Best 22

[Don77]

agree, dont know why people are puting draftees in our best 22 when they are yet to play a game.

Because he is a mature aged draftee ready to play senior football, unlike our other draftees who are all 17-18 year olds. Essendon expect him to play seniors year 1 and so do I.

 

[DaSawx]

I agree, watch Davey's highlights package and try and leave him out .

Extremely quick and has excellent skills ont he run, should adjust rather quickly to senior footy.

 

[Crave]

FB: Welsh Michael M.Johnson

HB: McPhee Fletcher N.L-Murray

C: McVeigh Watson Dyson

HF: Lovett Lucas Hird

FF: Johns Lloyd Monfries

Rucks: Hille J.Johnson Stanton

Inter: Bradley Heffernan Camporeale Laycock

Emergencies: Ryder Nash Winderlich

Pretty happy with that except Id swap Dyson for Campo and Heff for Winderlich.

 

[Longy413]

I agree that a lot of goals are set up from half-back. I reckon you could count on 1 hand (and have fingers to spare) the number of times Welsh set up goals for us this year.

Sorry, that's crap. Welsh does one of two things in setting up and you only have to watch him to know he is doing it to instructions, because there is a distinct difference in the way he performed the role this year than the way he was playing a couple of years ago when Adam McPhee was doing something similar.

Welsh either wins the ball himself and looks sideways. The best way to clear the ball from defense rather than kicking to where it came from. Or someone else wins the ball and he runs hard to position to be the target for the next kick. That's the way we move the ball from defense, it's the way we play.

If Welsh wins the ball and dishes off, then no he hasn't directly been credited with setting up the goal. But he does win the footy and that's a bloody good start, can't kick goals without it.

He came 6th in our best and fairest because we only had 5 players who performed better than him, a sad, sad inditement (sp?) of our season. There is no way that Andrew Welsh would ever finish top 10 in a good side. Heck, he wouldn't even get a game with the West Coast Eagles. To be honest, I was absolutely staggered that he finished that high- someone like Mark McVeigh had a much better season in my opinion.

Perhaps he finished that high because he played to instructions, that's what I've been trying to get across. You go off on this tangent about him going sideways, perhaps that's what he is supposed to do. He beats his opponent, he wins the footy and then he sets us up as instructed. That to me is a bloke who is worthy of a game in our best side.

Handballing 2 metres sideways most of the time would tend to reduce your turnovers don't you think? Kind of proves my point I would have thought. Anyone who watches a lot of footy knows that numbers of disposals in the modern game means nothing about impact on a game.

He kicks a lot more than he handballs and if statistics meant nothing, clubs wouldn't spend tens of thousands of dollars a year to have access to them. Disposal statistics mean less for teams that play a high possession brand of footy, anyone that watches footy (to borrow a line) would know that Essendon don't play that type of footy. We kick long as a rule, we average the 5th most long kicks per game of all sides in the comp. 5th in contested marks, 4th in contested possessions. We play a much more contested type of footy than teams like Hawthorn, the Dogs, Freo etc.

Welsh is a very good exponent of the long kick (6th most at the club) and no-one would question his ability to go after and win the contested ball. Do I have to say again that it is evident that Andrew Welsh plays the type of footy that the coaches ask him to? If his best and fairest finish didn't already go a way to explaining it.

Then our midfield is in serious trouble next year. He is not and has never been a midfielder. Slattery or even Heffernan bring much more to the table as taggers than Welsh ever will. Saying he did a good job on Voss is kind of a mute point given the state of Voss' knees this year.

It's not a moot point, Voss still played some very good footy this season. He just couldn't get on the park often enough, when he was out there, for the most part he went pretty damn well.

No credit for his job on Swan? He's been in the middle twice and done well both, but hey, we'll dismiss that.

Besides, pace in the position that Watson plays (refer Greg Williams, Scott West and Sam Mitchell) is NOT important- he is a midfield ball extractor. He feeds the ball off to quick outside midfielders. Playing in a position where you are meant to be able to shut down opposition smalls (eg. Davey, Didak, Mark Williams) pace IS important. And time after time Welsh has had to be taken off these players because he cannot go with them for pace.

I've never seen Welsh play on Mark Williams, I don't remember him playing on Davey either. He doesn't play on small explosive forwards, he plays on mid-sized forwards.

He did get beaten by Didak this year, why he was taken off Swan I'm not sure. He plays on the O'Keefe, Chapman, Robbins, Bode etc. He has more than enough to handle those blokes. Welsh doesn't get exposed for pace, he isn't slow.

