Best developing ruck stocks

[Carnthe]

i'm not here defending warnock, i also have my doubts on him, but that comment is just blatantly ignorant and highlights how little idea you have of what is actually going on. just in case you know, it does no good for a young up and coming ruckman to be thrown into the ruck when his body isn't ready for it. so using the foresight which you claim we lack, we brought in another more developed ruckman so he can play the majority of the game in the ruck and ease the workload off our younger blokes in hampson and kreuzer.

Hows he goin for the Ants?

 

[Rosstickle]

Watch the poll results change after natanui gets drafted.

I already got in on West Coast

 

[jonoman89]

Dont let the truth get in the way of a good story. Warnock and Hampson will be 22 and 21 respectively by the time the season starts. McIntosh turned 24 in September.

As said above, McIntosh averaged 16 disposals and 19 hitouts a game, accross a full season, at the same age as Warnock in 09'.

Hamish was drafted in 2002, our oldest in 2005. That's around 3 years of development. Pretty big difference.

(but yes i got the age wrong, looked at old stats. my bad.)

 

[KUNG FU]

Surely a couple skinny 22 year olds (Maric & Griffin) backed up by some 21 pinch-hitting KP project players from Qld (Moran & Tippett) easily qualify as the best by a country mile. They came 6th overall in the league for hit outs and their opponents were 10th, way in front of North in 12th and their opponents were 3rd - not to mention that their 'developing' status is comparatively dubious. Carlton have stacked up on a nice list of prospective players, big deal. What a wanky thread.

 

[TigerHunter]

Surely a couple skinny 22 year olds (Maric & Griffin) backed up by some 21 pinch-hitting KP project players from Qld (Moran & Tippett) easily qualify as the best by a country mile. They came 6th overall in the league for hit outs and their opponents were 10th, way in front of North in 12th and their opponents were 3rd - not to mention that their 'developing' status is comparatively dubious. Carlton have stacked up on a nice list of prospective players, big deal. What a wanky thread.

Agree. Maric has the skills, the mongrel and the ability and Tippet is up and coming. Moran is more of a forward and everyone should know Griffin is not far off AA.

Worst ruck division would be Richmond or Melbourne.

 

[Riggy1]

Agree. Maric has the skills, the mongrel and the ability and Tippet is up and coming. Moran is more of a forward and everyone should know Griffin is not far off AA.

Worst ruck division would be Richmond or Melbourne.

I agree with this completely but find amusing that the Crows picked up Moran as a defender. Once Griffen gets some muscle on him he may do something around the field.

Why do people like Carlton. Kruezer didnt do much in the ruck, Hampson must be pretty poor if I havnt heard of him in a serious discussion. And Warnock, he is the only one who show's promise as a ruckman but he is getting to his mid 20s. Kangaroos-Adelaide- Tough one maybe Hawthorn.

 

[__aria__]

north comfortably

if u think hale and mcintosh are good wait till a bloke called todd goldstein gets his chance

 

[Dandy_GO]

How is Adelaide not winning this?
Adelaide's young rucks pantsed Carlton and North this season.

Round 6
Griffin 38 hitouts + Tippett 12 hitouts
Cloke 9 hitouts + Kruezer 8

Round 7
Griffin 34 hitouts + Tippett 9 hitouts
Hale 17 hitouts + McIntosh 10 hitouts

Round 18
Maric 29 hitouts + Moran 9 hitouts
Cloke 9 hitouts + Kruezer 7 hitouts

Three games might not mean too much overall, but I'm pretty comfortable in saying that Maric, Griffin, Tippett and Moran are the best developing ruck group in the AFL. All are under 23, unlike Hale, Petrie and McIntosh, and together (particularly Maric and Griffin) have shown a heck of a lot more to date than Carlton's largely unproven group.

 

[Mario the Lothario]

McIntosh was injured v Adelaide, that's why Hale did most of the rucking and for the umpteenth time Petrie shouldn't be rated as a ruckman. He is in there just as much for his ability at influening a clearance as much as anything else.

Hitouts are overrated anyway.

 

[__aria__]

and adelaide vs nth head2head stats should not be used as adelaide destroy us in every area every game no matter what

 

[Dandy_GO]

McIntosh was injured v Adelaide, that's why Hale did most of the rucking and for the umpteenth time Petrie shouldn't be rated as a ruckman. He is in there just as much for his ability at influening a clearance as much as anything else.

Hitouts are overrated anyway.

Then who have you got?
Hale and McIntosh are both great ruckmen, but it's questionable whether you'd still class them as developing developing, given that Hale's been in the system for 7 years now, and McIntosh for 6. Petrie, you've said, doesn't count as a ruckman, and is 26 and fully developed anyway. Goldstein's played less games than Hampson! He's shown a bit, but he's the only real developing player listed here by North fans.

Maric and Griffin, however, at 22 are still very much developing players. Moran and Tippett have both spent half their time in the ruck, and half in other positions, but they've both been very handy when required in the middle.

Hitouts aren't the only stat worth looking at with ruckmen, no, but they're still a very important part of the game. I'm chuffed with how our youngsters have been going, especially with Hudson, Biglands and Clarke all departing over the last couple of seasons. The way Maric and Griffin in particular regularly gave our midfielders first use was one of the reasons why we almost made top 4 last season.

Basically, I rate North's ruck division highly, but I don't see how they have the best DEVELOPING ruck stocks.

