Blaming Wallace

[Tigerman20]

Is like blaming George Bush for the Republican administration.
Sack the whole board and let the supporters take over!!! Revolution!!!

Lol jokes,

Anyway what I mean is that the coach is just the tip of the ice berg and I think the Richmond football club more than any other club knows that sacking coaches isn't always the answer. Cos its worked for us in the past right?

I half want terry to stay on. We haven't been playing terrible footy. We just need to get rid of the deadweight and recruit some fowards and bigger players.

 

[thecotch]

The buck stops with the coach. He is very well paid and in charge of making the right decisions and getting the absolute best out of his players. Wallace hasn't.

 

[smasha]

The buck stops with the coach. He is very well paid and in charge of making the right decisions and getting the absolute best out of his players. Wallace hasn't.

Hmm Bomber Thompson was in the same predicament but the Geelong board had faith and balls enough to give him another contract and the rest is history.

If anyone needs to be told to walk,it's some of our insipid players!!!

 

[thecotch]

Hmm Bomber Thompson was in the same predicament but the Geelong board had faith and balls enough to give him another contract and the rest is history.

If anyone needs to be told to walk,it's some of our insipid players!!!

This is true but thompson didn't have 6 thirty year old players on his list 5 of which simply haven't stood up when it counted most during critical games. Our senior core stinks and has done so since wallace became coach.

 

[Ruanaidh]

Where is the blame queue? I want to be in it

 

[Khan]

76 This one wont count

 

[ata40]

Our biggest failure under Wallace’s reign has been our senior players, they have been the difference when we compare ourselves to the likes of Hawthorn or even Essendon. When we talk blame we need to include them.

Richo – although an emotional star, Richo is a flawed star. His most consistent football has been under the Wallace reign however that has been when away from the forward line. Richo for all his perseverance has chocked the development of our fwd line and made us very very predictable to coach against. Opposition clubs had no problem allowing him to take 15 marks because it only meant 3 or 4 goals, yet many predictable entries into the fwd line that could be easily rebounded. Wallace has had no option but to keep Richo in the fwd line until he had someone or something better to replace him with (initially Schultz, then Hughes now Riewolt).

Bowden – when a few years ago King referred to “can’t teach an old dog new tricks” he was talking about Bowden. Joel’s tries to play the quarterback role at a speed and with a lack of urgency that closes down everything in front of him. Too small to take the big fwd, to petulant to do the hard things (he has had 70+ possessions in the last two weeks with 1 tackle). Our best run and carry football was when he was playing seconds last year. Wallace has had no option but to keep Bowden in the back line until he had someone better to replace him with (initially his brother, then raines, then mcmahon).

Brown – has not been the same player since that injury. His lack of sustained leg speed has made it easy for opposition backs to peel of him, and his lack of defensive pressure has also been exposed. Brown is a case of “what could have been” when he was struck down at his absolute peak (initially krakeur, then Pettifer now Morton).

Simmo – the career ending injury to Knobel has put too much load on Simmonds especially with the slow and injury prone development of Pattison and Graham. Hit his peak a few years ago but has been going downhill ever since.

Johnson - Has tried hard and has led because there was no-one better to lead. Behind the scenes leader whose best football was left behind in Adelaide. Wallace has had no option but to keep Johnson in the midfield until he had someone or something better to replace him with (Foley/Tuck/Coughlan/Cotchin/Jackson/White

 

[Crumden]

Fairly good summation of the older guys ata. Richo's missed shots on goal have been soul-destroying at times as well. But its hard to level blame at the big dufus when he has been one of the few to provide some excitement for us over the years.

One thing that has been mentioned a few times on Foxtels league teams this year is the resources clubs put into player development. Apparently Neale Daniher made the comment to Parkin that when he was at Melbourne they had 17 guys involved in development then moved to West Coast where there are 31 blokes involved, almost one per player.

They have mentioned a couple of times that this is where Richmond has been behind other clubs. BT and Parko have both said they rate Wallace as a coach but said Richmond were behind the eight ball compared to wealthier clubs. Liam Pickering said one of the young blokes in his player stable at Richmond didn't have a development coach until his third year on the list. (Didn't mention names but another time mentioned how Danny Meyer is one of his boys and is improving since going to Port - although he's yet to crack a game there at AFL level). Easy to see why some of our young blokes take so long to develop compared to other clubs in that case.

BT also said earlier in the season that there had been too many selfish players at the club and it started in his era around 1983 when they tried to clear out too many premiership players at the club. When Pickering questioned whether you can blame culture on things that happened that long ago, BT said his era passed it on to Trevor Poole's era who passed it on to Richo's era due to the overlap of players (I don't think he was singling out those players, just using them to represent a period in time).

