 

[Pera]

If we are going on a top 50 for the end of the year, I'm surprised I didnt see Nic Nat in Sandilands spot. With more time in the ruck, he could really blossom this year.

 

[Ed D]

I wouldn't read too much into the pick your own team list, but I guess time will tell.

 

[Chewy]

Re: Ben Reid #50 on Sheenan Top 50

Ben Reid has had 2 elite years

Elite: The best or most skilled members of a group

Ben Reid finished 7th in last year's Copeland Trophy and didn't even crack the top 10 in 2010. Going by the votes of your own match committee, Reid is not amongst Collingwood's elite, let alone amongst the AFL's elite

I'm not knocking Reid. I think he is a very good player. But people use the word "elite" far too readily these days. Even if Mike Sheahan placed Reid higher up his list to appease the Magpie fans - let's say at number 30? - this still wouldn't make him elite. Elite Collingwood footballers: Pendlebury and Swan, with Cloke and Thomas knocking on the door. (or there already depending on how strict you are with the definition)

I think we debated about Ben Reid in last year's All Australian thread. Back then my contention was defenders from dominant teams, CHBs in particular, can often stand out due to a lower degree of difficulty than the defenders from dysfunctional bottom 8 teams. Some backmen get put under the pump constantly because their team-mates turn the ball over, don't chase their men, don't get back in time to set up a zone and don't get across to provide a chop-out. In this way, Reid benefits from playing with a great team, but this doesn't necessarily make him better or worse than other defenders. It would be good (educational) to see how he goes when Collingwood are struggling.

The problem with these Top 50 lists is there is a natural tendency for people to load them up with players from the top 3-4 teams. They go overboard. There are roughly 700 AFL players. I don't believe for a second that Collingwood, Geelong, Hawthorn and Carlton have 20-25 of the best 50 individuals on their lists. People get carried away. They assume these teams are the best because their players are more talented than everyone else's. I think that is only partly the truth. The talent is very evenly spread in the AFL. The main reason those teams are the best is their talent is harnessed better by the coaches, the team's weaknesses are covered and their players work better collectively as a team.

This is just my opinion, of course. We all have opinions. You, me, Mike Sheahan. I think Reid has all the tools to be the AFL's premier defender, but I think you might be a tad hasty in thinking he's already there. I saw Jonathan Hay play two of the most dominant seasons ever in defence in 2000-2001 and he never repeated that form.

Hopefully you don't mind me intruding on this board and posting here. This thread came up when I searched for Mike's Top 50.

 

[TradeDraft]

Re: Ben Reid #50 on Sheenan Top 50

Elite: The best or most skilled members of a group

Ben Reid finished 7th in last year's Copeland Trophy and didn't even crack the top 10 in 2010. Going by the votes of your own match committee, Reid is not amongst Collingwood's elite, let alone amongst the AFL's elite

I'm not knocking Reid. I think he is a very good player. But people use the word "elite" far too readily these days. Even if Mike Sheahan placed Reid higher up his list to appease the Magpie fans - let's say at number 30? - this still wouldn't make him elite. Elite Collingwood footballers: Pendlebury and Swan, with Cloke and Thomas knocking on the door. (or there already depending on how strict you are with the definition)

I think we debated about Ben Reid in last year's All Australian thread. Back then my contention was defenders from dominant teams, CHBs in particular, can often stand out due to a lower degree of difficulty than the defenders from dysfunctional bottom 8 teams. Some backmen get put under the pump constantly because their team-mates turn the ball over, don't chase their men, don't get back in time to set up a zone and don't get across to provide a chop-out. In this way, Reid benefits from playing with a great team, but this doesn't necessarily make him better or worse than other defenders. It would be good (educational) to see how he goes when Collingwood are struggling.

