"Bravery"?

[Billy Hunt]

Hey Billy, how would you feel if you knew Macca supported the guernsey change?

Most players, past and present support the guernsey change, a lot of supporters support the guernsey change. Some supporter don't like blow ins treating their footy club like a public corporation.

Now back to Macca and your obsession that he white anted the coach.
Macca tells someone very close to him that the coach said: "I don't rate you, I have never rated you, you have played your last game for this club" That person was very pissed off and tells his mate who told his mate and it made it's way onto dockerland. If that is white anting the coach, so be it. Peter Bell approached the board one more than one occasion to express his concerns about the direction the club was going, is he a white ant too?

Your still a goose Clay.

 

[yakamoto]

I don't think anyone's claiming any connection between Macca and the second coming Clay. It is just possible that being brave and having a liking for chevrons are mutually exclusive propositions although I do have my doubts.

 

[Scham]

I'm suggesting the love and praise he got from so many fans for being 'brave' was over the top. He didn't get the hard ball, he didn't do the hard things. He seagulled just as much as Des Headland, yet because he was part of the club from the beginning, people felt he was somehow tough. He held on to his career for three seasons too long.

Getting cleaned up by Wirrpanda was the only thing he did that was brave, and that was probably because he had no awareness.

By geez I've read some crap on this site over the years...I mean I've REALLY read some crap, but I reckon this just about takes the cake! What a load of bulls..t.

 

[Freo4life]

Tl/dr-would you rather a team of DeBoers or Johnsons*
I don't think i need to answer that..

*Speaking only in terms of courage and endeavor, not skill.

 

[Clay Davis]

Now back to Macca and your obsession that he white anted the coach.
Macca tells someone very close to him that the coach said: "I don't rate you, I have never rated you, you have played your last game for this club" That person was very pissed off and tells his mate who told his mate and it made it's way onto dockerland. If that is white anting the coach, so be it. Peter Bell approached the board one more than one occasion to express his concerns about the direction the club was going, is he a white ant too?

Billy, that is the definition of a white ant. The year of 2003-2004 was our best stretch of performances in our history, up until probably now. Connolly may have repeated the same list management mistakes over and over again in his tenure, but he remains our most successful coach. Why a player like McManus, who until that point had only played in failed football teams, thought it right to start whiteanting with Bell against the coach, is amazing. I would hardly call such a person 'a brave soldier'.

Every other coach in the league would have told McManus they didn't rate him.

 

[Billy Hunt]

Your not going to let this go are you Clay.

You have made a goose of your self and you still continue to dig your self in but because of your age, I forgive you.

From the beginning, we have only had 2 coach's. Between 1998 - 2007 the players were in total control.

 

[Clay Davis]

Neesham was a bad coach too, Bill.

 

[yakamoto]

In what way(s) was Neesham a bad coach Clay? Some specifics please.

 

[Clay Davis]

Delisting Bell. Trading Abraham for Stuart Anderson.

 

[yakamoto]

And............

 

[Clay Davis]

And............

I'd list the multitude of others (like the Ben Edwards mistake), but Billy would ride in and excuse him as being hamstrung by the WAFC/AFL. For those two, he can't.

 

[Kram]

And............

Not putting a decent tag on Nathan Buckley?

 

[yakamoto]

In my view being involved in some poor drafting/trading choices is not synonymous with being a bad coach. If it were every AFL coach would be deemed as being bad. In any case these generally only become poor choices when viewed through that most powerful of optical instruments, the retrospectoscope.
Peter Bell was , I believe, delisted because of a perceived lack of pace which did not fit in withe game plan of the coach. His delisting at that time was in part vindicated when he later returned to Fremantle and became a member of the slow dwarves.
At the time Winston was traded we were getting zilch out of him on a regular basis. Granted we got less than zilch from Anderson.

 

[Clay Davis]

In my view being involved in some poor drafting/trading choices is not synonymous with being a bad coach. If it were every AFL coach would be deemed as being bad. In any case these generally only become poor choices when viewed through that most powerful of optical instruments, the retrospectoscope.
Peter Bell was , I believe, delisted because of a perceived lack of pace which did not fit in withe game plan of the coach. His delisting at that time was in part vindicated when he later returned to Fremantle and became a member of the slow dwarves.
At the time Winston was traded we were getting zilch out of him on a regular basis. Granted we got less than zilch from Anderson.

