Big Bash Future

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4Seasons said:
Club cricketers love T20 though.
Even at club cricket they have been pushing T20.
The only people against it seem to be the guns who think the rest of us are crabs via the internet
Click to expand...
The club cricketers I know do not love T20. At least not playing it. You actually don't get much of a go playing a T20.
 
4Seasons said:
The “guns” are those who take to the internet thinking playing first class or test cricket is somehow easy.
I get this is primarily a football website, and yes some footballers get put on lists due to potential, but there are no “crabs” playing test or first class cricket.
Click to expand...
Could not agree more with your statement cricket board is horrendous for this sort of thing. Doesn’t really relate to the issue of t20 taking over cricket though does it?
 
corbies said:
The club cricketers I know do not love T20. At least not playing it. You actually don't get much of a go playing a T20.
Click to expand...
I’m genuinely shocked by this, given my own experience, but 100% trust what you’re saying,

I’d love to know a couple of details.
Is this across multiple clubs? I’d assume yes but confirmation would help my interest,
Is it across multiple leagues?
Is it across multiple levels?
 

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t_94 said:
Could not agree more with your statement cricket board is horrendous for this sort of thing. Doesn’t really relate to the issue of t20 taking over cricket though does it?
Click to expand...
Lol true, and sorry. I just read some stuff before posting, and was so completely outraged, that I completely went into my lower self.

Anyway, I just think T20 is going to be the main game in terms of the months of the year and money it occupies. Tests will still be played, but most likely during their own small window.

Not my preference, just how I see it.

Shield cricket is what I fear for the most. I currently see it as a competition people claim to love, but only via checking the scores while flicking through the paper. That really is not sustainable. I’m actually shocked at how small the interest is in Aust A four day games, and think it’s a bit of a sign of how things are, There’s some brilliant talent for a cricket purist to observe in those encounters, but again, not much interest.
 
madmug said:
Yes, which is why their needs ti be a serious discussion about the future of the game & the pathways for future players.

All players learn at school, onto grade cricket then the longer forms. Thats how they develop to be the players they are at International level.

If that's all disrupted, where & how do players develop? Where do the T20 franchises go to pick the next 'stars'? They'd have to sift through an awful lot of grade players to find the odd quality player who could slot into the professional game of T20.

Baseball have a system of college & minor leagues. Thats sort of like out grade cricket to state level, then International level systems. So without those, where to next??

Disrupting technologies can be good, as long as something suitable replaces what we have. I guess Packer cricket of 1977 was the last major 'disruption'. It still relied on the old player development systems under pinning it.
Click to expand...
Well, the grade cricket system has been around for roughly 120 years, when the structure of cricket was very different.

So perhaps that is worth looking at?
 
madmug said:
Yes, which is why their needs ti be a serious discussion about the future of the game & the pathways for future players.

All players learn at school, onto grade cricket then the longer forms. Thats how they develop to be the players they are at International level.

If that's all disrupted, where & how do players develop? Where do the T20 franchises go to pick the next 'stars'? They'd have to sift through an awful lot of grade players to find the odd quality player who could slot into the professional game of T20.

Baseball have a system of college & minor leagues. Thats sort of like out grade cricket to state level, then International level systems. So without those, where to next??

Disrupting technologies can be good, as long as something suitable replaces what we have. I guess Packer cricket of 1977 was the last major 'disruption'. It still relied on the old player development systems under pinning it.
Click to expand...
I think the players are going to be identified at a young age, and then developed in developing schools similar to the AIS/Cricket Academy etc.
All the best coaches will be under one umbrella, and the future players will bypass traditional development competitions. New larger national and international secondary competitions will be introduced for competitive cricket amongst these players.

Grade cricket will just be a general suburban league. Shield Cricket will be a competition made up of the best of these left over non professional players, like the local inter league footy club, probably played over a couple of weeks like the Claxton Shield.
 
4Seasons said:
I’m genuinely shocked by this, given my own experience, but 100% trust what you’re saying,

I’d love to know a couple of details.
Is this across multiple clubs? I’d assume yes but confirmation would help my interest,
Is it across multiple leagues?
Is it across multiple levels?
Click to expand...