 

[Spitz]

How is Adelaide not winning this?
Adelaide's young rucks pantsed Carlton and North this season.

Round 7
Griffin 34 hitouts + Tippett 9 hitouts
Hale 17 hitouts + McIntosh 10 hitouts

You neglected to mention that Norths ruckman had a combined total of 43 Disposals/13 marks to Adelaides 18 Disposals/9 Marks.


Adelaide has the best developing rucks no question imo, North would have close to the best developed ruck division.

 

[Dandy_GO]

You neglected to mention that Norths ruckman had a combined total of 43 Disposals/13 marks to Adelaides 18 Disposals/9 Marks.


Adelaide has the best developing rucks no question imo, North would have close to the best developed ruck division.

It's not exactly a fair comparison if you compare Hale, McIntosh AND Petrie, who, according to the North poster above, shouldn't be counted (and didn't play as one on the night) to just Tippett and Griffin.

Griffin and Tippett combined for 43 hitouts 21 disposals (9 contested), 9 marks, 7 tackles, 4 clearances and 2 goals 3
Hale and McIntosh combined for 27 hitouts 24 disposals (2 contested), 8 marks, 5 tackles, 2 clearances and no score

Perhaps "pantsed" was too strong a word, but I'd say it's a pretty clear cut victory to Adelaide's rucks.

Would like to see how we'd go against a fully fit McIntosh though.

But yes, I agree with your overall conclusion

 

[KUNG FU]

No doubt on North's ruck dept. The fact you could off load Moran so easily tesfies to that fact.

Good conclusion to a dumb thread.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

By TM at 10:00am ill say WC.

If we do pick up Nicknat we will have to two quality ruckman and two developing ruckmen.

 

[Themi#9]

yehh probs the tankers

 

[Mario the Lothario]

You neglected to mention that Norths ruckman had a combined total of 43 Disposals/13 marks to Adelaides 18 Disposals/9 Marks.

Nah, none of that matters, it's all about who gets the most hitouts.

FFS, Hawthorn managed to win a flag with ruckmen that would be deemed "servicable" and Geelong won a flag with a ruckman that has more influence around the ground than he does with his hitout numbers and the other one is a dud. You can add West Coast to that list as well.

 

[Dandy_GO]

Nah, none of that matters, it's all about who gets the most hitouts.

FFS, Hawthorn managed to win a flag with ruckmen that would be deemed "servicable" and Geelong won a flag with a ruckman that has more influence around the ground than he does with his hitout numbers and the other one is a dud. You can add West Coast to that list as well.

What the hell? I gave full stats four posts before yours. The bloke was comparing 3 players against 2! Adelaide's ruckmen not only won more hitouts, but had more of an influence around the ground!
I'm not suggesting they're better than North's rucks. They aren't (yet). You have two experienced quality ruckman, and a superb tall utility in Petrie. But Griffin and Tippett were clearly the superior duo on the night, and, unlike Hale and McIntosh who are entering their peak years, they've still got years of developing left!

At no stage did anybody claim that hitouts were the only part of being a ruckman.

 

[Mario the Lothario]

What the hell? I gave full stats four posts before yours. The bloke was comparing 3 players against 2! Adelaide's ruckmen not only won more hitouts, but had more of an influence around the ground!
I'm not suggesting they're better than North's rucks. They aren't (yet). You have two experienced quality ruckman, and a superb tall utility in Petrie. But Griffin and Tippett were clearly the superior duo on the night, and, unlike Hale and McIntosh who are entering their peak years, they've still got years of developing left!

At no stage did anybody claim that hitouts were the only part of being a ruckman.

David Hale and Hamish McIntosh will both be entering the 2009 season as 24 year olds. It is generally accepted that Ruckman start to peak in there late twenties. I agree with that notion. Both are still developing. Goldstein still has huge upside and will be as good as either of the other two.

 

[Dandy_GO]

David Hale and Hamish McIntosh will both be entering the 2009 season as 24 year olds. It is generally accepted that Ruckman start to peak in there late twenties. I agree with that notion. Both are still developing. Goldstein still has huge upside and will be as good as either of the other two.

I disagree.
Ruckmen DO develop slower than smalls as a rule, but there's plenty of examples of ruckmen hitting their peak in the mid 20s. Dean Cox, most would agree, entered his peak years around 24 (and he's still within them, barring injury). Sandilands is hitting his peak now, at 25, Corey McKernan would have had a brownlow if not for suspension at age 23. There are, however, ruckmen who enter their peak years a bit later, but there's certainly no rule to it. I think McIntosh and Hale are just about at their peak years and certainly can't be classed as developing prospects anymore. We know that they're both quality AFL players, and what we can expect from them at this level, unlike Goldstein or even Maric and Griffin. This, however, is surely good news for North fans.

 

[Mario the Lothario]

Semantics.

The poll is about "Best developing ruck stocks".

The poll is not about "Best developing ruck stocks with a cutoff date that allows your clubs players to win the poll".

 

[Dandy_GO]

Semantics.

The poll is about "Best developing ruck stocks".

The poll is not about "Best developing ruck stocks with a cutoff date that allows your clubs players to win the poll".

What a ridiculous post. There's only a few criteria in this poll, and I'm arguing that only one of North's ruckmen actually meet them, which is a fair enough point of discussion I'd have though.
You saying "semantics" doesn't automatically make it a moot point. The semantics are important here.