You could say the same about Peverill but I think we all agree that as great a footballer as Pev has been for us, we need to move beyond players like him if we are going to progress as a side. The same applies to Welsh. As I said before, I hope he proves me wrong.

I'd appreciate it if you didn't put words in my mouth. I wouldn't have Pev in my best side in fact I wouldn't have Pev on the list. He is no longer accountable enough and he doesn't hurt the opposition with the footy.

Still doesn't change the fact that he is a better handballer than Welsh.

Crap, not even close. I think you need to watch Welsh in traffic, especially on the ground, a lot closer and don't make a judgement based on some mistakes he made this year. Yes he turned it over at times, yes he stuffed up some kick-ins, yes he got caught with the footy. As a club we had a bad year, playing down back wasn't a great place to be. Welsh is one of a few down back that can hold his head high.

I agree, watch Davey's highlights package and try and leave him out .

Extremely quick and has excellent skills ont he run, should adjust rather quickly to senior footy.

Keep in mind they are only highlights though. They don't put his bad stuff in there, they don't show his weaknesses.

He may well not have any weaknesses, but I wouldn't be picking him just on 5 minutes of highlights. You could almost make Mark Bolton look good in a five minute package. He'd be the closest of our draftees, but lets see how he goes in the NAB Cup first.

 

[FromOutside50]

Pretty happy with that except Id swap Dyson for Campo and Heff for Winderlich.

Thanks. I can see where you are coming from with your suggestions. Hopefully Winderlich can make an impact on 07.

I also think there is no doubting the value of Welsh in our starting 22. In my opinion, we deserved to finsh where he did in our best and fairest, and was a fairly consistent performer throughout last season.

 

[DaSawx]

Keep in mind they are only highlights though. They don't put his bad stuff in there, they don't show his weaknesses.

He may well not have any weaknesses, but I wouldn't be picking him just on 5 minutes of highlights. You could almost make Mark Bolton look good in a five minute package. He'd be the closest of our draftees, but lets see how he goes in the NAB Cup first.

Totally agree and am only getting excited, expect Davey to be my lovechild

 

[Don77]

Longy re. Welsh. As I said before, we'll have to agree to disagree then. I just don't rate him. I'm not going to keep arguing with you though because your always going to be able to pull out some statistic to back up your argument where as I am just basing my opinion on what I have seen. Welsh is just one of those players that I seem to become frustrated with a lot watching games- along with Peverill and surprise, surprise, Bolton. Maybe I'm just a bad judge of a good footballer but I don't think so.

The proof in the pudding will be if he is part of our next finals side- I don't think he will be. You obviously do. Good luck to you and him. I hope you both prove me wrong.

Also if memory serves me correctly, wasn't Welsh dropped at some point this year and then put back in the side at the last minute?? Could be wrong about that. Not sure it backs up your theory about him 'playing to instructions' though although I'm sure he tries to.

 

[Crave]

Longy re. Welsh. As I said before, we'll have to agree to disagree then. I just don't rate him. I'm not going to keep arguing with you though because your always going to be able to pull out some statistic to back up your argument where as I am just basing my opinion on what I have seen. Welsh is just one of those players that I seem to become frustrated with a lot watching games- along with Peverill and surprise, surprise, Bolton. Maybe I'm just a bad judge of a good footballer but I don't think so.

The proof in the pudding will be if he is part of our next finals side- I don't think he will be. You obviously do. Good luck to you and him. I hope you both prove me wrong.

Also if memory serves me correctly, wasn't Welsh dropped at some point this year and then put back in the side at the last minute?? Could be wrong about that. Not sure it backs up your theory about him 'playing to instructions' though although I'm sure he tries to.

If my memory serves me correctly, only occurred once for the Dreamtime at the G match. He missed later on ironically against the Tigers again due to a shin injury.

 

[Big Scottknowsall]

Still doesn't change the fact that he is a better handballer than Welsh.

In my opinion Welsh is without a doubt the most underrated player at Essendon.

If the other 21 players that took the felid every week had his desire, commitment and ferocity we wouldn't be losing all hte games we are...I've rarely seen him be beaten, and I constantly see him run off his man to help out, lay deperate, score saving tackles and continuously give his all...

You mentioned earler he wouldn't even get a game at West Coast - I reckon youre wrong again here - Worsfold would love someone with Welsh's attitude....

 

[jules101]

In my opinion Welsh is without a doubt the most underrated player at Essendon.

If the other 21 players that took the felid every week had his desire, commitment and ferocity we wouldn't be losing all hte games we are...I've rarely seen him be beaten, and I constantly see him run off his man to help out, lay deperate, score saving tackles and continuously give his all...

