Ben Simmons - if he had grown up playing footy

[PP34]

The idea that you cant see him dominating a tall forward or tall back position is equally as bizarre.

I’m saying he wasn’t that great of a footballer. He was good ruckmen because he was already pretty tall at age 13 and he obviously had a good leap.

This notion that he would be a Buddy type footballer is laughable.

Everyone I know who either played against him or saw him play agrees with me. Obviously he quit footy very early, but he had all the makings of being one of those basketball players that teams try and turn into an a AFL star to mixed success. I’m sure with his height he could have been an effective ruckmen.

The media and blokes like Petracca talking him up like he was a superstar in the making is hyperbole. Petracca isn’t exactly going to come out and s**t on him and the media is going to believe anything Petracca says.

He was a gun ruckmen in his junior years. Wasn’t like he was one of those gun juniors who dominates in every position they play. He was a ruck. His athletic ability and height would have probably seen him drafted as a high pick ruckmen if he did continue to be good during juniors.

But that’s a long way from him automatically being Buddy.

 

[Vic pokiesmon]

I’m saying he wasn’t that great of a footballer. He was good ruckmen because he was already pretty tall at age 13 and he obviously had a good leap.

This notion that he would be a Buddy type footballer is laughable.

Everyone I know who either played against him or saw him play agrees with me. Obviously he quit footy very early, but he had all the makings of being one of those basketball players that teams try and turn into an a AFL star to mixed success. I’m sure with his height he could have been an effective ruckmen.

The media and blokes like Petracca talking him up like he was a superstar in the making is hyperbole. Petracca isn’t exactly going to come out and s**t on him and the media is going to believe anything Petracca says.

He was a gun ruckmen in his junior years. Wasn’t like he was one of those gun juniors who dominates in every position they play. He was a ruck. His athletic ability and height would have probably seen him drafted as a high pick ruckmen if he did continue to be good during juniors.

But that’s a long way from him automatically being Buddy.

With his ball handling and vision the challenge would have been turning him into the next level big bodied mid.His athletic traits stand out in NBA .The unknown is his aerobic capacity but he would have shat on anything in AFL if he was developed correctly.....Name a rookie Afl player who was ever expected to take a player to a premiership?

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

With his ball handling and vision the challenge would have been turning him into the next level big bodied mid.His athletic traits stand out in NBA .The unknown is his aerobic capacity but he would have shat on anything in AFL if he was developed correctly.....Name a rookie Afl player who was ever expected to take a player to a premiership?

He turns 22 this year and nobody expected him to take them to a championship.

 

[PP34]

With his ball handling and vision the challenge would have been turning him into the next level big bodied mid.His athletic traits stand out in NBA .The unknown is his aerobic capacity but he would have shat on anything in AFL if he was developed correctly.....Name a rookie Afl player who was ever expected to take a player to a premiership?

He would have been a ruckmen. Far too tall to be clean and quick enough at ground level at the AFL level.

 

[Vic pokiesmon]

He would have been a ruckmen. Far too tall to be clean and quick enough at ground level at the AFL level.

Disagree.Hes great below his knees.Remember Cripps,Bont etc are taller than many ruckman from the 60s.In the future some mids will be 205-210 cm.Only question is how long into future.

 

[The_Eagles]

Alan Iverson would’ve kicked ass

 

[The King!]

Could he have been any good at cricket, because there are a few open spots

 

[liam123]

Disagree.Hes great below his knees.Remember Cripps,Bont etc are taller than many ruckman from the 60s.In the future some mids will be 205-210 cm.Only question is how long into future.

Can’t see it happening. Big blokes are going to be a liability going forward with head knocks etc on the little blokes. The game will be full of small skinny runners with skills

 

[Juddernaut08]

I’m saying he wasn’t that great of a footballer. He was good ruckmen because he was already pretty tall at age 13 and he obviously had a good leap.

This notion that he would be a Buddy type footballer is laughable.

Everyone I know who either played against him or saw him play agrees with me. Obviously he quit footy very early, but he had all the makings of being one of those basketball players that teams try and turn into an a AFL star to mixed success. I’m sure with his height he could have been an effective ruckmen.

The media and blokes like Petracca talking him up like he was a superstar in the making is hyperbole. Petracca isn’t exactly going to come out and s**t on him and the media is going to believe anything Petracca says.

He was a gun ruckmen in his junior years. Wasn’t like he was one of those gun juniors who dominates in every position they play. He was a ruck. His athletic ability and height would have probably seen him drafted as a high pick ruckmen if he did continue to be good during juniors.

But that’s a long way from him automatically being Buddy.

The only question is his skills...which is obviously a big factor.