In my league the T20 competition has shrunk each year with a few top clubs not even fielding a side as no one wants to play. They’d prefer to train and prepare for the real competition.
 
eddiesmith said:
In my league the T20 competition has shrunk each year with a few top clubs not even fielding a side as no one wants to play. They’d prefer to train and prepare for the real competition.
Click to expand...
Cheers and interesting,
What’s the numbers like in the “real” competition compared to previous seasons?
Is the “real” competition expanding in the number of sides it fields, or are the numbers generally down that it has influenced the club’s decisions to not partake in a secondary game?

What standard is the league you’re in? Is it just old guys playing on carpet or is it “real” cricket?
 
madmug said:
It may well be.

What are you thinking might supercede such a system?
Click to expand...
Who knows? It will depend on what the top level of cricket looks like in ten years, I think. Franchise cricket has been a massive change to the structure of cricket, and we're still coming to terms with it.

There was another Tim Wigmore article about it in the Telegraph this week, which starts:

"The long, golden age of international cricket is at an end. Last week, the representatives of national boards met in Birmingham, where they attempted to work out how the international game could co-exist alongside the growth of domestic Twenty20 leagues. Increasingly it is obvious that, rather than leagues having to try to fit around the international game, the international game will have to find space between short-format leagues."

And continues:

"Meanwhile, the negotiations for the new men’s Future Tours Programme show that England and Australia have carved out windows for their short-format leagues, while the IPL is expanding to 2½ months, during which there is no international cricket."

More:

"The rise of freelance cricketers, principally from the West Indies, has been one feature of cricket’s new age. But 12-month contracts, potentially for multiple years, would represent another stage in this evolution, giving T20 specialists genuine security.

The relationship between club and country would become more like football, with players financially dependent upon their clubs. For many players, central contracts with their national boards may seem like an unwanted encumbrance.

The idea of windows for domestic T20 leagues has long been discussed. Yet such is cricket’s trajectory that the notion is the wrong way around: it is international cricket, not leagues, that will require their own window. A senior figure on the T20 franchise circuit predicts that there will soon be three distinct blocks a year in which there is no major international cricket. First, from mid-January to mid-February, when the leagues in Australia, Bangladesh, South Africa and UAE will be played; then from late March to June, during the IPL; and in July or August, when the Hundred, the Caribbean Premier League and Major League Cricket, which launches next year in the US, are played."

And concludes:

"Yet recent years have shown that there is no uncertainty about the perilous state of bilateral cricket. Nearly all matches not involving Australia, England and India now lose money for the hosting board.

South Africa even lost money hosting Australia and England in 2019.

When Cricket West Indies hosted Sri Lanka and Bangladesh in 2018, it lost an extraordinary net $22 million from the two series.

And so a new cricketing calendar is crystallising. National boards will prioritise their own T20 leagues; international fixtures will be fitted around them, with all bar the most lucrative treated as an encumbrance fit to be dropped.

In time, many leagues might approach the length of the IPL, which will take up 2½ months by 2027; for the IPL, we can be sure, this length is part of a journey, not the final destination. Other leagues will need to accept operating at several tiers below the IPL, like mid-sized European football leagues in the shadow of the Premier League and La Liga.

Like in football, global international tournaments will remain vibrant; a select few bilateral international series should do so too. But exactly what else there is room for, in a world in which the primacy of international cricket is shattered, has never been less clear."


So if all of this is the path is heading - which it is, whether we like it or not - maybe a scaled-down version of grade cricket (fewer clubs, for instance) with similar blocks for each format? I do think the Australian summer is too short - this year's earlier start is interesting, and we could certainly go another three or four weeks at the end of the season - so there is extra space. I do like the tournament-style of the ODD comp (whatever that is called this year), where it is played over a month and that's it.

As I said, nobody knows yet what top-tier cricket will look like in ten years. Give it time to work itself out.
 
big_e said:
Who knows? It will depend on what the top level of cricket looks like in ten years, I think. Franchise cricket has been a massive change to the structure of cricket, and we're still coming to terms with it.