You mentioned earler he wouldn't even get a game at West Coast - I reckon youre wrong again here - Worsfold would love someone with Welsh's attitude....

Has played with a broken hand before, and a suspected broken arm in the semi against geelong in 2004. Wouldn't come off to have it checked.

 

[Don77]

In my opinion Welsh is without a doubt the most underrated player at Essendon.

If the other 21 players that took the felid every week had his desire, commitment and ferocity we wouldn't be losing all hte games we are...I've rarely seen him be beaten, and I constantly see him run off his man to help out, lay deperate, score saving tackles and continuously give his all...

You mentioned earler he wouldn't even get a game at West Coast - I reckon youre wrong again here - Worsfold would love someone with Welsh's attitude....

I never said I doubted his courage or his committment- that is not my issue with him. As I said in a previous post, Peverill is also courageous and committed- doesn't mean he will be a premiership player though.

As for rarely getting beaten, you and I must have been watching different Essendon games to me. He is way too loose and unaccountable for the position he plays. Again, just my opinion though.

 

[bomber_girl]

Mark Johnson. Doesn't get the credit from many opposition supporters.

 

[jules101]

Mark Johnson. Doesn't get the credit from many opposition supporters.

Was below his usual standard ( along with about 15 other players) last season

 

[Crave]

Was below his usual standard ( along with about 15 other players) last season

Be that as it may, he still managed 42 Hardball Gets, 52 Looseball gets and 64 tackles. Not bad for a below par season. Chimed in with 9 majors also

 

[DonMania#5]

Essendon Round 1 07'

B: M.Johnson - M.Michael - A.Welsh

HB: N.Lovett-Murray - D.Fletcher - A.Mcphee

C: S.Camporeale - J.Watson - M.Mcveigh

HF: J.Hird - S.Lucas - C.Johns

F: A.Lovett - M.Lloyd - A.Monfries

FOL: D.Hille - J.Johson - B.Stanton

Inter: S.Gumbleton - K.Bradley - J.Winderlich - J.Laycock

Emg: C.Heffernan - H.Slattery - R.Dyson

 

[jules101]

Be that as it may, he still managed 42 Hardball Gets, 52 Looseball gets and 64 tackles. Not bad for a below par season. Chimed in with 9 majors also

Year	Games	Kicks	HB	Disp Marks	Goals	Behinds	Tackles	HO	FF	FA
2000	21	258	121	379	94	5	4	36	2	16	19
2001	20	230	78	308	75	10	2	40	0	24	20
2002	22	222	125	347	97	3	1	64	12	23	27
2003	22	233	150	383	99	8	4	89	14	24	23
2004	18	148	97	245	50	16	9	54	4	30	23
2005	22	265	133	398	106	29	12	84	10	33	25
2006	22	212	146	358	99	9	4	64	6	27	11
Total:	147	1568	850	2418	620	80	36	431	48	177	148
											
Average											
2000		12.29	5.76	18.05	4.48	0.24	0.19	1.71	0.10	0.76	0.90
2001		11.50	3.90	15.40	3.75	0.50	0.10	2.00	0.00	1.20	1.00
2002		10.09	5.68	15.77	4.41	0.14	0.05	2.91	0.55	1.05	1.23
2003		10.59	6.82	17.41	4.50	0.36	0.18	4.05	0.64	1.09	1.05
2004		8.22	5.39	13.61	2.78	0.89	0.50	3.00	0.22	1.67	1.28
2005		12.05	6.05	18.09	4.82	1.32	0.55	3.82	0.45	1.50	1.14
2006		9.64	6.64	16.27	4.50	0.41	0.18	2.91	0.27	1.23	0.50
Total:		10.67	5.78	16.45	4.22	0.54	0.24	2.93	0.33	1.20	1.01

Going on stats alone he had an average year for him.

 

[FromOutside50]

Essendon Round 1 07'

B: M.Johnson - M.Michael - A.Welsh

HB: N.Lovett-Murray - D.Fletcher - A.Mcphee

C: S.Camporeale - J.Watson - M.Mcveigh

HF: J.Hird - S.Lucas - C.Johns

F: A.Lovett - M.Lloyd - A.Monfries

FOL: D.Hille - J.Johson - B.Stanton

Inter: S.Gumbleton - K.Bradley - J.Winderlich - J.Laycock

Emg: C.Heffernan - H.Slattery - R.Dyson

Good effort, I like it.

 

[ant555]

Good effort, I like it.

hmm not much midfield rotation, no way you can play Gumbelton, Bradley and laycock on the bench. These days you need at least two players (preferably three) rotating into the midfield.
Johns cant play HFF either, you need your flankers to push up into the midfield.

