Religion Bondi shooting - 16 confirmed dead at Jewish event

[RubyLovesTheDees]

Are Jewish people special? I've seen a shit load more racism and homophobia in this country than I've ever seen anti semitism, do we get guns too?

15 Jewish people were just gunned down, hence the urgent need for protection.

Let's give everyone guns to "protect" themselves, then nothing bad will happen.

Again, 15 Jews were just gunned down.

 

[RubyLovesTheDees]

After some sensible posting for a while... your true colours have come out, three days before Christmas. Baby Jesus will be mad.

Your claim that “Palestinians want Israel and all Jews wiped out” is ****ing gross. Most of the casualties in Gaza are women and children, because most of Gaza is... women and children. Independent estimates indicating around 20,000 children killed.

GAZA: 20,000 CHILDREN KILLED IN 23 MONTHS OF WAR - MORE THAN ONE CHILD KILLED EVERY HOUR

At least one Palestinian child has been killed every hour on average by Israeli forces in Gaza over nearly 23 months of war, with the number of children killed now surpassing 20,000, Save the Children said.

www.savethechildren.net

At least one Palestinian child has been killed every hour on average by Israeli forces in Gaza over nearly 23 months of war, with the number of children killed now surpassing 20,000, Save the Children said.



Statements that imply an entire civilian population deserves harm... ESPECIALLY when that population includes disproportionately affected groups like children... Is the kind of thing that will come under scrutiny when hate speech laws are implemented in the future.

Dogs_R_Us I'd be careful with continuing this rhetoric and dehumanisation of a group of people, particularly when that group of people is mainly women and children. Your comments could land you in a lot of hot water.

Have you ever blamed hamas for anything?

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Your claim that “Palestinians want Israel and all Jews wiped out” is ****ing gross. Most of the casualties in Gaza are women and children, because most of Gaza is... women and children. Independent estimates indicating around 20,000 children killed.

You are correct. I was imprecise in my language and I apologise. It's the Muslim Brotherhood and its extremist offshoots such as Hamas that want Israel and Jews wiped out. I'm sure the Palestinians they are hiding amongst do not want them there, but what can they do? How can they get rid of them? How can Islamic extremism across the world best be dealt with?

 

[ferball]

It isn't a rant, that is your incorrect and immediate reaction.

And? I don't see anything wrong with this. It is not unreasonable to expect consequence and by extension deterrence (jn an attempt to avoid future incidents), for anti social and or life threatening behaviour

The consequences for the life threatening behaviour those ****wits engaged in at Bondi were one of them got shot and killed the other got shot and should spend their life in prison. If there was evidence they were planning it then it should have been acted on because we have laws that enable that sort oof thing. Laws that actually undermine what are assumed to be democratic freedoms.

Then you've misinterpreted

I don't know the answer, all I know is that someone who allegedly is known as an isis sympathizer shouldn't have access to firearms.

If that means then Dad shouldn't, then so be it.

Fair enough on the face of it but everyone has access to illegal firearms if they want to go looking. Provided they have the money. There are mechanisms in place that should have enabled the NSW government to limit access to Sajid Akram's weapons. They just weren't used.

I know the counter argument would be 'well that's not democratic' and 'slippery slope' etc., well it isn't but if it something like this was in place before this incident then 15 lives would be saved. I'd be happy to sacirifice a bit of democracy to save those lives.

My nan's brother fought at Gallipoli and was killed in France over 100 years ago. Would you sacrifice a bit of democracy to save his life? There's a war memorial down the road with a bunch of my relo's and a heap of other people's names on it. What about them?

Point is, as much as I'm a staunch liberal democratic, there still need to be social elements to maintain that liberal democracy. Like consequences and by extension deterrence to avoid future incidents like this.

I'm not all over it, however it has been stated in here that there are laws that recognise that sympathizing with terrorist organizations like isis should be a red flag and has been alluded that those laws are meant to prevent such incidents but haven't been applied.

I think it might've been Festerz who mentioned them?

If that is true, then how did this incident happen? Was the law and punishment (deterrent) not applied? If so why not? Not a question for you obviously unless you know the answers.

If you think this is an unreasonable position, please advise on what your solution is / ideas are.

I agree with you.

We were told when these laws came in that they would protect us. That failure is on ASIO, the AFP and the NSW cops. They had the legal tools to prevent this and they didn't.

There is a social media comment in the last few pages from a guy in the Muslim community naming a hate preacher associated with the two terrorists from Bondi. They claim that the Muslim community has been calling for the NSW cops to shut him down for years and they haven't because the cops reckon they can gain valuable intel watching him.

That didn't work out very well did it.

We don't know enough as the general public right now but on the face of it it seems a massive failure by ASIO and law enforcement and heads should roll for it, probably at the top of those organisations.

 

[RCAB]

Makes even less sense when you try to use it elsewhere;

'The Holocaust was bad'

'Do you remember it?'

I laughed at that for a second and then realised how sad all this is..

There's certainly elements of idiocracy and cognitive dissonance in all this. Holocaust denial is a real thing, purely because I think most people spend less time reading and more time engaging only in soundbites and headlines.

 

[ferball]

The fact that you believe this is cringe, and explains a lot.

The far left are the most bigoted people on the planet.

Why would I take any notice of anything you say. You're an idiot.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Why would I take any notice of anything you say. You're an idiot.

 

[schneebly111]

Can the mods please suspend this thread? It’s no longer serving any useful purpose.

It’s 3 days before Christmas, the sun is shining and there’s a real world outside of your phones where honestly this level of bickering and hate doesn’t exist.

Get outside and actually talk to others and you’ll realise that the world isn’t as bad as social media makes it out to be.

