Between the 35 and 95 game bracket

[PieLebo87]

I'll just get through the statistical aspect of the thread, then explain the rest.

Anthony - 36 games
Brown - 37
Toovey - 41
Goldsack - 45
Clarke - 46 *
Pendlebury - 76
Thomas - 85
O'Brien - 85
Shaw - 92

I was reading today's HUN, and there was an article on Harding, of the Lions, who'd recently been delisted, and I remember him mentioning that there is a belief that a player hits his straps around the 50 game mark in the AFL, and he only managed to get to 48, but felt he was starting to get the hang of things.

Anyway, the point of this thread is, we've got 9 or so players around the 35 to 95 game mark. This is a transitional/educational stage of a player's AFL career. Who, of this group, do you believe we step up and take their game to the next level in 2010? How do you believe so? And why?

I would like to have a mature and intelligent conversation with a few of my fellow Magpies, especially considering we haven't got too much going on during this off-season other than talking up young draftees and potential mature-aged pick ups.

My personal opinion is that Alan Toovey might be taking his game to the next level, and I seriously don't know why that name stuck out of that list to me.

Its a shame Marty pulled the pin, he would've been a wonderful sight over the next 24 months.

* = Gone

 

[danielnajdek]

I think Daisy needs to take his game to a new level not sure if he can though.he has played 80 odd games and alot of them games have been dissappointing IMO.no worries with pendles, harry o and shaw they all have taken it to a new level just need dale to do the same

 

[Optimax]

The reason toovey sticks out is because in all 3 finals he stuck out like a sore thumb as one of the ones that can say he busted his ass in all 3 matches.

His adelaide final was by far his best, most damaging and all round game of his career. Kept his man quiet, had 16ish disposals, provide rebound, hardness at the ball and showed endeavor. Hopefully he carries that on next year

On that list we have 3 KPP backmean yet to reach 50 games
(brown, sack and Obrien). These guys should and likely will still develop and improve, its often easy to bag these guys out but they are very much still kids.

 

[Optimax]

I think Daisy needs to take his game to a new level not sure if he can though.he has played 80 odd games and alot of them games have been dissappointing IMO.no worries with pendles, harry o and shaw they all have taken it to a new level just need dale to do the same

Under what interpretation?

He has played 82 games and has won some games with his game turning style.

Even this year where he was used extremely defensively and was somewhat poor he still lifted his possessions a game average. He was also another (like tooves) that played 3 good finals

So under what judge has his 82 games been disappointing?

 

[Tranquilli37]

The Daisy saga continues....
At the start of the season i couldnt understand why MM was persisting with Toovey, but he has finally come good. Hes not the most glamorous player, but he gets the job done on a regular basis now.
Thomas/Pendlebury/Anthony/O'Brien will continue to be solid contributors.
Brown will benefit from further opportunity and continually get better.
Goldsack im not overly confident about( something doesnt sit right with me). Feel free to discuss.
I believe Heath Shaw has already reached the 'next level'.

 

[Al Scorcho]

Under what interpretation?

He has played 82 games and has won some games with his game turning style.

Even this year where he was used extremely defensively and was somewhat poor he still lifted his possessions a game average. He was also another (like tooves) that played 3 good finals

So under what judge has his 82 games been disappointing?

have you read bay 13 opti? all the facts are there, he's no good

 

[Optimax]

have you read bay 13 opti? all the facts are there, he's no good

oh right

apologies all the bay has spoke

 

[danielnajdek]

Under what interpretation?

He has played 82 games and has won some games with his game turning style.

Even this year where he was used extremely defensively and was somewhat poor he still lifted his possessions a game average. He was also another (like tooves) that played 3 good finals

So under what judge has his 82 games been disappointing?

I expect more from a number 2 pick that's all not too much to ask for surely just look at Pendles he has improved every year and I don't think Daisy has improved every year it's just what I think. I thought he was wonderful a couple of years back especially a game against Ruchmond but he's gone backwards from that point on. I really hope he does take a massive step to being a star but I can't see it happening maybe once Bucks takes over and Daisy doesn't get all the love from the coach.Mick loves him so he'll never get dropped no matter how poorly he plays.

 

[alfiiee]

DT was not drafted to pick up your 35 possessions every week..
He is one of the hardest workers in our team. His skills, awareness, pace is incredible. His run and carry is exactly what we need..

So much of this mans work goes unnoticed..!

 

[TradeDraft]

DT was not drafted to pick up your 35 possessions every week..
He is one of the hardest workers in our team. His skills, awareness, pace is incredible. His run and carry is exactly what we need..

So much of this mans work goes unnoticed..!

True but Does not put in 4 Quater Games yet

 

[DThomas]

Jeez, not this shit again.

For the billionth time, Dale has been played in different positions this year to add a defensive side to his game, and at the same time he improved his average possessions count.

People's expectations of Dale are WAY too high.

 

[mdc]

Even this year where he was used extremely defensively and was somewhat poor he still lifted his possessions a game average. He was also another (like tooves) that played 3 good finals

Bit of a stretch. Thought he was terrific against Adelaide, but the other 2 were average at best.