 

[monty1104]

hmm not much midfield rotation, no way you can play Gumbelton, Bradley and laycock on the bench. These days you need at least two players (preferably three) rotating into the midfield.
Johns cant play HFF either, you need your flankers to push up into the midfield.

Totally agree. I would like to see either Lovett or Monfries playing as more of an attacking midfielder than a forward flanker, but still start on the flank, if you catch my drift.

 

[Jex]

I never said I doubted his courage or his committment- that is not my issue with him. As I said in a previous post, Peverill is also courageous and committed- doesn't mean he will be a premiership player though.

As for rarely getting beaten, you and I must have been watching different Essendon games to me. He is way too loose and unaccountable for the position he plays. Again, just my opinion though.

I'm not the biggest fan of Welsh either. While some defenders have made an art form out of turning defence into attack with purposeful and creative rebound, Woosha has a more conservative or perhaps even hesitative style. A style, which at best, is conducive to maintaining possession, but at worst, wastes attacking opportunities and restricts our movement of the ball forward.

He’s courageous, has plenty of mongrel, knows how to find the footy and his disposal is quite good. But good disposal and choosing the right option are two very different things. I have him in my best 22, but hope he plays with a little more imagination and takes more risks. The odd run further up the field will do him good also.

Welsh’s 5th placing in our B&F and JJ coming 7th really reflects our year. Neither performed at a level worthy of such a high B&F standing, but this says more about some of their teammates than it does them. Too many failed to perform with quality and consistency.

 

[Ants]

I don't believe it. I wrote a 20 minute detailed bloody reply to the thread, and because my browswer decided to clear me out as being logged in I lost the damn lot.

Now I've got to write it all again!

 

[Ants]

I'm not the biggest fan of Welsh either. While some defenders have made an art form out of turning defence into attack with purposeful and creative rebound, Woosha has a more conservative or perhaps even hesitative style. A style, which at best, is conducive to maintaining possession, but at worst, wastes attacking opportunities and restricts our movement of the ball forward.

He’s courageous, has plenty of mongrel, knows how to find the footy and his disposal is quite good. But good disposal and choosing the right option are two very different things. I have him in my best 22, but hope he plays with a little more imagination and takes more risks. The odd run further up the field will do him good also.

Welsh’s 5th placing in our B&F and JJ coming 7th really reflects our year. Neither performed at a level worthy of such a high B&F standing, but this says more about some of their teammates than it does them. Too many failed to perform with quality and consistency.

I agree. Welsh just does not hurt the opposition enough when the ball is in his hands.

My team:

FB: ..McVeigh...Michael......Fletcher
CHB: McPhee....Lucas........NLM
C: ...Stanton....J.Johnson...Camporeale
CHF: Lovett......Johns........Bradley
FF: ..Hird..........Lloyd........M.Johnson
ONB: Hille..........Watson.....Peverill
Bench: Laycock, Monfries, Dyson, Nash

Emergencies: Ryder, Slattery, Cole, Welsh, Bolton, Heffernen.

Strength 1: The backline. The best combination in the league. Three brilliant talls in Fletcher/Michael/Lucas, two damn good medium defenders/rebounders in McPhee/NLM and the best small defender in the league (McVeigh). If the opposition forward line isn't tall enough, bring in Welsh.
I've played Lucas here because I don't believe Bradley/Lee/??? are good enough, and would leave a huge hole at CHB. I don't buy that Fletcher or Michael can suddenly turn into CHBs. But Lucas is a brilliant one, and as a bonus is hugely attacking, with precision 50m kicks into the forward line. The best teams have a strong defence, this setup would provide one for us.

Strength 2: The full forward line. Assuming Lloyd is back to his best, he's a centurion goal kicker. Hird is Hird. And when MJ played most of the year forward (in 2005), he was our #2 goal kicker, and averaged over a goal a game. The only issue with this line up is that Hird/MJ are slightly susceptible to being run off.

Weakness 1: Midfield depth. JJ/Stanton/Watson/Campo/Pev is a pretty good starting midfield. But if you consider the three players on the bench as the next members of the rotation (plus cameos from MJ & Hird), the depth is very thin. None of Monfries/Dyson/Nash are proven, so to have them as your #6, #7 and #8 midfielders is not great.
However, our first five are pretty good, but they will struggle to sustain a four quarter effort against rotating midfields unless they get some support.
Note: On a side note, people have been excluding Pev from our team. I think this is ridiculous. Pev is one of our most consistent midfielders, and accross the last few seasons has usually been in our best 5 midfielders. Think of last season, who was ahead of him? Stanton, Watson, JJ, McVeigh, then Pev. Again and again, he's in our best 5. And I just can't see enough youngsters stepping up so that Pev at #5 is pushed to at least position #9 and out of the side. Remember, despite having a poor first half of the season, he still averaged over 20 possesions per game for the year. Thats damn consistent, and damn necessary.