The problem with these Top 50 lists is there is a natural tendency for people to load them up with players from the top 3-4 teams. They go overboard. There are roughly 700 AFL players. I don't believe for a second that Collingwood, Geelong, Hawthorn and Carlton have 20-25 of the best 50 individuals on their lists. People get carried away. They assume these teams are the best because their players are more talented than everyone else's. I think that is only partly the truth. The talent is very evenly spread in the AFL. The main reason those teams are the best is their talent is harnessed better by the coaches, the team's weaknesses are covered and their players work better collectively as a team.

This is just my opinion, of course. We all have opinions. You, me, Mike Sheahan. Hopefully you don't mind me intruding on this board and posting here. This thread came up when I searched for Mike's Top 50.

You Don't Think Cloke is Elite

You just lost your Argument there mate

 

[Chewy]

Elite Collingwood footballers: Pendlebury and Swan, with Cloke and Thomas knocking on the door (or there already depending on how strict you are with the definition)

For god's sake...

 

[TradeDraft]

We where all Correct Buddy was Number 1.

Cloke at 5 and Pendles at 7 which I think is underrating Pendles

10

Joel Selwood


Geelong





9

Dane Swan


Collingwood






8

Jimmy Bartel


Geelong






7

Scott Pendlebury


Collingwood






6

Adam Goodes


Sydney






5

Travis Cloke


Collingwood






4

Chris Judd


Carlton






3

Aaron Sandilands


Fremantle






2

Gary Ablett


Gold Coast






1

Lance Franklin


Hawthorn

 

[Suspense]

Re: Ben Reid #50 on Sheenan Top 50

In this way, Reid benefits from playing with a great team, but this doesn't necessarily make him better or worse than other defenders.

it's a good point and the main problem i have with these sorts of lists. the issue for mine has to do with what these sorts of lists try to do, that is to isolate the player from the environment (team, coach, structures, club, facilities, numerous intangibles etc.) that they actually play in.

i think it is quite difficult to do this with any sort of accuracy, but it has to be done; not for the purposes of sheenan's bi-annual circlejerk, but for the purpose of evaluating players for recruitment.

 

[mattys123]

Sandilands at 3, wow, Mike must really be on some good stuff, he won't play 12 games this year, he's too injury prone.

Pendles at 7 is just a joke, he was/is a top 3 player IMO.

It's Mikes opinion though, so I'll let it pass, I really don't care.

 

[THATSGOLD]

Looks like Dane Swan is in for a shit year according to Mike. Not sure how you can judge that after being the number 1 player in the comp for 2 years running.

Sandilands at 3 sums up the whole credibility of the list.

Its a shame Tarrant won't be there round 1 to show up this so called number 1 player in the comp.

 

[TradeDraft]

Sandilands at 3, wow, Mike must really be on some good stuff, he won't play 12 games this year, he's too injury prone.

Pendles at 7 is just a joke, he was/is a top 3 player IMO.

It's Mikes opinion though, so I'll let it pass, I really don't care.

That's why I rated Ralphs Top 10 Better then Old Mike

 

[Taco]

Looks like Dane Swan is in for a shit year according to Mike. Not sure how you can judge that after being the number 1 player in the comp for 2 years running.

Sandilands at 3 sums up the whole credibility of the list.

Its a shame Tarrant won't be there round 1 to show up this so called number 1 player in the comp.

Except that he wasn't the number 1 player last year (or if you insist on using the Brownlow to determine the number 1 player, then he wasn't the number 1 player in 2010.)

 

[danielnajdek]

Blah.

Judd in front of Swan and Pendles. O righty Mike

 

[boxy2010]

We should be proud to have three pies players in the top 10

Not sure that I agree with Pendles position, should be top three IMO

 

[robertg22]

We should be proud to have three pies players in the top 10

Not sure that I agree with Pendles position, should be top three IMO

Absolutely. 4 in the top 11, counting Daisy.

 

[HFF]

Pendles too low for mine.

Clearly a top 3 player. Found it a little insulting that Mike suggested others may reach greater heights, considering what Pendles has already achieved and with more to come.

Overall 4 in the top 11 is an awesome effort and just highlights the quality in our list.

Reid is also better than the 50th best player.