He does bust a gut though, which is more than you can say for a couple of others.

From that list, the only ones that I think are finished products are Shaw and O'Brien, and I can't see Toovey playing much better than he did in the second half of the year. The rest can keep getting better.

 

[Antz]

Jeez, not this shit again.

For the billionth time, Dale has been played in different positions this year to add a defensive side to his game, and at the same time he improved his average possessions count.

People's expectations of Dale are WAY too high.

Peoples expectations of Dale should be high considering he was the 2nd pick in the 2005 national draft. I still think though he will excel in the next few years as maturity sets in.

Below is a list of the top ten picks in the 2005 national draft. As you can see Murphy, Pendlebury and Mitch Clarke are the only 3 players that have been stand out performers for their teams in 2009. As for the rest of the top ten picks it would seem that Thomas, Ellis and Ryder had an ok 2009 but will improve in 2010 IMO.

1 Marc Murphy 2 Dale Thomas 3 Xavier Ellis 4 Josh J. Kennedy 5 Scott Pendlebury 6 Beau Dowler 7 Paddy Ryder 8 Jarrad Oakley-Nicholls 9 Mitch Clark 10 Marcus Drum

 

[TradeDraft]

Peoples expectations of Dale should be high considering he was the 2nd pick in the 2005 national draft. I still think though he will excel in the next few years as maturity sets in.

Below is a list of the top ten picks in the 2005 national draft. As you can see Murphy, Pendlebury and Mitch Clarke are the only 3 players that have been stand out performers for their teams in 2009. As for the rest of the top ten picks it would seem that Thomas, Ellis and Ryder had an ok 2009 but will improve in 2010 IMO.

1 Marc Murphy 2 Dale Thomas 3 Xavier Ellis 4 Josh J. Kennedy 5 Scott Pendlebury 6 Beau Dowler 7 Paddy Ryder 8 Jarrad Oakley-Nicholls 9 Mitch Clark 10 Marcus Drum

Thought Ryder really came on this year.

That 2nd Pick for Daisy does pit a lot of Pressure on him

 

[StillWaiting5689]

Daisy is the one that sticks out on that list as someone who could have a break out year in 2010. Has shown he can be a very handy player in a variety of roles but now needs to work on putting it all together on game day because at the moment he tends to flash in and out games to much and not enough four quarter games. If he doesn't do it next year I'd expect it to happen in 2011. If he doesn't have that break out year in the next two seasons I won't expect he will as by that stage he would of played 130 odd games.
The rest of that list I'd expect to improve as well but Daisy is the one I'm excited about because I used to be a Daisy basher but he won me over this year with solid non-flashy games and I was a big fan of his finals series.

 

[DThomas]

Peoples expectations of Dale should be high considering he was the 2nd pick in the 2005 national draft. I still think though he will excel in the next few years as maturity sets in.

Below is a list of the top ten picks in the 2005 national draft. As you can see Murphy, Pendlebury and Mitch Clarke are the only 3 players that have been stand out performers for their teams in 2009. As for the rest of the top ten picks it would seem that Thomas, Ellis and Ryder had an ok 2009 but will improve in 2010 IMO.

1 Marc Murphy 2 Dale Thomas 3 Xavier Ellis 4 Josh J. Kennedy 5 Scott Pendlebury 6 Beau Dowler 7 Paddy Ryder 8 Jarrad Oakley-Nicholls 9 Mitch Clark 10 Marcus Drum

I understand that, but what I mean is he has unrealistic expectations put on him. Everyone thinks that he should be winning games all on his own and getting mark and goal of the week every week. Which is unrealistic considering that he is only 22 and is adjusting to his new midfield role.

And the Marc Murphy comparisons are pointless, because Thomas and Murphy are completely different players.

Players don't just turn into superstars overnight, it takes time. Take Dane Swan for instance. He debuted in 2003 and didn't start playing consistent matches until 2006. And we all know about how long it took Leon to turn into a star.

Give him some time and then you will see Dale Thomas start to shine.

 

[Copeland]

And the Marc Murphy comparisons are pointless, because Thomas and Murphy are completely different players.

To be honest Murphy was supposedly the standout for that draft, so for Thomas to be going so well I'm rapt.... the new "James Hird"

 

[soreplums]

Peoples expectations of Dale should be high considering he was the 2nd pick in the 2005 national draft. I still think though he will excel in the next few years as maturity sets in.

Below is a list of the top ten picks in the 2005 national draft. As you can see Murphy, Pendlebury and Mitch Clarke are the only 3 players that have been stand out performers for their teams in 2009. As for the rest of the top ten picks it would seem that Thomas, Ellis and Ryder had an ok 2009 but will improve in 2010 IMO.