There was another Tim Wigmore article about it in the Telegraph this week, which starts:

"The long, golden age of international cricket is at an end. Last week, the representatives of national boards met in Birmingham, where they attempted to work out how the international game could co-exist alongside the growth of domestic Twenty20 leagues. Increasingly it is obvious that, rather than leagues having to try to fit around the international game, the international game will have to find space between short-format leagues."

And continues:

"Meanwhile, the negotiations for the new men’s Future Tours Programme show that England and Australia have carved out windows for their short-format leagues, while the IPL is expanding to 2½ months, during which there is no international cricket."

More:

"The rise of freelance cricketers, principally from the West Indies, has been one feature of cricket’s new age. But 12-month contracts, potentially for multiple years, would represent another stage in this evolution, giving T20 specialists genuine security.

The relationship between club and country would become more like football, with players financially dependent upon their clubs. For many players, central contracts with their national boards may seem like an unwanted encumbrance.

The idea of windows for domestic T20 leagues has long been discussed. Yet such is cricket’s trajectory that the notion is the wrong way around: it is international cricket, not leagues, that will require their own window. A senior figure on the T20 franchise circuit predicts that there will soon be three distinct blocks a year in which there is no major international cricket. First, from mid-January to mid-February, when the leagues in Australia, Bangladesh, South Africa and UAE will be played; then from late March to June, during the IPL; and in July or August, when the Hundred, the Caribbean Premier League and Major League Cricket, which launches next year in the US, are played."

And concludes:

"Yet recent years have shown that there is no uncertainty about the perilous state of bilateral cricket. Nearly all matches not involving Australia, England and India now lose money for the hosting board.

South Africa even lost money hosting Australia and England in 2019.

When Cricket West Indies hosted Sri Lanka and Bangladesh in 2018, it lost an extraordinary net $22 million from the two series.

And so a new cricketing calendar is crystallising. National boards will prioritise their own T20 leagues; international fixtures will be fitted around them, with all bar the most lucrative treated as an encumbrance fit to be dropped.

In time, many leagues might approach the length of the IPL, which will take up 2½ months by 2027; for the IPL, we can be sure, this length is part of a journey, not the final destination. Other leagues will need to accept operating at several tiers below the IPL, like mid-sized European football leagues in the shadow of the Premier League and La Liga.

Like in football, global international tournaments will remain vibrant; a select few bilateral international series should do so too. But exactly what else there is room for, in a world in which the primacy of international cricket is shattered, has never been less clear."


So if all of this is the path is heading - which it is, whether we like it or not - maybe a scaled-down version of grade cricket (fewer clubs, for instance) with similar blocks for each format? I do think the Australian summer is too short - this year's earlier start is interesting, and we could certainly go another three or four weeks at the end of the season - so there is extra space. I do like the tournament-style of the ODD comp (whatever that is called this year), where it is played over a month and that's it.

As I said, nobody knows yet what top-tier cricket will look like in ten years. Give it time to work itself out.
Click to expand...
This is pretty much what I thought in my above comments.
Your last line is spot on, intelligent, and where we are currently at.
 
4Seasons said:
Cheers and interesting,
What’s the numbers like in the “real” competition compared to previous seasons?
Is the “real” competition expanding in the number of sides it fields, or are the numbers generally down that it has influenced the club’s decisions to not partake in a secondary game?

What standard is the league you’re in? Is it just old guys playing on carpet or is it “real” cricket?
Click to expand...

The Saturday comp has expanded in recent years as has the junior comp.

The numbers on Saturdays had no influence on the decisions, the players simply aren’t interested and it’s a very young demographic that has turned its back on T20.
 
big_e said:
And concludes:

"Yet recent years have shown that there is no uncertainty about the perilous state of bilateral cricket. Nearly all matches not involving Australia, England and India now lose money for the hosting board.

South Africa even lost money hosting Australia and England in 2019.

When Cricket West Indies hosted Sri Lanka and Bangladesh in 2018, it lost an extraordinary net $22 million from the two series.
Click to expand...
wasn't that when they had the player's strike, and had to pick a 2nd string side?
 

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eddiesmith said:
The Saturday comp has expanded in recent years as has the junior comp.

