Biggest improvers in 2001

[Tom FC]

Who will be our biggest improvers in 2001?

We've got about half-a-dozen up and comers who are on the verge of breaking into the top team, and are about where Simon Black and Luke Power were a couple of years ago.
Does anyone have any opinions on which ones will make the grade?

Potential Candidates:
Craig Bolton
Damien Cupido
Nathan Clarke
Trent Knobel
Des Headland
Ben Robbins
Jonathon Brown
Marcus Picken
Damien Cupido
Shannon Rusca

Plus any more I've forgotten.
Personally I think the flashy types, Cupido and Clarke for example, will have less of a chance than Jonathon Brown or Craig Bolton, because Leigh is so big on team players.

I think maybe Craig Bolton because he probably learnt more about footy at AFL level than any of these players this year, in that he was the first to start learning to play accountable footy.

 

[Mr Ripper]

Dessie Headland for the Brownlow!

 

[lioness]

Hey Tom FC, like your list. I do tend to agree with you on most points in your post.

Jonathon Brown is my tip for biggest improver in 2001, provided he gets sufficient game time.

 

[InTheBack!]

Tom FC,

Most on your list will improve I hope. One I really want to fire up is Des Headland. In the reserves he looks like a million dollars, but in the big game his body language is all wrong & he looks out of sorts.

I suppose it must be a confidence problem? We know he dosent want to play for the Lions, but I cannot think of any young player in AFL with his untapped talent, so no wonder the Lions want to keep him.

I hope in 2001 he gets some good game time & comes to his senses & realize that playing finals for the Lions is waaaaay better than playing for a WA club.

 

[Lionsrock_15_26]

Defintely Craig Bolton - he's a ready heady player and a real team player. Loads of potenial and he will be a regualar this year.

cheers

 

[Denno]

Hopefully Headland & Cupido can become exciting full-time members of the senior 22, while JB is sure to become more of an influential player with more game time, as evidenced by his end to the season last year.

Fingers crossed!

 

[The Lukester]

My picks for the most improved in 2001 are

Nathan Clarke will most definatly shine in 2001 even though we didn't see Clarkey a lot during the 2000 season he showed us what he is made of in the couple of games he did play in.

I agree with Lions Rock_15_26 Bolts will be one for the imporve in the 2001 season.

JB will be another to improve in the 2001 season.

I would also like to add Aaron Shattock to the list of players to improve in 2001. He played in 9 games during the 2000 season and was in the possionions when it counted and also he played hard at the ball during all the Ressies games he played in during the season, he was unlucky about missing out of the Final the Lions Reserves played in the AFLQ with a suspention the week prior to the game.


GO CLARKEY, SHATTS, BOLTS AND JB IN 2001!!!!!

------------------
Signing off with GO THE MIGHTY LIONS IN 2001

 

[Dodongo]

Des Headland. He now has that number 1 good luck guernsey which Champs wore for all his career.

 

[Jethro Q Walrustitty]

Originally posted by Dodongo:
Des Headland. He now has that number 1 good luck guernsey which Champs wore for all his career.

Couldn't they buy him a new one?

 

[3KZ is Football]

Hey Tom FC, like your list. I do tend to agree with you on most points in your post.

Jonathon Brown is my tip for biggest improver in 2001, provided he gets sufficient game time.

Congratulations lioness, a little late but you win! You tipped this!

 

[Ironmonger]

Always a danger when threads you started 12 years ago get bumped.

I'm glad I didn't nominate Shannon Rusca for most improved, or something.

 

[Mr Ripper]

That was a half-decent zinger from JQW, there, even if I do say do myself!

 

[adey115]

Cupido was on that list twice.

I still reckon he's a chance...

 

[3KZ is Football]

Cupido was on that list twice.

I still reckon he's a chance...

He had twice as much potential as a few on that list!

 

[irel]

Interesting that only Brown managed a long term successful career with the Lions.
Bolton become a premiership and an AA player with the Swans and the rest turned out to be duds.

