Brad Hill Megathread

[Noel Gallagher]

Hey, mate.
We've won the last 3 premierships, we're currently on top of the ladder having fought our way up from outside the 8, we've just had a great win against a difficult opponent, we are blooding some great young players and we're watching one of the greatest teams of all time: it's such a great time to be a Hawthorn supporter.

And you're spraying vitriol.

What a strange world we live in.

"Spraying vitriol"? - are you serious ??? Just saying that Hills off field indiscretions are clearly effecting his form on field, which affects the team. Every time he doesn't go when it's his turn or does his pansy tap ons means that the other players must worker harder and cover his lack of contested ball effort. He simply cannot play against the swans, will be a liability which we don't need. He needs to sort out his personal life, go back to box hill and work out if he wants to stay at this club and commit, or go back home to WA. That's not vitriol, that's simply stating facts whether you like it or not.

 

[Gralin]

"Spraying vitriol"? - are you serious ??? Just saying that Hills off field indiscretions are clearly effecting his form on field, which affects the team. Every time he doesn't go when it's his turn or does his pansy tap ons means that the other players must worker harder and cover his lack of contested ball effort. He simply cannot play against the swans, will be a liability which we don't need. He needs to sort out his personal life, go back to box hill and work out if he wants to stay at this club and commit, or go back home to WA. That's not vitriol, that's simply stating facts whether you like it or not.

No it's opinion not fact. The facts are since Round one 2013 hill has only missed through injury, he's been picked for every game he has been fit.
He was in the bottom half of B&F votes so I'm not suggesting he's a top 10 player but he is comfortably best 22 based on history.
That's not to say he couldn't find those circumstances change this year but he's been played through poor patches before which suggests either he's meeting enough KPIs, there isn't anyone else able to push him out or the coaches believe senior footy is the only fix for him and are prepared to deal with he ups and downs in hope he comes good for finals.

As we are on the outside we don't know if any of the above is true, that's just my view of how it works

 

[Noel Gallagher]

No it's opinion not fact. The facts are since Round one 2013 hill has only missed through injury, he's been picked for every game he has been fit.
He was in the bottom half of B&F votes so I'm not suggesting he's a top 10 player but he is comfortably best 22 based on history.
That's not to say he couldn't find those circumstances change this year but he's been played through poor patches before which suggests either he's meeting enough KPIs, there isn't anyone else able to push him out or the coaches believe senior footy is the only fix for him and are prepared to deal with he ups and downs in hope he comes good for finals.

As we are on the outside we don't know if any of the above is true, that's just my view of how it works

Sorry but brad hill playing poorly this year is fact not opinion. Slice it dice it anyway you like but it's true. The only reason he hasn't been dropped is because we don't have a similar type player to readily replace him with.

 

[Gralin]

Sorry but brad hill playing poorly this year is fact not opinion. Slice it dice it anyway you like but it's true. The only reason he hasn't been dropped is because we don't have a similar type player to readily replace him with.

You listed his pansy tap ons as a negative his team mates have to cover, were you watching Thursday, over half the team does it, it's obviously game plan, except when Brad does it
You said he simply can't play against the swans, that he need to sort out his personal life and go back to box hill to decide whether he wants to play for Hawthorn, all opinion from the outside that you called facts.
Yes he's had issues outside of footy this year, the last known incident occurring in January do how do you know he hasn't dealt with his personal stuff now that his court appearances are done?
Lots of rumors floating around about Hill going home but at this stage that's what they are rumors, not facts.
When the coaches pick him again this week what does that say about your facts that he needs to be dropped?
What should the club do if they need Brad in the team because he is the best option for how they want to play?

 

[Randy Campbell]

Runs but doesn't do much else at the moment.

But how much does the run, do for everyone else?

The most important part of being a great kicking team is to have someone to kick to.

His running through zones causes the zone to react and move to him, which creates space for a leading player.

Who do you measure, how much importance this role has on the teams kicking accuracy.

 

[Jason Dunstall]

There's lack of desire, intent, aggression, endeavour and willingness which are the real areas of concern for Hill and this
shows up in his competitive play e.g. tackling.
Its got nothing to do with how your built.

Exactly!
And it's unlikely to change.
So the club will make the decision on whether or not this is what they want in the side.
At the moment it seems the answer is he's in the side.

 

[Brant]

Yes that was great of him, he needs to do it more often when put in that position

I wouldn't be placing these expectations on him if I wasn't speaking from experience. I was always a lightly built footballer in my playing days but it didn't matter how big you were I would always stick the tackle and take you down. You need to admit Hills tackling in particular his technique is not up to standard.