Having said all that, I think Plough has lost focus on his own plan and is looking and sounding a bit defeated at the moment. I'll elaborate my thoughts on that in another thread when I get a bit of time.

 

[a_fighting_fury]

Hmm Bomber Thompson was in the same predicament but the Geelong board had faith and balls enough to give him another contract and the rest is history.

If anyone needs to be told to walk,it's some of our insipid players!!!

Smasha, you cant compare Wallace to Thompson in this instance - 2 different people, 2 diferent coaches, and 2 totally different scenarios. Bomber was always a good coach but was "distracted" in '06 but got his shit together the year after.

Wallace, I have decided, is a spin-doctor with only good-average coaching skills. Not good enough in todays game, and his record shows this.

 

[smasha]

Smasha, you cant compare Wallace to Thompson in this instance - 2 different people, 2 diferent coaches, and 2 totally different scenarios. Bomber was always a good coach but was "distracted" in '06 but got his shit together the year after.

Wallace, I have decided, is a spin-doctor with only good-average coaching skills. Not good enough in todays game, and his record shows this.

Nearly got the Bulldogs to a GF.

Yeah shit coach.

We need to cull the list.

Make the players accountable for once.

 

[Rancid_Beasties]

Bomber, in his first 6 years of rebuilding (2000-2005), got geelong to 3 finals series with a lowest finish of 12th. If Wallace achieved those figures, we'd be knighting him. To compare Wallace to Bomber and say that "geelong gave bomber time therefore we should give wallace time" is an argument that expired about 2 years ago. I'm no Wallace basher...in fact I will defend the abysmal state of the list when he began, but enough is enough.

 

[Barnzy]

That player without a development coach until his 3rd year on the list that Pickering mentioned is JON by the way.

 

[Bojangles17]

Fairly good summation of the older guys ata. Richo's missed shots on goal have been soul-destroying at times as well. But its hard to level blame at the big dufus when he has been one of the few to provide some excitement for us over the years.

One thing that has been mentioned a few times on Foxtels league teams this year is the resources clubs put into player development. Apparently Neale Daniher made the comment to Parkin that when he was at Melbourne they had 17 guys involved in development then moved to West Coast where there are 31 blokes involved, almost one per player.

They have mentioned a couple of times that this is where Richmond has been behind other clubs. BT and Parko have both said they rate Wallace as a coach but said Richmond were behind the eight ball compared to wealthier clubs. Liam Pickering said one of the young blokes in his player stable at Richmond didn't have a development coach until his third year on the list. (Didn't mention names but another time mentioned how Danny Meyer is one of his boys and is improving since going to Port - although he's yet to crack a game there at AFL level). Easy to see why some of our young blokes take so long to develop compared to other clubs in that case.

BT also said earlier in the season that there had been too many selfish players at the club and it started in his era around 1983 when they tried to clear out too many premiership players at the club. When Pickering questioned whether you can blame culture on things that happened that long ago, BT said his era passed it on to Trevor Poole's era who passed it on to Richo's era due to the overlap of players (I don't think he was singling out those players, just using them to represent a period in time).

Having said all that, I think Plough has lost focus on his own plan and is looking and sounding a bit defeated at the moment. I'll elaborate my thoughts on that in another thread when I get a bit of time.

intresting that, some element of truth and fuels my drive to have a seasoned coach to take charge...I cant work out that bit about 31 development coaches, do they count the trainers...doesnt make any ****en sense...I notice that Meyer hasnt been able to break into PA side, think we just need to concede he wasone of a production line of 5"10 70 kg jump jockeys that arrived at punt rd with lights in their eyes only to leave two bit bums on their last chance

 

[Crumden]

16 goal a game footy

On plough, might as well give my thoughts here.

When Wallace arrived at the club he was talking about getting the team to play attacking footy and kicking 16 goals a game. He didn't have the cattle originally but started to get it together. Weaver had a post on a thread that is now locked that explained the plan pretty well (even if some parts of that post have proven wrong, the general thrust of what the plan was was right)- http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4902872&postcount=68. I think the plan itself was ok, but Plough's problem is that he is too easily seduced by premiership sides.

First it was sydney, which didn't work out too bad for us. Looking at their stoppage play filled a major weakness with our team. We went from being one of the worst teams around the stoppages to one of the better teams at winning clearances. But then came geelong's possession game and Hawthorns zone. But we don't have the silky skills of an Ablett-Bartel-Corey-Ling centre combination that makes geelongs high possession game work, and we don't have the twin towers up forward that make hawthorns structure work. And we seemed to be attracted to hawthorns hardnuts, overlooking that they primarily target blokes that can kick.(give me Meyer over Hislop anytime). We strayed towards one pace players instead of the speedsters we were meant to be building around .