Weakness 2: CHF line. Lovetts proven. But Bradley & Johns as the two talls is a risk. But less of a risk in my mind than a huge hole at CHB and Lucas playing at CHF. With Lucas at CHB, his long kicking should give Johns and Bradley 1 on 1 opportunities. Although a risk, if Johns keeps improving I think he can be a good CHF, and I believe Bradley can play a Goodes/O'Keefe style role. Its a risky move, but I prefer to leave our weakness here with Lloyd on the next line rather than at CHB where Brown/Richo/Pavlich/Hall/Riewoldt/Tredrea all play.

Weakness 3: Speed. I see this as a small weakness. Yes, the team above is not particularly fast, although it has the odd fast player. We'd probably like one of our fast youngsters to grab a spot on the bench.
But although its a huge issue if a fast team gets all over us, generally I'm not too concerned. Our midfielders are good at getting first hands on the pill. NLM/McPhee/McVeigh provide pace off the backline. Lucas can kick it faster/further than guys can run. And a teaming side usually beats a simply fast side.

Weakness 4: The ruck. Again, not a huge problem. Hille can do alright. But it should be recognised, Hille is ONLY allright. There are a number of ruckmen ahead of him in the league - White, Cox, Sandilands, Simmonds, Lade, Charman, Jolly, Ottens and Fraser (maybe Seaby, Gardiner, Everit, Brogan). And Hille's backup, Laycock, is injury prone, and Ryder is damn young. This is a slight weakness, and if injuries strike Hille a BIG weakness. What we really need is Laycock staying fit and pushing Hille as the #1 ruck. This would mean we'd have a 4qtr combination better than anyone except Port, WCE & Sydney (maybe Freo).

Overall: That side has a lot of potential. The structure's good, and it doesn't have too many weaknesses. BUT, it is reliant on a decent run of injuries, and no injuries to key players. In a lot of positions, our depth is VERY poor. It also requires Lloyd to return to his best, and at least one more youngster to step up in the midfield. If all those things go our way (and there are a lot of "ifs" there), we could finish top four.

However, if we have a bad run of injuries, if Lloyd doesn't return, if any of our older players (Fletcher/Michael/Hird/Lloyd/Lucas/JJ/MJ) drop off faster than expected, if Watson doesn't sustain last year's performance, if we have strategic injuries (eg. Hille, Lloyd), we could easily finish in the bottom four again.

Outside of injuries, probably the two biggest factors on performance will be weaknesses #1 and #2. If some of the youngsters can do a Watson and step up as week in/week out contributing midfielders (espescially if the youngster is fast), it will solve a lot of issues.
And similiarly, the second factor is if Bradley & Johns can hold down the HF line. If they provide sufficient supply to Lloyd and chip in with 3-4 goals between them a game, allowing Lucas to stay at CHB, we'll be a force. (Note, thats a reasonably BIG IF).

Overall, I think our lack of depth will hurt us, and I'm not sure if Sheedy will play Lucas at CHB. If he doesn't, and McVeigh doesn't play back, I think we'll leak goals again. Overall, I'm pretty pessimistic about those "IF"s happening, so I think we'll finish about 13th.

 

[boms]

B: M.Johnson Micheal Welsh
HB: NLM Fletcher McPhee
C: Stanton Watson Camporeale
HF: Johns Lucas Monfries
F: Davey Llyod Lovett
Fol: Hille McVeigh J.Johnson
Int: Laycock Bradley Dyson Winderlich
Emg: Slattery Nash Dempsey

 

[DaSawx]

I agree. Welsh just does not hurt the opposition enough when the ball is in his hands.

Does NLM hurt the opposition? Welsh does a lot more with the ball than he does, McPhee didn't use it well last year either, it's a cop out.

 

[bombers boy]

B: M.Johnson Micheal Welsh
HB: NLM Fletcher McPhee
C: Stanton Watson Camporeale
HF: Johns Lucas Monfries
F: Davey Llyod Lovett
Fol: Hille McVeigh J.Johnson
Int: Laycock Bradley Dyson Winderlich
Emg: Slattery Nash Dempsey

i no many dont rate him but id probley sneak hirdy onto the emergencies