But there was more than just that. Bell kicked 2 goals in his first game and got dropped. Abraham was one of our best goal kickers while with us and was dropped often.

Let's not forget, we only had to win round 22 against the wooden spooners in 1997 to make the finals, and we got thumped.

'Great' coach.

 

[theGav56]

Getting cleaned up by Wirrpanda was the only thing he did that was brave, and that was probably because he had no awareness.

If he is dropped for a game and then proceeds to whiteant the coach during the season because of it, what is that called? Bravery? Amazing definition you have there, Gav.

Hey Billy, how would you feel if you knew Macca supported the guernsey change?

More cowardly posting, trying to slithrer away from your proclamation that the clash with Wirra was the "only" brave thing he did to equating "whiteanting"* to lacking bravery. That it is possible to do both is clear to a blind-man. and we see some of the bravest players occassionally duck the head or hold back. Then oozing your way into implying that someone supporting a guernsey change has any place in a thread about a players bravery is absolutely beneath low and lacking relevance.

Suggesting that anyone who plays elite level sport for a decade doesn't exhibit bravery is contemptible babble.

Your posts reek of the posts of somebody who has never had to actually show bravery and instead haunts an internet forum condemning those who have demonstrated it. Pathetic drool.

* whiteanting being roughly 50% of the content of your posts, this thread the classic example.

 

[Nickos66]

In what way(s) was Neesham a bad coach Clay? Some specifics please.

How long's a piece of string?

He was a shocker but all we can do is comment on all the little things that contributes to the notion that he was a shocker.

One that springs to mind for me was burning our 1st rd draft pick on a local guy in our 1st year when he could've been claimed under our zone concessions. The player was subsequently delisted before the pre-season was over.. Our 1st rd pick.

This typified his approach to our recruiting for our inaugural season.

 

[Clay Davis]

More cowardly posting, trying to slithrer away from your proclamation that the clash with Wirra was the "only" brave thing he did to equating "whiteanting"* to lacking bravery.

What's brave about taking a hit on the footy field? Almost every person who has played competitive football has done it. Few have been lauded for it as much as McManus.

That it is possible to do both is clear to a blind-man. and we see some of the bravest players occassionally duck the head or hold back.

I said he was anything but a brave soldier. I have a mate in Afghanistan. That is a brave soldier. McManus took a couple of hits. Big deal. He seagulled for most of his career around packs. Brave soldier? Bullshit.

Then oozing your way into implying that someone supporting a guernsey change has any place in a thread about a players bravery is absolutely beneath low and lacking relevance.

It was a joke.

Suggesting that anyone who plays elite level sport for a decade doesn't exhibit bravery is contemptible babble.

Then my essential premise remains. McManus was as brave as Des Headland.

Your posts reek of the posts of somebody who has never had to actually show bravery and instead haunts an internet forum condemning those who have demonstrated it. Pathetic drool.

Yawn. Perhaps I don't think playing football for hundreds of thousands of dollars for years equates to being a 'brave soldier'.

* whiteanting being roughly 50% of the content of your posts, this thread the classic example.

I'm just a poster on a forum. I'm not in any position to whiteant.

 

[peppy la pew]

Hey Clay,

You been taking posting lessons from Kisstephanie .

 

[Clay Davis]

Hey Clay,

You been taking posting lessons from Kisstephanie .

Yeah, she's my mum.

 

[peppy la pew]

Yeah, she's my mum.

Wouldn't surprise me,

Nice **** though

 

[theGav56]

What's brave about taking a hit on the footy field? Almost every person who has played competitive football has done it. Few have been lauded for it as much as McManus.

MacManus has nothing to do with being lauded. What has other people's opinions got to do with his actions and if they are brave or not? And he is NOT lauded for taking the hit, he is lauded for how he responded. Slurring a players name because that player is lauded on the other hand is gutless.

I said he was anything but a brave soldier. Yeah you said that... so why repeat it? The bit you are avoiding is that you said taking the hit was the only brave thing he did. Clearly lacking the courage of your convictions. I have a mate in Afghanistan. That is a brave soldier. Utterly irrelevant. But regardless, I have a brother in law sent there too. Didn't choose to go, didn't want to go, but had to go because he was sent. Operated a computer all day. McManus took a couple of hits.A couple? So you have trouble counting beyond 1 is that it? Big deal. He seagulled for most of his career around packs. Brave soldier? Bullshit.