The numbers on Saturdays had no influence on the decisions, the players simply aren’t interested and it’s a very young demographic that has turned its back on T20.
Click to expand...
Ok..I look forward to seeing this new reinvigorated junior sector attending the “real” cricket.
I must admit, I was previously depressed going to a Shield game, with 100 other people, and 50 old blokes doing the scoring to fantasise long form cricket is where it’s all at, in the ever changing modern society, but now?

All these “crab” cricketers are going to make a fortune soon on this 5 day game.

And I do love test cricket, maybe more than the people that pretend to,

The second and third days of a test I love, and my wife laughs. This includes watching, guitar practise, a nap, a secondary nap the cat is onto and cuddles to join, followed by me genuinely spewing the day is over, but I had a good feed as I had time to cook an elaborate meal.
And I love test cricket, but it is pretty funny and outdated.

A cricket lover understands cricket is like chess, and like I explained above, he also understands it was a great part of our lives, that will be no more.







And complete imbeciles think Test Cricketers are “crabs”
 
eddiesmith said:
Australia doesn’t win test matches if their players are all playing hit and giggle cricket all year round.

But of course it suits the Twitter generation, got no attention spans and don’t actually care about cricket or if the game they’re watching is any good as long as it’s over quickly.

Fact is BBL is completely rubbish cricket and will struggle even more in a crowded calendar with far more money on offer elsewhere.
Click to expand...
I don't actually understand the argument above and think it lacks a lot of merit.

Is longer cricket necessarily better cricket? Would a 10 day 4 innings/team Test match be better than a 5 day 2 innings/team game based on that argument?
Almost every H2H sport I can think of, is over within hours, not days.

Is it wrong for people with things to do, work, busy lives, families, etc to want a past time (watching a sport they like) be over in one reasonable sitting rather than go for an entire work week equivalent of 5 full days?

Rather than thinking logically about a reasonable answer to those questions, it's easier to just go all "old man yells at cloud" and blame the twitter generation having no attention spans and blah blah blah....

There's a hell of a lot of benefits to T20 cricket. Shorter does not equal worse, and it offers a different display of tactics and skills when every ball and over is important.

The BBL will be as successful as T20 cricket's popularity allows it to be in future.

My personal thought is that with so much competing now in the world for people's time (and money), that the short form of the game that is scalable, watchable, and more accessible will become the dominant form of the sport, as in the most played and watched, within 20 years. The BBL will piggy back off that transition, even if it is in a bit of a lull at the moment.

A rebrand to state based teams wouldn't go astray either I don't think, as I think it's difficult for people to connect with the franchises at the moment.
 
juss said:
I don't actually understand the argument above and think it lacks a lot of merit.

Is longer cricket necessarily better cricket? Would a 10 day 4 innings/team Test match be better than a 5 day 2 innings/team game based on that argument?
Almost every H2H sport I can think of, is over within hours, not days.

Is it wrong for people with things to do, work, busy lives, families, etc to want a past time (watching a sport they like) be over in one reasonable sitting rather than go for an entire work week equivalent of 5 full days?

Rather than thinking logically about a reasonable answer to those questions, it's easier to just go all "old man yells at cloud" and blame the twitter generation having no attention spans and blah blah blah....

There's a hell of a lot of benefits to T20 cricket. Shorter does not equal worse, and it offers a different display of tactics and skills when every ball and over is important.

The BBL will be as successful as T20 cricket's popularity allows it to be in future.

My personal thought is that with so much competing now in the world for people's time (and money), that the short form of the game that is scalable, watchable, and more accessible will become the dominant form of the sport, as in the most played and watched, within 20 years. The BBL will piggy back off that transition, even if it is in a bit of a lull at the moment.

A rebrand to state based teams wouldn't go astray either I don't think, as I think it's difficult for people to connect with the franchises at the moment.
Click to expand...
An alternative view

Once upon a time, sport was for everyone.

The short fat kid could play back pocket, the dorky tall kid could open the batting and knock the shine off the new ball, the honest little toiler could work away with his n length. The small kid with good hand eye was the wicket keeper. Small kids but talented player forward pocket, kids lacking courage played on the wing. Talented kids did whatever they wanted.