What we should be doing is to take risks and move the ball forward as quickly as possible. I saw Essendon playing that way last week. They turned the ball over repeatedly but stuck with the plan against hawthorn and as it turned their way the confidence kicked in. That's the type of game Wallace brought to our club. The game we still see flashes of, like the 8 goal 3rd quarter against the cats and the last quarter against the dees where we peppered the goals, albeit ultimately without success. essendon, who I reckon have a less talented list than us at the moment, are getting better results because they don't retreat to chipping around when a couple of kicks miss the mark. We need to bring back that style, bring back Terry's Triangle at times to mix things up in the forward line as we we bring the ball in with speed.

But the siren call of the mermaid premiers dragged plough off course onto the rocks. Too busy chasing trends to follow his own plan. Sadly now he is looking and sounding like a defeated coach, out of ideas. The saddest part is that he doesn't need new ideas, he just needs to remember his old ones. 16 goal a game footy.

 

[Crumden]

That player without a development coach until his 3rd year on the list that Pickering mentioned is JON by the way.

Doesn't surprise me Barnzy. He was probably the next one to come to mind after Meyer, though probably not an isolated case.

Bojangles, don't know who the 31 are either. Coaches, assistant coaches, probably includes shrinks, physios and all sorts. The main point is that Richmond are putting half as much resources into player development as the richer clubs. Which brings me to another theory I have. Wallace is from footscray, Royal from footscray and melbourne, Campbell from Richmond and footscray, Rawlings most recently from the kangaroos and footscray, Cameron from melbourne. Nearly all our main coaching and development staff are from the pauper clubs. In business when you're headhunting you go for people that can bring you best practice as well as their own skill. We should be targeting people from Collingwood, West Coast, Geelong and some of those richer and succesful clubs who can bring some of that best practice development thinking with them.

Or maybe its a catch 22 - we need them to improve but we can't get them until we do.

 

[Bojangles17]

Re: 16 goal a game footy

On plough, might as well give my thoughts here.

When Wallace arrived at the club he was talking about getting the team to play attacking footy and kicking 16 goals a game. He didn't have the cattle originally but started to get it together. Weaver had a post on a thread that is now locked that explained the plan pretty well (even if some parts of that post have proven wrong, the general thrust of what the plan was was right)- http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4902872&postcount=68. I think the plan itself was ok, but Plough's problem is that he is too easily seduced by premiership sides.

First it was sydney, which didn't work out too bad for us. Looking at their stoppage play filled a major weakness with our team. We went from being one of the worst teams around the stoppages to one of the better teams at winning clearances. But then came geelong's possession game and Hawthorns zone. But we don't have the silky skills of an Ablett-Bartel-Corey-Ling centre combination that makes geelongs high possession game work, and we don't have the twin towers up forward that make hawthorns structure work. And we seemed to be attracted to hawthorns hardnuts, overlooking that they primarily target blokes that can kick.(give me Meyer over Hislop anytime). We strayed towards one pace players instead of the speedsters we were meant to be building around .

What we should be doing is to take risks and move the ball forward as quickly as possible. I saw Essendon playing that way last week. They turned the ball over repeatedly but stuck with the plan against hawthorn and as it turned their way the confidence kicked in. That's the type of game Wallace brought to our club. The game we still see flashes of, like the 8 goal 3rd quarter against the cats and the last quarter against the dees where we peppered the goals, albeit ultimately without success. essendon, who I reckon have a less talented list than us at the moment, are getting better results because they don't retreat to chipping around when a couple of kicks miss the mark. We need to bring back that style, bring back Terry's Triangle at times to mix things up in the forward line as we we bring the ball in with speed.

But the siren call of the mermaid premiers dragged plough off course onto the rocks. Too busy chasing trends to follow his own plan. Sadly now he is looking and sounding like a defeated coach, out of ideas. The saddest part is that he doesn't need new ideas, he just needs to remember his old ones. 16 goal a game footy.

top post crum, one basic that TW neglects in this flip flop of game plan is playing to our strengths, it's the archilles of poor sides trying to adapt to a style that they dont have the cattle. swans are a great example of developing a winning gameplan around the avaialble resource...you cant tell me they have a top 8 list , yet make the finals yr on yr

 

[Mario Speedwagon]

That player without a development coach until his 3rd year on the list that Pickering mentioned is JON by the way.

Which of course wouldn't have any effect on his progress whatsoever...

Yep we just draft shit kids all the time.... that must be it. Simple really.

 

[deliberate!!]

