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Big Jack Elloitt
- Thread starter surpstar
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Yeh. Couldn't have happened to a nicer bloke.surpstar said:
The Old Dark Navy's
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- #3
It is sad that he had ended up the way he has and as a human being, you can have sympathy for him but there is a price for extreme arrogance and Jack is probably reaping what he has sewn.
What you burn ends up burning you.
That's one of my philosophies in work rest and play and I fear that he burnt a few people on the way up and therefore he's copping his own now.
I do feel sorry for him though, you never like seeing someone fall from grace like that (oh, hold on that Christopher Skase deserved everything he got).
That's one of my philosophies in work rest and play and I fear that he burnt a few people on the way up and therefore he's copping his own now.
I do feel sorry for him though, you never like seeing someone fall from grace like that (oh, hold on that Christopher Skase deserved everything he got).
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I have no sympathy at all. He could see for ages that Waterwheel holdings was insolvent.
ODN.The Old Dark Navy's said:
Agree completly with you.But YOU have said some nasty things about him.
Well, he did leave the Blues in a bad position, but I do feel sympathy for him. No-one deserves what he;s gone through, and he was a good for the club.
The Old Dark Navy's
Moderator
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- #8
And?Bombers 2003 said:
Did I not state that he is reaping what he has sewn? In other words, it is his own fault. I still believe in having empathy for people in most cases.
Jack was boorish, sexist, politically incorrect and self serving especially towards the end. I believe the evidence speaks for itself. Doesn't mean he didn't do a good job at some stage, doesn't mean he isn't navy blue at heart. Ego ego ego ego .... can't spell it out any better than that.
What was your point again?
1-Perhaps he did reap what he sowed.The Old Dark Navy's said:
2-Is Collo a genuine Carlton man?or a league imposed Clone?.
The Old Dark Navy's
Moderator
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- #12
No doubt about it.Bombers 2003 said:
No, he's a fairy princess. Of course he is a real Carlton man. He played 161 games for the club including the 1968 premiership. He was our Executive Director for years before joining the AFL in 1993 as Director of Football Operations. The AFL did not impose Collo on the club. He was already out of the AFL when he challenged Elliott for the presidency.
Do you actually know where your line of questioning is leading or are you being intentionally cryptic?
Sympathy?
None at all, a lot of small investors did thier money with Jack.
Wasn't that great for the club either, failed to maintain the foundations built by the Harris administration, the 87 win was due to the recruiting put in place prior to assention to power, the 95 win was the only premiership he can genuinly claim, not a good result for a 20 year administration. Personally though he should have gone after the 90 season and definately after the scandals of 95.
None at all, a lot of small investors did thier money with Jack.
Wasn't that great for the club either, failed to maintain the foundations built by the Harris administration, the 87 win was due to the recruiting put in place prior to assention to power, the 95 win was the only premiership he can genuinly claim, not a good result for a 20 year administration. Personally though he should have gone after the 90 season and definately after the scandals of 95.
L84AD8
Team Captain
The Old Dark Navy's said:No doubt about it.
No, he's a fairy princess. Of course he is a real Carlton man. He played 161 games for the club including the 1968 premiership. He was our Executive Director for years before joining the AFL in 1993 as Director of Football Operations. The AFL did not impose Collo on the club. He was already out of the AFL when he challenged Elliott for the presidency.
Do you actually know where your line of questioning is leading or are you being intentionally cryptic?
No doubting his Carlton credentials but being a bit of a conspiracy theorist I cant help but Fox Mulder my head to thinking that the AFL may have tinkered with the controls a bit in getting Collo to the top job at Carlton.
Me thinks Big jack was getting a bit to precocious for the Afl in that he was ready to lock horns with the establishment on a range of game defining issues predominantly the Salary Cap....Big Ed, me thinks acted a bit like his Scully in that both chiefs were working in cahoots to destablise the biased AFL ...AFL won jackpot-lotto when Big Jacks business world imploded as they then had a platform to destroy his credentials and reputation...Big Jack has mentioned on many an occasion that the AFL would now be in court had he still been around...
Collo was around the mark for sure but he was somewhat encouraged to go the top job given his 'close working relationship' with the AFL in his role as Telstra dome boss....even though that is publicly seen as being outside the AFL hierarchy....
Bring back Big jack
- Banned
- #15
Collo is no AFL-imposed stooge, but (in my opinion) the fact he gets along quite well with the AFL can only be good for carlton in the long run.
Jack, well i can't add anything that ODN hasn't already said.
Jack, well i can't add anything that ODN hasn't already said.
Woodson
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Deej said:
Already forgotten and forgiven Collo on the 'ridiculous umpire pushing suspension'. That was one surprising step that Collo took that I thought was OVER THE TOP. 9 weeks for that ???
ah, good for Carlton in the long run in retrospect !! Deej said:
Collo is a joke he may of played for Carlton but in his 150 games he was no superstar. He got a start in footy admin at Carlton but moved on to the afl at the expence of being seen to favour Carlton. He handed some unjust findings against them (Greg Williams). He has a conflict of interest with the Telstra Dome / Optus Oval issue. I know that Optus have redone their deal with Carlton but he will not try his hardest to keep them long term.
His handling of black friday was gutless to say the least, he basically finished the AFL investigation for them. Look at the Essendon as soon as they get into a corner with salary cap and the umpire issues they make it known that they will take legal action if they think the outcome will be unfair. Then the Afl treats them more lightly (or it could Ron Evans) but Collo just rolls over.
Carlton to be successful again needs a high profile likeable personality, to get the corporate dollar & the massive blue army rolling together if that means moving to telstra at the expense of Optus so be it. But lets get some in the top job who bring everyone back.