 

[Markfs]

You are correct. I was imprecise in my language and I apologise. It's the Muslim Brotherhood and its extremist offshoots such as Hamas that want Israel and Jews wiped out. I'm sure the Palestinians they are hiding amongst do not want them there, but what can they do? How can they get rid of them? How can Islamic extremism across the world best be dealt with?

you're right. the israelis have no choice other than starve women and children. Otherwise the condos dont get built

 

[FlowersByIrene]

You are correct. I was imprecise in my language and I apologise. It's the Muslim Brotherhood and its extremist offshoots such as Hamas that want Israel and Jews wiped out. I'm sure the Palestinians they are hiding amongst do not want them there, but what can they do? How can they get rid of them? How can Islamic extremism across the world best be dealt with?

Not sure about this. The fat that Hamas were elected, footage of Palestinians celebrated post October 7 and various other instances do not necessarily align with this point. Not that that is necessarily unexpected, the communities are at war - but I don't think it's accurate to say that Palestinians exclusively do not want Hamas there.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Can the mods please suspend this thread? It’s no longer serving any useful purpose.

It’s 3 days before Christmas, the sun is shining and there’s a real world outside of your phones where honestly this level of bickering and hate doesn’t exist.

Get outside and actually talk to others and you’ll realise that the world isn’t as bad as social media makes it out to be.

"Can we stop talking about how every tenet of my political belief has failed and led to the degradation of Australian society. Can we go outside and talk to people who haven't yet realised that everything I stand for has destroyed Australian lives and continues to do so".

Yeah, would be nice for some.

 

[ferball]

It looks like you need to fix the upholstery on your chair.

On the corner there....

 

[Bloods86]

Palestinians don’t want a two state solution. They’ve been offered it many times. They want Israel and all Jews wiped out. That’s all they want.

So you’re agreeing that being anti Israel is antisemitism.

This is a moronic perspective.

 

[faible]

This is a moronic perspective.

It's a lie, he's been pulled up on it already and walked it back.

 

[Seeds]

This the same clown that failed to stop the attack last week? He's obviously full of shit.

Ecofascists are by defintion not far left.

The far left has always promoted solidarity with coloured people, working people and colonised people across the world. Those campaigners don't. They promote genocide against non white people so they can thieve their resources as the world runs out of stuff.

Its one element of so called "horseshoe theory" that is bullshit because the far right and far left don't converge at that point, they diverge.

Horseshoe theory has never suggested the far right and left are working to cheerlead/support for the same people. Where did you get that from? You have completely misunderstood it.

Horsehsoe theory says the far left and right use the same means and ideology to support different groups of people. I.e. they both adopt authoritarian approaches, us vs them mentalities, strong central control, adopt faith based unquestionable moral taboos that must be punished when broken regardless of context or evidence, believe in different rights for people based on race/sex etc.

 

[Bloods86]

The fact you want to ban me proves my point.

Stop pretending like you're some freedom of speech proponent or anti-bigotry figure, and not the elitist clown we all know.

You want to stop people from voting if they don't pay enough tax, which could be because of disability, illness, unpaid work or study etc.

 

[faible]

Gethelred right now

 

[Seeds]

For the older posters who remember, did john howard cop the same blood on your hands garbage as Albanese after the Port Arthur massacre?

 

[faible]

You want to stop people from voting

He wants this in general, doesn't believe in democracy.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

He wants this in general, doesn't believe in democracy.

He wants a Philosopher to help out with critical thinking.

 

[Bloods86]

He wants this in general, doesn't believe in democracy.

Yeah I know, he pines for a King daddy to dictate over him, but in the context of bigotry (the particular conversation), supports removal of speech due to bigotry in some cases in our current system.

 

[ferball]

Horseshoe theory has never suggested the far right and left are working to cheerlead/support for the same people. Where did you get that from? You have completely misunderstood it.

Horsehsoe theory says the far left and right use the same means and ideology to support different groups of people. I.e. they both adopt authoritarian approaches, us vs them mentalities, strong central control, adopt faith based unquestionable moral taboos that must be punished when broken regardless of context or evidence, believe in different rights for people based on race/sex etc.

Yes and this bolded bit is flat out wrong. Which is what I was saying.

Anyway its a stupid theory based on a one dimensional understanding of politics that trying hard to be two dimensional. Like all simplistic ideas it still doesn't really go anywhere toward explaining the complexity of what people actually think.

 

[Sphynx]

Based on the suppression order just lifted.

It’s a miracle the death count wasn’t much higher.

He lobbed 2 pipe bombs into the crowd before opening fire, both filled with ball bearings, both failed to detonate.

He also had a tennis ball bomb on him and a large IED in the boot of the car that by the looks of it would have leveled that car park.

 

[ferball]

Stop pretending like you're some freedom of speech proponent or anti-bigotry figure, and not the elitist clown we all know.

You want to stop people from voting if they don't pay enough tax, which could be because of disability, illness, unpaid work or study etc.

Seriously?

I guess that could work tho. It would probably stop billionaires from voting.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Stop pretending like you're some freedom of speech proponent or anti-bigotry figure, and not the elitist clown we all know.

You want to stop people from voting if they don't pay enough tax, which could be because of disability, illness, unpaid work or study etc.

Out of context. What I want is the best people voting, making the best decisions for everyone, taking away from the tyranny of the majority, from mob rule by the least educated and least intelligent amongst us, those who think Albanese is doing a good job, or that think fundamentalist Islam is just another social status to be "accepted" like being homosexual or singing along to Disney songs in the cinema, people who think that there should be political advantages based on the colour of your skin, or who think that Australian emissions have an impact on the global environment. I want what is best for people with disability, illness and those who are studying, volunteering or doing unpaid work. And it's become evident that the current system is not set up to achieve that.