It was a joke.



Then my essential premise remains. McManus was as brave as Des Headland.



Yawn. Perhaps I don't think playing football for hundreds of thousands of dollars for years equates to being a 'brave soldier'.



I'm just a poster on a forum. Sadly that looks like a life defining statement from you. I'm not in any position to whiteant. Too right. Powerless and irrelevant. Whiteanting way beyond your capacity. Just sniping, pissanting, that's your range.

Worst ever series of posts from a single poster I have seen and the end of my participation in the thread.

 

[Clay Davis]

My, my, I have really touched a nerve. Are you a friend of his, Gav?

I simply responded to the notion that McManus was a brave solider. That's all. He wasn't. He never will be. People started peddling this line he was brave after one act. They forgot all the other acts prior where he played like Des. Yet no one called Des a brave soldier. Why?

Players like McManus are the central reason why Fremantle has been a standing joke for over a decade. The fact that some fans revere him is laughable.

 

[Billy Hunt]

Neesham was a bad coach too, Bill.

Yeah your right Clit, he had no idea about coaching.


http://www.fullpointsfooty.net/n-o.... Swan Districts, Sydney, Claremont, Fremantle)

Gerard Neesham might well have stayed at East Fremantle for longer, but he had coaching ambitions, which Claremont offered him the chance to pursue. To say that this was an inspired move on the part of the Claremont committee would be putting it mildly, for over the course of an eight and a half season stint with the club Neesham would prove himself the most successful, and by popular consent the greatest, coach in the club's history. From 1987 to 1989 he occupied the role of playing coach, although he played less as time went on. In his debut season as coach the West Australian football landscape had undergone the most seismic shift in its history following the formation of the West Coast Eagles, a club touted by some as the salvation of the game in the west, and regarded by others as a major nail in its coffin. As far as the WAFL competition was concerned, the impact of the Eagles would be almost wholly inimical. Matches would be played in front of reduced crowds, media coverage would be much diminished, and, given that approaching forty of the league's best players would be siphoned off by the VFL newcomer, the overall standard of play would also undergo a decline.

Had it not been for Gerard Neesham, things might have been even worse. With Neesham as architect, Claremont developed an innovative style of play that, as with many truly great or revolutionary ideas, seemed beguilingly simple - so simple, in fact, that it was hard to believe no-one had thought of it before. Eventually christened 'chip and draw', it was a style which would garner fascination, scorn, incredulity and admiration in more or less equal measure for more than a decade. With the Tigers, it succeeded, partly because it took opposing teams by surprise, and partly because the club was blessed with a proliferation of the right type of players to implement it effectively. Central to 'chip and draw', its rule of thumb if you like, is the principle that possession is nine-tenths of the law. A team in possession is a team in control. Neesham's players were therefore under strict instructions to retain possession of the ball until such time as they could dispose of it accurately, either by passing it to a team mate, or by scoring. A player in possession of the ball could run with it or pass it in any direction, as long as possession was maintained. In sports like soccer, basketball and - most significantly of all in Neesham's case - water polo (see footnote 1), such a tenet was so obvious it was almost taken for granted, but such had not, historically, always been the case in Australia football, where movement of the ball towards goal tended to be the paramount objective.

Gerard Neesham's water polo tactics took the WAFL by storm. In 1987, the Tigers achieved greater dominance of the competition than any team since East Fremantle's unbeaten premiership side of 1946. At times they appeared to be light years ahead of the opposition in terms of inventiveness, tactical acumen and skill, but in the brave new era of football that was emerging, such prowess was costly. In 1988 it would be a significantly weakened Claremont that would mount its quest for back to back flags, with VFL clubs having deprived it of half a dozen of its premiership stars.

Under Neesham, this sequence of events would play out four times in quick succession, as Claremont won the premierships of 1987, 1989, 1991 and 1993, each time with a different nucleus of key players. Rarely, if ever, can a team in one of Australia's leading state leagues have displayed such resilience and recovery power.

 

[IAMJUNGLEMUFFIN]

Yeah, she's my mum.

She single?