Look I'm a massive Hill fan for what he offers the team, we need a good mix of outside and inside mids that's just obvious. Hill has great talent and potential it would be a shame to not see him reach it

If he's 5 years into his career & we've not tried to teach him to tackle then surely you'd have to concede that he's under instruction to pester / corral / interrupt rather than maim/kill?

If a guy like Hill starts to effectively tackle, it means that 90+kg bodies start to hit his 75kg frame. How well do you think he'll run out games if he starts tackling with his body?

Tackling requires intense application of force - it's counter to how his body & his endurance work. If he starts committing his body to contests then he'll stop getting to the amount of contests that he gets to & he'll stop covering the ground that he covers; &, he'll start needing rests on the bench instead of at the HFF. We have limited interchanges now - Smitty, Billy & Hill allows our older, slower players to rest on the bench meaning that they don't become liabilities as they slow down. We are one unit - not a collection of individual parts. Everything we do works in unison - we simply can't tweak one cog without impacting the machine in other ways.

I really think we need to forget about him adding a defensive edge to his game - if he was going to do so, we'd have seen it or we'd have seen him dropped to Box Hill.

 

[Noel Gallagher]

You listed his pansy tap ons as a negative his team mates have to cover, were you watching Thursday, over half the team does it, it's obviously game plan, except when Brad does it
You said he simply can't play against the swans, that he need to sort out his personal life and go back to box hill to decide whether he wants to play for Hawthorn, all opinion from the outside that you called facts.
Yes he's had issues outside of footy this year, the last known incident occurring in January do how do you know he hasn't dealt with his personal stuff now that his court appearances are done?
Lots of rumors floating around about Hill going home but at this stage that's what they are rumors, not facts.
When the coaches pick him again this week what does that say about your facts that he needs to be dropped?
What should the club do if they need Brad in the team because he is the best option for how they want to play?

Hill is having a poor year - fact
Hill has had several indiscretions with the law in past 12 mths - driving whilst suspended - interviewed/fined for unlawful assault - fact
Off field discretion effecting his on field firm most likely
Well down on his 13/14/15 seasons form - fact

 

[Gralin]

Hill is having a poor year - fact
Hill has had several indiscretions with the law in past 12 mths - driving whilst suspended - interviewed/fined for unlawful assault - fact
Off field discretion effecting his on field firm most likely
Well down on his 13/14/15 seasons form - fact

Yeah I can see we are just going round in circles here, I've never said he isn't down on form just that you are passing a lot of personal opinion and guesswork as facts and talking like Hill being dropped is the only sane option
I expect him to be picked to play against the swans followed by much angst on here.

 

[Noel Gallagher]

Yeah I can see we are just going round in circles here, I've never said he isn't down on form just that you are passing a lot of personal opinion and guesswork as facts and talking like Hill being dropped is the only sane option
I expect him to be picked to play against the swans followed by much angst on here.

My facts are pretty rock solid. My opinion is that you are probably right he will play this week. Know this though, he will play against swans and have zero impact at the scg. Swans will probably win. If hill gets more than 15 possessions I will eat my hat - book mark this

 

[TheFourPillars]

My facts are pretty rock solid. My opinion is that you are probably right he will play this week. Know this though, he will play against swans and have zero impact at the scg. Swans will probably win. If hill gets more than 15 possessions I will eat my hat - book mark this

Stakes are not high enough for hill mate. He only plays well when there is something substantial on the line .

 

[seysearles]

Brad Hill would not dominate in the weaker league. Would suddenly rack up 30.... And lay 10 bone crunching tackles. It's not his gig. There are some players who go back and knock the door down to come back. Not Hill. He is genuinely in my opinion a player who plays a role.

The point i am making is that the downside of sending Hill to Box Hill (even sounds good doesn't it?) is minimal whereas the upside to getting some games into Litherland pre-finals is great. I also like the sound of trying Gus on the wing against a team like Sydney which isn't that zippy and has mids that need attention. Regarding Hill not being a bash and crash player, i think you will find most people acknowledge that, however he is definitely committing to contests less this season than in previous years. He needs to rediscover that, one way or another, if he is going to avoid the criticism and be a walk up start to this team.

 

[badgrill]

Sorry but brad hill playing poorly this year is fact not opinion. Slice it dice it anyway you like but it's true. The only reason he hasn't been dropped is because we don't have a similar type player to readily replace him with.

But you want him dropped anyway?

 

[MrPremiership]

Clarkson is the best coach of his generation, and a mainstay of his team has been Hill.

Hill hasn't missed games over the last few years for being dropped, he has only missed due to being injured.