The Old Dark Navy's
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Do you have to be a star player to be a decent president?bluevegas said:
He made a career move, nothing damning there.
Not sure here. Wasn't Collo responsible for citing Diesel but not for the actual sentence?
That is usually an issue for opposition clubs as Collo is in a position to give Carlton a better deal, nothing we should complain about. Through all of the COI claims, we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that Collo sat out the home ground meetings and besides, we got 6 at the Dome, 5 at the G and 3 mill of the AFL's money.
I have a problem with a Carlton supporter bagging the Carlton president over something that hasn't happened yet, particularly when he did the right thing and got Optus back on board in the first place.
He possibly did roll over. One thing is for certain, he wasn't about to fight the AFL and defend Jack Elliott in the process. Who knows what deal he thought he had struck with the AFL for leniency? Who knows how deep the well really went?
I always believed Collo would be in the job for a short time and still would like someone else to take over, however ..... the Blues have turned around a dire financial position since Collo took over and we have experienced record membership numbers. Like him or not, that is not open to debate.
he is a bad business man and got what was comming to him
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The Old Dark Navy Blues} No said:
'A bad businessman',HARDLY.He made mistakes,yes,but 'bad',no.crazy_big_al said:
Problem i have with this,he was at the AFL for too long and has little sympathy for the 'average'football 'punter'.Deej said:
No, but look at collingwood it doesn't need to be a star player how about a star performer in the media or maybe a celeb.The Old Dark Navy's said:
you should know by now that the dealings of such lead to kangaroo courts. You may not fire the gun but if you load the bullets doesn't that make you guilty?The Old Dark Navy's said:
That shows me that he thought wrong, people who make bad deals should goThe Old Dark Navy's said:
Anyone could of turned the blues finances around when you include the AFL's fine in the previous boards balance sheet.The Old Dark Navy's said:
Also very easy to depreciate a stand within the staduim at an increase of 40%. I may not be a CPA but iam no fool when it comes to knowing if i've been had in some very dodgy creative accounting.
The Old Dark Navy's
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- #24
The president isn't merely a figurehead put in place to win people over. They need some business nous, they need to be able to make tough decisions. Eddie is the only 'celebrity' that holds a club presidency, the rest have business experience. Are you suggesting that 15 clubs have got it wrong? Maybe we should get Larry Emdur to be our president? If you can guess our profit or loss for the year, you can win a new car. Higher, lower, higher, lower, hooray you win.bluevegas said:
Seriously, our marketable commodities are on the field and that's the way it should be. The president should be strong and accountable, not a blowhard show pony.
He might have pushed the agenda but handling of umpires was rare and not something the AFL wanted to encourage. Collo did what he thought he needed to do for his employer, the AFL and in the process demonstrated that he did not have a conflict of interest because he did not take it easy on the club he had an allegiance to. The penalty might have been wrong but he showed he was a stand up guy much to our detriment. Do you think he should have ignored it because it was Carlton? Would you have preferred he was corrupt?
That showed nothing. It showed that we don't know what else the AFL might have had on us. Did you see the anger at the press conference afterwards? Did you see how peeved Demetriou was when we went in to the press conference and said how unfair the penalty was? That shows two things. 1) Carlton believed that the AFL had gone back on an undertaking to be lenient. 2) The AFL believed that the penalty was more than fair.
Let me remind you that Collo came into the job just days before the hearing and had no access to information before that. Let me remind you that we can only go on the official charges which make the penalties seem severe but we were not privy to any other potential breaches so we can't judge.
The easy part is to say that we should have challenged it in court and most of us believe we should have. The scary part is wondering if we couldn't challenge it because the penalty could have been increased.
Wasn't Jack manipulating the figures on the stand to paint a rosier picture before he was ousted? If Collo was painting a poor picture in order to look better when we recovered or if in fact the picture is still as poor as it was, there is one inescapable fact here. Collo did not make the situation, Jack did. Collo did not earn the AFL fine, Jack did. Collo did not build the grandstand, Jack did. You can not expect Collo do cop the blame for something done under Jack's administration, no matter how you want to twist it.
Under Jack:
*Player salaries skyrocketing. Remember how we were more than a million dollars over our cap before 2003 started and Collo had to negotiate pay cuts across the board? It's seems certain that Carlton would have gone into season 2003 under Jack $1 mill over the cap. What sort of creative accounting would have happened there and what sort of fine if the AFL found out?
*Spiralling debt: The grandstand was a big white elephant and was costing us big time, our facilities third world in comparison to other venues and the wolves at the door as contracts were left unpaid.
*No rebuilding policy: Jack refused to rebuild and that is why we continually topped up with players and why we eventually took our first wooden spoon and ended up with the worst list in the AFL.
*Inane rantings and attacks on other clubs for no good reason.
*Negative publicity every time he showed up drunk at a function and sexually harassed women at the function.
Under Collo:
*Player salaries under control and under the cap.
*Debt stabilised and working towards paying every cent
*Strange in recruiting strategy. We are rebuilding, we do have a youth policy and our morale has increased immensely.
*Record membership numbers (not bad for a non-celebrity)
Regardless of what you think of Collo, regardless of your ties to a regime long past its use by date and past glories, the fact is Collo is not there to win a popularity contest. He was there to tighten the belts, take stock of past mistakes and strategise a way forward. We are heading that way despite constant sniping from a minority associated with the club.
1-Is Emdur a carlton man?.But there is nothing wrong with a 'celebrity' as club president.The Old Dark Navy's said:
2-On business 'nouce','Percy' Jones has considerable experience there.
3-When 'Collo'was a administrator at Carlton,the only 'youth policy'was to ignore the youth and go for big 'name'players at the expense of youth development.Many clubs have been ruined by a policy of chasing 'big names'and 'glory' for the sake of 'glory'.
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