1 Marc Murphy 2 Dale Thomas 3 Xavier Ellis 4 Josh J. Kennedy 5 Scott Pendlebury 6 Beau Dowler 7 Paddy Ryder 8 Jarrad Oakley-Nicholls 9 Mitch Clark 10 Marcus Drum

If Pendlebury went at 2 and thomas at 5 would people still be having this debate? I think not. Daisy is better than Ellis (Ellis spends more time on the ground and in the middle and had mitchell, hodge, crawford** and lewis doing all of the hard stuff for him- plus he is always injured anyway), can't compare to kennedy, ryder or clarke as they are KPP. And although Ryder had shown a lot of potential, he only came along this year by mistake when he was forced to play in the ruck- IMO he wouldn't have been as good if he was still at CHB- same as Clarke, he got his opportunity when brisbane lost all of their ruckman. Thomas has shown more than Dowler and no need for comparison with JOK(e) and Drum as neither could get a game with their average clubs.

Bottom line is that the pies did very well in the top ten. Thomas and pendlebury are a better combo than Ellis/Dowler and to some extent murphy/kennedy.

Thomas will be a class wingman in 2 years after he has put on about 6kg. He is the only one who runs and carries the ball with pace in the team. He took a forward step this year and will take a bigger one next year.

 

[DThomas]

^ Great post.

 

[Zahki]

I reckon Anthony will be the big improver next year. Only 36 games in, after his first full season of senior football, with Rocca gone he should be ready to start stamping his authority at Full Forward. Really I think he's ahead of the curve already considering how recent his shift to being a forward has been, and with Bucks guidance he can only go up from here.

I feel what you see is what you'll get from O'Brien, Shaw and Pendlebury, I rate all 3 rather highly they are integral parts of the side and they'll continue to be important contributors, but I don't expect any of them to greatly improve.

As for Thomas, this year has clearly been developmental, with Malthouse working with him to improve the defensive aspect of his game. Malthouse places a huge amount of emphasis on defense so it's not surprising. That said next year I hope he becomes a full time midfielder, time for experimentation is over, he needs to be played in the role he is best at then work on maximising his performance in that role rather than the 'jack of all trades' player he currently is.

 

[Bay Pie]

Thomas will be a class wingman in 2 years after he has put on about 6kg. He is the only one who runs and carries the ball with pace in the team. He took a forward step this year and will take a bigger one next year.

This is where I see Daisy playing his best footy. He learnt to be far more acountable this year, which is required to play this role. Just leave him in that role and let him make it his own. Stop chopping and changing it.

I can still see the occasional stint on a HFF, possibly resting.

I expect JA to become a very dangerous prospect next year. If he puts on 3 to 5 kgs while maintaining his speed and agility, he won't get outmuscled as much as he did be Scarlett & Lake. He's kicked about 80 goals from 35 games and been held goalless twice. Once each by Scarlett & Lake. Given how deadly he is in front of goal, I can see alot more forward entries aimed his way and/or more space created for him.

 

[DIDAIC0S]

I understand that, but what I mean is he has unrealistic expectations put on him. Everyone thinks that he should be winning games all on his own and getting mark and goal of the week every week. Which is unrealistic considering that he is only 22 and is adjusting to his new midfield role.

And the Marc Murphy comparisons are pointless, because Thomas and Murphy are completely different players.

Players don't just turn into superstars overnight, it takes time. Take Dane Swan for instance. He debuted in 2003 and didn't start playing consistent matches until 2006. And we all know about how long it took Leon to turn into a star.

Give him some time and then you will see Dale Thomas start to shine.

Leon is a star?!?! Your kidding right?
Turns 29 next year, and still isn't even a reliable kick.
All show, no class.
How he made AA with half a decent season (that half a season in 10 years) is beyond me.

 

[Optimax]

Leon is a star?!?! Your kidding right?
Turns 29 next year, and still isn't even a reliable kick.
All show, no class.???
How he made AA with half a decent season (that half a season in 10 years) is beyond me.

yeah his finals were bad, but you clearly didnt watch him this year

 

[DThomas]

Leon is a star?!?! Your kidding right?
Turns 29 next year, and still isn't even a reliable kick.
All show, no class.
How he made AA with half a decent season (that half a season in 10 years) is beyond me.

No. Why would I be kidding?

If it wasn't for a bad finals series from him people would be saying he had a great year, which he did.

 

[mattys123]

Leon is a star?!?! Your kidding right?
Turns 29 next year, and still isn't even a reliable kick.
All show, no class.
How he made AA with half a decent season (that half a season in 10 years) is beyond me.

I shouldn't even respond to absolute bullshit like this, but I will.

This year, Leon Davis will become the first indigenous player to play 200 games for the mighty Collingwood Football Club, and his journey is nothing short of inspirational.

As a kid, Leon was a shy boy who wanted to go home almost as soon as he landed in Melbourne, yet through constant support from the club, his family and a number of certain supporters, he has reached the heights of an AFL class midfielder.

Leon played 8 very good seasons for us as a forward pocket, averaging about 30 goals a season, something most small forwards only aspire to.

In the last 2 seasons he has developed into a very good outside midfielder, to the point where when he was fit this year, he was just behind Pendles and Swan as our best midfielder.

The Leon Davis story is a great story, and it still has 2-3 years to run, and they will be in black and white.

Leon will win at least 2 games for us off his own boot this year, and his skills are sublime.

Once again, I shouldn't have really responded to such a shit post, but I love what Leon has done for this club, and absolutely hate the "uneducated" that don't really understand how good Leon has become.