Think about that for a minute. BHH have played in 3 GFs in that time, so there are plenty of talented kids who haven't got games ahead of him, so Hill must be doing something right.

I see that as Hill is doing exactly whatever Clarko and the coaches are asking of him.

Yeah, there are things Hill does that frustrate me, and I'd like to see him stick a couple of more tackles. But, I'd say Clarko is a better coach than anyone on this forum, so I'd say Hill is doing enough to be on our list and not traded. I'd suggest Clarko rates his running patterns are more important that 3 or 4 tackles per game (that probably wouldn't really change much, an extra stoppage or so).

 

[Hong Kong Hawk]

Yeah I can see we are just going round in circles here, I've never said he isn't down on form just that you are passing a lot of personal opinion and guesswork as facts and talking like Hill being dropped is the only sane option
I expect him to be picked to play against the swans followed by much angst on here.

I guess until Hill becomes Cyril many in here will not be happy. I'd encourage some on here to watch his past 3 games. He is being coached to run from behind the forming stoppage to the front in order to collect the extraction. This is a function of an increased focus on contested ball.

This puts him out of position sometimes - looks awkward etc. He will be picked this week and for the rest of the season. And watch what happens when he gets out more often in these scenarios.

 

[flinchfree]

I expect him to be picked to play against the swans followed by much angst on here.

Fair enough. That would make him un-droppable because of form.
Nice gig if you can get it.

 

[LuckyHawk]

If Hill can get around 20 possessions per game and show a bit of dash then I'm happy.
Its not too much to ask of a mid fielder - inside or out.
I fear he's getting a game based on potential more than anything else.

 

[Gralin]

If Hill can get around 20 possessions per game and show a bit of dash then I'm happy.
Its not too much to ask of a mid fielder - inside or out.
I fear he's getting a game based on potential more than anything else.

20 is above his career average, Smith has only ticked over that mark himself.
Not sure Brad has an average of 20 in him with his role.
I also think that role has changed this year, along with our game plan. There has been a lot more sideways and backwards movement from the team in the first half of the year.

Fair enough. That would make him un-droppable because of form.
Nice gig if you can get it.

I don't think he's unstoppable, I just don't think the reasons others have come up with for him to be dropped are valid for him. His role in the team, what the coaches expect and will put up with, how much pressure others can put on his position through their form and ability to play his role.

 

[cryptor]

20 touches would be nice but he doesn't necessarily need them to do his job. In fact he could potentially play a major component of his role as Clarko dictates it while not getting a single stat for the entire game.

As long as he is constantly running up, down and across the field then he is creating space for his teammates to lead and kick into by forcing opposition defenders to peel off to cover him which - particularly against less experienced sides - messes up their zone formations or whatever non-man-on-man defensice structure they use. There is no stat for unrewarded running. But the coaches and his teammates see the efforts involved though and even have access to GPS data which we fans do not.

In reality a statless game where he still played his role well is probably unlikely to occur given if he does that much running for a whole game chances are he will be used as an option eventually. But it does highlight that player performances at Hawthorn can't always be measured by what is on the stats sheet.

 

[The Kipster]

Hill is having a poor year - fact
Hill has had several indiscretions with the law in past 12 mths - driving whilst suspended - interviewed/fined for unlawful assault - fact
Off field discretion effecting his on field firm most likely
Well down on his 13/14/15 seasons form - fact

Not necessarily true, he had a form slump a couple of years ago and Crawf mentored him I believe, therefore he is a confidence player in many ways

 

[TheFourPillars]

I watched the game again and i don't think Hill was that bad as people are claiming here

 

[Noel Gallagher]

I watched the game again and i don't think Hill was that bad as people are claiming here

Really? he had 9 possessions and ran scared all night but you think that it wasn't that bad? FMD I have heard it all now....

 

[TheFourPillars]

Really? he had 9 possessions and ran scared all night but you think that it wasn't that bad? FMD I have heard it all now....

It certainly wasn't as bad as you've been portraying it. The worst player ever?

 

[Noel Gallagher]

It certainly wasn't as bad as you've been portraying it. The worst player ever?

Pull your head in where exactly did I say worst player ever? He had a shocker and you are saying that he wasn't that bad. He has been poor all year at suppose you think that he hasn't been bad all year either?

 

[TheFourPillars]

Pull your head in where exactly did I say worst player ever? He had a shocker and you are saying that he wasn't that bad. He has been poor all year at suppose you think that he hasn't been bad all year either?

Ok what have i got myself into here . Everything is not at its seems. I don't think you will get anyone saying that brad hill is playing his best football this year but he is fulfilling his role. Otherwise he would be out of the team