He has Franklin covered comfortably in every athletic and physical trait.
Taller (12cm)
Stronger.
Faster.
More Agile.
Better Vision.
Higher Leap.
Quicker Recovery for second efforts.

His floor would be a better version of Natanui.

 

[Juddernaut08]

Can’t see it happening. Big blokes are going to be a liability going forward with head knocks etc on the little blokes. The game will be full of small skinny runners with skills

How do you stop someone who you cant even spoil?

 

[liam123]

How do you stop someone who you cant even spoil?

Will still have rucks and KPPs but mids won’t get bigger

 

[Juddernaut08]

Will still have rucks and KPPs but mids won’t get bigger

Cripps, Fyfe, Bont...these guys are becoming the new prototype.

 

[PP34]

The only question is his skills...which is obviously a big factor.

He has Franklin covered comfortably in every athletic and physical trait.
Taller (12cm)
Stronger.
Faster.
More Agile.
Better Vision.
Higher Leap.
Quicker Recovery for second efforts.

His floor would be a better version of Natanui.

Skills is a huge part of it. I played against him at least two or three times in juniors and don’t ever remember his skills blowing me away.

Now obviously he could have improved, but a lot of AFL guns have the skills and instincts from an early age.

Could definitely see why teams would have loved him as a prospect. But also think there’s a chance he could have been one of those athletes who struggles at the footy part of things.

 

[liam123]

Cripps, Fyfe, Bont...these guys are becoming the new prototype.

Until they get rubbed out for being to strong and not considering he size of their smaller opponents. Either way they won’t get to 210cm like what was previously mentioned

 

[Pykie]

The only question is his skills...which is obviously a big factor.

He has Franklin covered comfortably in every athletic and physical trait.
Taller (12cm)
Stronger.
Faster.
More Agile.
Better Vision.
Higher Leap.
Quicker Recovery for second efforts.

His floor would be a better version of Natanui.

He's only slightly shorter than Sandilands.

Sandi could barely jump an inch off of the ground and moves at snail pace. For most of his career he was nearly unbeatable, especially at non-center bounce stoppages.

He would absolutely maul NN at a center bounce, the height difference between someone like Grant Birchall and NN is the same as NN and Simmons.

Simmons has a 7"0 comparative wingspan as well, meaning he has long arms, Bill Simmons in one of his podcast said that Simmons reportedly has the highest vertical reach in the entire NBA, at 12'6".

The top of a backboard is 13 feet, so he can almost grab the top of the backboard, that is ******* enormous.

His jumping vertical reach in metric, is 3.81m's

Nic Nat's vertical reach when he achieved the 102cm vertical jump record was 3.62m

Simmons has an overall reach advantage of 19cm's.

That means that at NN's highest extension he can reach just under Simmons wrist = Complete domination.

 

[owen87]

He's only slightly shorter than Sandilands.

Sandi could barely jump an inch off of the ground and moves at snail pace. For most of his career he was nearly unbeatable, especially at non-center bounce stoppages.

He would absolutely maul NN at a center bounce, the height difference between someone like Grant Birchall and NN is the same as NN and Simmons.

How would Simmons go running 12 - 15km a game?

You can't really compare the athletic attributes he has directly with a Natanui given Simmons is almost entirely a power athlete, which would be reduced if he was running AFL level distances, along with the difference in physicality.

I do think he'd be a beast of a ruckman; but his strength, speed, leap and agility would all likely be compromised by the distance covered and the physical requirements of tackling / being tackled, so it's not likely to carry over 1:1 from what he's capable of currently.

 

[Juddernaut08]

How would Simmons go running 12 - 15km a game?

You can't really compare the athletic attributes he has directly with a Natanui given Simmons is almost entirely a power athlete, which would be reduced if he was running AFL level distances, along with the difference in physicality.

I do think he'd be a beast of a ruckman; but his strength, speed, leap and agility would all likely be compromised by the distance covered and the physical requirements of tackling / being tackled, so it's not likely to carry over 1:1 from what he's capable of currently.

The aerobic capacity question is often brought up, but it's very flawed.

Answer is: He'd train for it, just like how dudes like Cam Rayner come in severely underdone, aerobic capacity can easily be increased.

Sure, Simmons would never become shiel or curnow in terms of aerobic capacity, but he'd be better than most ruckmen and at least comparable to most key forwards after 1-2 seasons. That's enough for him to be dominant overall in the comp.

 

[owen87]

The aerobic capacity question is often brought up, but it's very flawed.

Answer is: He'd train for it, just like how dudes like Cam Rayner come in severely underdone, aerobic capacity can easily be increased.

Sure, Simmons would never become shiel or curnow in terms of aerobic capacity, but he'd be better than most ruckmen and at least comparable to most key forwards after 1-2 seasons. That's enough for him to be dominant overall in the comp.