Is like blaming George Bush for the Republican administration.
Sack the whole board and let the supporters take over!!! Revolution!!!

Lol jokes,

Anyway what I mean is that the coach is just the tip of the ice berg and I think the Richmond football club more than any other club knows that sacking coaches isn't always the answer. Cos its worked for us in the past right?

I half want terry to stay on. We haven't been playing terrible footy. We just need to get rid of the deadweight and recruit some fowards and bigger players.

No, It's like blaming George Bush for letting his country drag the world into recession.
It's like blaming George Bush for telling us Saddam had weapons of mass destruction.
It's like Nixon saying he had nothing to do with Watergate.

Why was there a **** up in communication about icebergs with staff on the Titanic, yet the Captain decided to go down with the ship. Because he was the final person in the highest position of power directing, ordering the crew.
His team might have failed him, but he had to wear the consequences.

How long will it take for you guys to realise that the figurehead, leader, Boss, Coach HAS to wear everything? Otherwise DON'T HAVE A COACH!! Think about it....tick, tick.

And I already see fools in this thread have brought up the tired old 'Bomber Thompson' theory of keeping Terry forever. If that's the case we should have hung on to Spud and not even appointed TW. Would you have liked that too?
You ****ing hypocrites.

We need a list of all the TW supporters here.
Cause they have no ****ing idea of the failures of TW.
We may have been in a mess before TW.
But TW spent 4 years creating his own mess.
And as FACTS & RESULTS point out...TW is a worse Coach than Spud. And Spud had his own problems.

TW is gone soon, go support him somewhere else. He took our money and played his pets, neglected our skills, drafted short people with pea hearts, spun so much BS that there's still fools here who refuse to admit that he is to blame...not the players who he never disciplined, not the players he allowed to cheat, not the players he allowed to play soft football, not that tempo crap he allowed to run rampant like a disease, not the players he confused by dropping them after many failures only to bring them back after 1 good game in the Burgers.

We have played terrible football under Wallace.
You don't know good football if you think we haven't played terrible football.
Cheating, sly, cheap soft football.
All other teams know we are soft.
All other teams know that when we fall back into cheating habits, TW does nothing about it.

Terry's the reason we have lazy forwards, short people everywhere, and a backline that thinks that a possession that helps the team is a kick 15 metres backwards or a handball to a player a foot away.

BS thread....same old 'blame shifting'.
Can't wait for all the sympathy threads by the same dudes when TW is given the bullet.
sob...sob...sob

 

[ata40]

Re: 16 goal a game footy

On plough, might as well give my thoughts here.

When Wallace arrived at the club he was talking about getting the team to play attacking footy and kicking 16 goals a game. He didn't have the cattle originally but started to get it together. Weaver had a post on a thread that is now locked that explained the plan pretty well (even if some parts of that post have proven wrong, the general thrust of what the plan was was right)- http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4902872&postcount=68. I think the plan itself was ok, but Plough's problem is that he is too easily seduced by premiership sides.

First it was sydney, which didn't work out too bad for us. Looking at their stoppage play filled a major weakness with our team. We went from being one of the worst teams around the stoppages to one of the better teams at winning clearances. But then came geelong's possession game and Hawthorns zone. But we don't have the silky skills of an Ablett-Bartel-Corey-Ling centre combination that makes geelongs high possession game work, and we don't have the twin towers up forward that make hawthorns structure work. And we seemed to be attracted to hawthorns hardnuts, overlooking that they primarily target blokes that can kick.(give me Meyer over Hislop anytime). We strayed towards one pace players instead of the speedsters we were meant to be building around .

What we should be doing is to take risks and move the ball forward as quickly as possible. I saw Essendon playing that way last week. They turned the ball over repeatedly but stuck with the plan against hawthorn and as it turned their way the confidence kicked in. That's the type of game Wallace brought to our club. The game we still see flashes of, like the 8 goal 3rd quarter against the cats and the last quarter against the dees where we peppered the goals, albeit ultimately without success. essendon, who I reckon have a less talented list than us at the moment, are getting better results because they don't retreat to chipping around when a couple of kicks miss the mark. We need to bring back that style, bring back Terry's Triangle at times to mix things up in the forward line as we we bring the ball in with speed.

But the siren call of the mermaid premiers dragged plough off course onto the rocks. Too busy chasing trends to follow his own plan. Sadly now he is looking and sounding like a defeated coach, out of ideas. The saddest part is that he doesn't need new ideas, he just needs to remember his old ones. 16 goal a game footy.

Great analysis Crumden.

 

[True Thylacine]

Two posts of genuine quality reading Crum and an excellent assessment. Good to see you back mate!