Importantly, everyone had a role and was encouraged, the little leg spinner could have a few overs in two day cricket, kids could get a bat in the 2nd innings to learn how to play. They all remained involved, elite talent always found its way to the next level but more importantly those blokes stayed involved and became stalwarts of the community clubs that underpin the big time.

* with that and you * with the fabric of both games.

And as someone involved at grassroots in both games - we are doing untold damage to community level of both sports.

Shorten the game and you lose so much of it.

its bullshit
 
western royboy said:
An alternative view

Once upon a time, sport was for everyone.

The short fat kid could play back pocket, the dorky tall kid could open the batting and knock the shine off the new ball, the honest little toiler could work away with his n length. The small kid with good hand eye was the wicket keeper. Small kids but talented player forward pocket, kids lacking courage played on the wing. Talented kids did whatever they wanted.

Importantly, everyone had a role and was encouraged, the little leg spinner could have a few overs in two day cricket, kids could get a bat in the 2nd innings to learn how to play. They all remained involved, elite talent always found its way to the next level but more importantly those blokes stayed involved and became stalwarts of the community clubs that underpin the big time.

* with that and you * with the fabric of both games.

And as someone involved at grassroots in both games - we are doing untold damage to community level of both sports.

Shorten the game and you lose so much of it.

its bullshit
Click to expand...
At a local level, and junior level, sport is for everyone.
The elite level isn't a charity, only the best get there.

I'm not quite sure what your post means in relation to the future of the BBL/T20?
 
frankrizzo said:
There is nothing CA can do if things continue to head the way they are heading, we are at the adults table now with international cricket making so much money for big nations but as soon as that switches and domestic comps are the driving force we are going to the kids table its just reality of the sport and where the money is generated in domestic comps, without the lure of test match cricket we have no hold over our best players and without the cash we have nothing to keep them here or attract the best overseas talent so when talent leaves for greener pastures the tv deals leave with them and we will be the nbl to the the overseas nba which can simply outspend us for every world class player.
Click to expand...
Can see one of two future options:

1. The BBL becomes like the A-League in soccer and Australia becomes a feeder for the IPL.
2. The IPL makes an offer CA can't refuse and buys the BBL (Hobart Hurricanes become the Hobart Knight Riders and so on)

After a few years, the IPL decides that "unfortunately there is just no room in the schedule for test matches" and that's the end of cricket as we loved it.
 
juss said:
I don't actually understand the argument above and think it lacks a lot of merit.

Is longer cricket necessarily better cricket? Would a 10 day 4 innings/team Test match be better than a 5 day 2 innings/team game based on that argument?
Almost every H2H sport I can think of, is over within hours, not days.

Is it wrong for people with things to do, work, busy lives, families, etc to want a past time (watching a sport they like) be over in one reasonable sitting rather than go for an entire work week equivalent of 5 full days?

Rather than thinking logically about a reasonable answer to those questions, it's easier to just go all "old man yells at cloud" and blame the twitter generation having no attention spans and blah blah blah....

There's a hell of a lot of benefits to T20 cricket. Shorter does not equal worse, and it offers a different display of tactics and skills when every ball and over is important.

The BBL will be as successful as T20 cricket's popularity allows it to be in future.

My personal thought is that with so much competing now in the world for people's time (and money), that the short form of the game that is scalable, watchable, and more accessible will become the dominant form of the sport, as in the most played and watched, within 20 years. The BBL will piggy back off that transition, even if it is in a bit of a lull at the moment.

A rebrand to state based teams wouldn't go astray either I don't think, as I think it's difficult for people to connect with the franchises at the moment.
Click to expand...
A white ball does not move off the straight; which significantly reduces the difficulty of batting to the extent that huge scores are a formality.
 
t_94 said:
A white ball does not move off the straight; which significantly reduces the difficulty of batting to the extent that huge scores are a formality.
Click to expand...

This is why I find T20 boring - it's too batter oriented. Suggestions:
  • allow 3 bouncers per over
  • do away with over limits per bowler
  • more uneven pitches
  • bigger boundaries
  • bigger seam on white ball
 
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