Which points to an interesting comparison with Geelong and why they have managed to have a successful longevity and generational transition.

It's all in the planning and development. Massive difference in quality of club administration at both clubs. Especially at Geelong. Gubby, Kelly, Bowers and others have a lot to answer turning our club into a basket-case.

Matthews should not escape critical analysis after 2005 in how he managed the transition. It is now easy to take pot shots at Voss but the team's deterioration has it's roots in 2005 under his tenure. The even more unfortunate aspect is that the current administration which has been in place now for a few years has also been found wanting. The current administration gives all the appearance of being equally incompetent and fearful of making critical and timely change decisions.

 

[Dylan12]

Gubby, Kelly, Bowers and others have a lot to answer turning our club into a basket-case.

The even more unfortunate aspect is that the current administration which has been in place now for a few years has also been found wanting. The current administration gives all the appearance of being equally incompetent and fearful of making critical and timely change decisions.

As you rightly point out irel, unfortunately there are still a number of people on the current board that were up to their necks in the decisions that were made which turned our club into said basket-case.

And yet we are expecting our club to move forward with different outcomes under these very same people, who lets be honest, are only interested in the status of being on the Brisbane Lions board as opposed to giving a shit about the sustained longevity of the club. I mean the ignorance is astounding. This is the same board, or very close to, that was spouting in their vision of the club to be something like the best or leading sporting organisation in Australia. What a load of self-serving bullshit and to put it bluntly, they have fallen so wide of the mark it is not funny considering our present position.

 

[Ironmonger]

Matthews should not escape critical analysis after 2005 in how he managed the transition. It is now easy to take pot shots at Voss but the team's deterioration has it's roots in 2005 under his tenure. The even more unfortunate aspect is that the current administration which has been in place now for a few years has also been found wanting. The current administration gives all the appearance of being equally incompetent and fearful of making critical and timely change decisions.

I think you can even go back further than 2005. When he arrived at the Lions in 1999 he took over an established (albeit young) group of players and got the absolute best out of them. He had an immediate impact on players like Akermanis and Leppitsch, and raw youngsters like Power and Black, but he didn't really develop too many elite players right from the beginning, over a period of time, with the notable exception of Jonathan Brown.

Even at Collingwood, Matthews was never really a development coach. It took Collingwood years to recover from his tenure, and the same for us. I doubt either team has any regrets, but in hindsight the Matthews premierships look like a bit of a Faustian bargain.

 

[POBT]

I think you can even go back further than 2005. When he arrived at the Lions in 1999 he took over an established (albeit young) group of players and got the absolute best out of them. He had an immediate impact on players like Akermanis and Leppitsch, and raw youngsters like Power and Black, but he didn't really develop too many elite players right from the beginning, over a period of time, with the notable exception of Jonathan Brown.

Even at Collingwood, Matthews was never really a development coach. It took Collingwood years to recover from his tenure, and the same for us. I doubt either team has any regrets, but in hindsight the Matthews premierships look like a bit of a Faustian bargain.

I'm not sure if I've misunderstood you but I think Matthews was a very good development coach. Players under him improved substantially. He gave limited players defined roles which they excelled at and he brought through several talented players to be integral parts of premiership sides. There will always be the age old argument of whether it is recruiting or developing but I think that Matthews deserves some credit for developing (or further developing) a lot of the players who ultimately won 3 flags.

As far as the underlined bit goes, when you are winning premierships, the opportunity to grab really talented youngsters is minimised. And, after all, he had Des Headland tracking towards elite in his time here and can't really be blamed for where his career ended up.

In terms of the legacy issues from his days at both Brisbane and Collingwood, those are fair comments. But I think that is more about taking a shorter term approach to list management than his capacity to "develop" players. He chose a path which left those clubs in a not so great place upon his departure (noting that we made the finals the year after he left so couldn't have been in completely awful shape at that time) but I don't think that is about his ability to develop players - more that he was willing to sacrifice anything in attempting winning a flag.