I mean that it would reduce some of the attributes people bring up; speed, leap, agility etc...

Not saying that he wouldn't have the capacity to run out a game, but that you can't simply take what he can do training as a basketballer, and assume he'll then cover the distances required for AFL and maintain the same amount of power he currently has. There's a trade-off that would come with the increased aerobic work required.

He may still well be the most athletic ruckman we've ever seen, even with a reduction in some of his leap and speed.

 

[Pykie]

How would Simmons go running 12 - 15km a game?

You can't really compare the athletic attributes he has directly with a Natanui given Simmons is almost entirely a power athlete, which would be reduced if he was running AFL level distances, along with the difference in physicality.

I do think he'd be a beast of a ruckman; but his strength, speed, leap and agility would all likely be compromised by the distance covered and the physical requirements of tackling / being tackled, so it's not likely to carry over 1:1 from what he's capable of currently.

When does Nic Nat run 12-15km's a game?

Ben Brown has topped 10 games he has played in this year in the low teens.

NN has played 58% TOG this year, with some of that forward. Fair chance he's only running 5-7km's a game.

The average NBA player runs 2.55 miles per game (4km's), Simmons is definately above average as he's a high tempo PG.

The jump isn't as big as you are saying.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

When does Nic Nat run 12-15km's a game?

Ben Brown has topped 10 games he has played in this year in the low teens.

NN has played 58% TOG this year, with some of that forward. Fair chance he's only running 5-7km's a game.

The average NBA player runs 2.55 miles per game (4km's), Simmons is definately above average as he's a high tempo PG.

The jump isn't as big as you are saying.

You've completely missed the point. If AFL players only had to run 4km they would all be built like rugby league players. It completely changes everything

 

[Juddernaut08]

Dangerfield is explosive. Judd was explosive. They could also both run very well.

The dropoff in athleticism to slim down a bit and switch the body from less anaerobic to more aerobic isn't much for an elite athlete. Simmons still has a decent tank.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Dangerfield is explosive. Judd was explosive. They could also both run very well.

The dropoff in athleticism to slim down a bit and switch the body from less anaerobic to more aerobic isn't much for an elite athlete. Simmons still has a decent tank.

He would still be off the charts but you look at Danger if he only had to run 4km a game he would be bigger, faster and more explosive.
To look at the extremes just compare the body shape of a marathon runner to a sprinter

 

[Juddernaut08]

He would still be off the charts but you look at Danger if he only had to run 4km a game he would be bigger, faster and more explosive.
To look at the extremes just compare the body shape of a marathon runner to a sprinter

Yep, point taken and his explosiveness would take a hit, I guess we're just debating how much it would need to take a hit for him to have the bare minimum, or league average aerobic capacity for AFL.

I just think that even as it stands now, he isn't far off. He played aussie rules at a decent level until 15yrs. There's no reason to suggest that after 2 pre-seasons he wouldn't be as good aerobically as some of the ruckmen now.

 

[Damon_3388]

The aerobic capacity question is often brought up, but it's very flawed.

Answer is: He'd train for it, just like how dudes like Cam Rayner come in severely underdone, aerobic capacity can easily be increased.

Sure, Simmons would never become shiel or curnow in terms of aerobic capacity, but he'd be better than most ruckmen and at least comparable to most key forwards after 1-2 seasons. That's enough for him to be dominant overall in the comp.

It's much easier to develop or come in with aerobic capacity, than it is to develop or come in with explosive athleticism.

Obviously it's an important part of our game, but when judging overall athleticism, I think some footy fan severely overrate endurance running and repeat effort running as an important/valueable athletic trait. When considering other athletes "athletic", mostly people are judging on the more explosive traits - speed, quickness, leaping ability, strength, agility - for which a lot of AFL players measure out as pretty mediocre at an international level, particularly when you compare athletes over 191cm/6'3".

 

[Juddernaut08]

It's much easier to develop or come in with aerobic capacity, than it is to develop or come in with explosive athleticism.

Obviously it's an important part of our game, but when judging overall athleticism, I think some footy fan severely overrate endurance running and repeat effort running as an important/valueable athletic trait. When considering other athletes "athletic", mostly people are judging on the more explosive traits - speed, quickness, leaping ability, strength, agility - for which a lot of AFL players measure out as pretty mediocre at an international level, particularly when you compare athletes over 191cm/6'3".

exactly. a lot of us can become decent 10km runners. my friends and I all started training at over an hour for 10km (pretty average), and within 6 months are running 45-50mins...which is a pretty good increase. We haven't gotten any less explosive.

on the other hand, i've trained my vertical for years on years and i still can't dunk