I don't defend some of Matthews' short-termism. But I think that is very different to questioning his capacity to develop players.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Some quality posts here. Well done confreres. I'm glad I bumped the thread.

 

[SizeMatters]

Matthews would always play the strongest teams week in week out. Might not be a bad thing but when we were up against Fremantle etc. (bottom of the ladder teams) he could have at least blooded young players to get them experience and rest the older players etc. He just never done that and it stalled their development.

 

[POBT]

Matthews would always play the strongest teams week in week out.

Most coaches in that era did. The idea of rotating players in and out of the senior side is fairly new. Besides, I saw Shaun Hart and the Scott brothers play reserves footy. I remember Lynchy being given "rests".

He also played a 19 yo centre half forward, a 21 year old ruck rover, a 21 year old forward pocket and a handful of players in their early twenties in a premiership side. It wasn't as though he was totally opposed to playing the kids.

I also think that our memories tend to block out the fact that we weren't a completely dominant side in rounds 1-22 of our premiership years.

 

[Ironmonger]

I don't defend some of Matthews' short-termism. But I think that is very different to questioning his capacity to develop players.

I don't think you can completely distinguish between Matthews' short-termism and his capacity to develop players.

Perhaps it would be helpful to differentiate between the development of really raw players from the beginning of their careers to the end, and developing players at different stages of their careers. It's possible for a club to be very good at turning raw 18 year old draftees into mature AFL standard footballers, but not turning mature AFL standard footballers into elite players, and vice versa.

The impression I have of Matthews' tenures at Collingwood and Brisbane is that he could get the most out of AFL-ready players, but wasn't quite as good at helping kids address the barriers to them becoming AFL ready.

I take your point that many of the players coming through in those successful eras just weren't as talented, but I'm not sure that totally explains why we unearthed so few long term prospects during that time. Even our early draft picks tended to be more misses than hits, particularly second rounders.

Of course it was pretty tough for players like Robbins, Clarke, Cupido and Headland to get into the team at all, but that wasn't so much of a factor once the premiership years were over, and yet we still had similar problems.

Some quality posts here. Well done confreres. I'm glad I bumped the thread.

Yeah, it's actually kind of fun to look at these things in hindsight, instead of guessing about the future.

 

[POBT]

From our premiership era, Matthews brought through Brown, Black, Power, Bradshaw, Notting, McGrath, Headland, Copeland, McDonald, Charman. All of those players had the majority of their formative years under Matthews.

At Collingwood, he gave debuts to several of their 1990 premiership players including Crosisca, McGuane, Monkhurst, Gavin Brown, Scott Russell, Craig Kelly, Craig Starcevich.

I think there a misconception that Matthews was handed the pieces of a premiership jigsaw at both Collingwood and Brisbane and simply had to put them together. I would argue that he had to build Collingwood's premiership side and, from our perspective, had a lot of work to turn unfulfilled talent into bona fide stars and to turn very young footballers into integral players in a premiership side. I'm not sure a coach who was not good at developing players could have succeeded at either club.

 

[3KZ is Football]

I've posted this before, but here is the senior playing group that Matthews left for Voss. Four years after our last Grand Final, there are some signs of an attempted rebuild, but the list lacks cohesion.

http://finalsiren.com/Fixture.asp?TeamID=2&SeasonID=2008&Go=Go

While it is not translating to wins on the park, by 2013, I do feel Voss has built a better list, but at present he doesn't seem as capable as Leigh was of getting the most out of what he has. In 2009; however, coaching basically the same list to the finals was quite an achievement for Voss. Perhaps, looking back, that was as good as it is ever going to get for Vossie.

 

[BuntonRules]

IIRC, after 2003 Leigh went to the board & said which way do I go - chase another flag, or workv to the future. He was told to go for the glory. I have no problem with what he left us with.