Bret Thornton

[Call_of_juddy]

I know there have been a couple threads questioning Thornton's position in the 22 and I really think it's time for a prolonged stint in the Seconds, in my honest opinion. His 2010 form has been below par for a player of his experience and I don't believe he has shown much recent growth or development. I think this is especially highlighted when you compare him to some of the younger figures around him, in particular Russell, who are growing as players.

But beyond his immediate future, is there a position on Carlton's list for Bret post 2011? (I think he has one year left on his contract?) Will he continue to develop as a player? Should his loyalty over our darkest years be rewarded? And, is a Thornton-free backline capable of standing up when the team as a whole is pushing for a top four finish?

 

[gbatman]

he's a fill in, he is not good enough when we are good enough to win a flag, he is not good enough when we have all our players/defenders avaliable.

 

[Blue since 72]

Unfortunately for T-bird I think he's still stuck in the era when we were shite where as a backman it was ok to hold up the ball/play and wait for an option to open up (bearing in mind the pace of the game has increased alarmingly in the last few years). If he's to stay in the seniors as a backman he needs to attack the space in front of him and produce some run and carry.

Still reads the play well and is a good third man up but these days, apart from maybe fullback the rest of the backline needs to have some creative run and carry in their game or they just won't get a game.

Can he get up to speed or has the game passed him by. I'd think he would be on borrowed time if the likes of Aussie can do what alot of us hope he can.

 

[blues4flag]

He's a handy depth player. Might struggle to be a starting 22 player but we need insurance in case of injuries - and we seem to have an abundance of those to key defenders.

Won't be going anywhere.

 

[AlecDuncan]

He's capable of much better football than he's shown this year, but he's out of sorts for some reason, and showing no signs of getting his mojo back. He was always lucky to score a recall when Waite did, and now Bower's fit he can go back to Preston until he really earns a recall.

 

[The Toad]

A forward option perhaps?

 

[Blue and Silver]

I suspect he will be mentioned as trade bait at years end, there may be a few interested (Hawthorn perhaps? maybe GC) as he adds experiance and a strong marking capability to any side. Thing is though, Carlton are looking to play more direct attacking footy and Thornton is perpetually going sideways. Would go fine in a side looking for a backline general to direct play and slow things down, is not going to be part of our game plan for much longer

 

[Bluebear]

A forward option perhaps?

If I continue to see Thornton "hidden" up forward while Henderson cools his heels in the magoos I'll be very very disappointed.

I'd rather see Hendo try and fail, and learn than Thornton try and fail or even have minor success.

We are building a premiership team. Henderson looks like he'll be a part of that. Thornton is looking more and more like he won't.

If Bower is fit, Walker seems to have taken the third tall this year and attempted to expose him with run, and at times has done well man on man. So the question is, do we change that structure and lose Walkers rebound just to fit T-bird in?

White was already looking nearly as competant as Thornton, and possibly with better disposal, and you'd like to think much more upside, and then there's Austin.

Thornton at his best was a good honest footballer, but half way through this season, he is yet to re-capture that form.

I think he will stay on our list beyond next year as I don't think anyone will chase him, and we won't delist him as he'd be a good depth player (ala Wiggo the last couple of years), but it comes down to who is in form, who goes to GC and GWS, and whether White and Ausin continue to develop.

 

[AlecDuncan]

White was already looking nearly as competant as Thornton, and possibly with better disposal, and you'd like to think much more upside, and then there's Austin.

White is already ahead of Thornton on this year's form. He's no worse one-on-one, and is much better on the attack.

Brett has plenty of room for improvement though. We've all seen his best, and he's not producing anything like that this season. We don't need to hide him in the forward line, we need him to be the defender we know he is, and that means a refresher course at Cramer Street.

 

[Jabba73]

Thornton offers nothing of value as a forward, he is certainly no SOS. We have other options that will provide long term benefit rather than a short term bandaid solution for one player in a form slump.

If he cannot make it as a backman within the game plan we are looking to take to a premiership, he will not be more than a depth player in the long term.

I am disappointed for him that his form is declining as the teams is improving, but no, we do not owe him a game just because he has been through the dark years. We do, however, owe him respect, dignity and the opportunity to turn his form around. If he is good enough, he will be earning his spot back in the team in time for finals.

 

[chaser1]

Depth player at best only other option is a third tall in the Forward line. For lack of whatever he has not improved at all. That may mean not working hard enough on weaknesses in his game or just plain not good enough to do so.

If he doesnt improve i would look at trading him at the end of the year, but which club would want him and whatt would they offer?

Potentially we have players like White, Hendorson, Bower who are better for the modern game and our future!!

 

[Bluebear]

If Bower is fit, Walker seems to have taken the third tall this year and attempted to expose him with run, and at times has done well man on man. So the question is, do we change that structure and lose Walkers rebound just to fit T-bird in?

I guess the answer is no.

For a player of his experience to be dropped twice in one year, and not respond..........bad news.

If White and Austin were fit I think T-Bird would be done and dusted.

 

[Kramer1]

A tough one...certainly he has been down on form and I agree with him spending some time in the twos.

I still think he is a very capable third defender, but I cannot think of too many occasions in the past season and a half when he has had the opportunity to play that role with plenty of support around him. He is quickly exposed when asked to do a job he is not well equipped for.

His marking is great, anticipation is generally pretty good, and disposal is pretty reliable, certainly unfairly maligned by many on here. I think it's pace that brings him undone. Look at guys who play a similar role...Fletcher, Mackie, Hargreave, Birchall. Fletcher aside I don't think Thornton is a significantly inferior player to any on that list, though they probably all have him covered for pace.

Will probably remain in the mix until a clearly better option comes along. It certainly isn't White just yet, and I don't know where Austin is up to, but just in terms of list development it would be good to think one of these guys will squeeze himout sometime in 2011.

 

[blueboy25]

A forward option perhaps?

His a handy back-up for us especially with our backmen injury curse at the moment.

He won't make it as a full time forward but I thought last week was a perfect opportunity to throw him up there as no one else could take a mark with hendo off the ground and irish struggling.

Not sure of his contract status at the moment but if he is out of contract and he wants more than a one year deal we would be silly not to at least see what we can get for him at the trade table.

 

[Bluebear]

I still think he is a very capable third defender, but I cannot think of too many occasions in the past season and a half when he has had the opportunity to play that role with plenty of support around him. He is quickly exposed when asked to do a job he is not well equipped for.

Isn't that like saying "I think he can bat at number 3......just as long as one of the openers doesn't go out early".

Thornton has hidden behind the "third tall" tag for a long time, and while he was doing it well that was fine, and he even stepped up at times to play good first or second tall roles.

Not this year. Not at any point.

His marking is great, anticipation is generally pretty good, and disposal is pretty reliable, certainly unfairly maligned by many on here.

Again, not this year. Hasn't anticipated well, below he knees has been very poor at times, not getting to the contests the "third tall" needs to, disposal has dropped off (too many of his short kicks are dropping short).

I posted elsehwere, possibly earlier in this thread, he hasn't adjusted to the fact that Russ, Gibbs and Walker run the backline now in terms of offense, and Jammo runs it in terms of defence..........he isn't the "go to" guy down there anymore.

He didn't respond to being dropped earlier in the year, and came back into the team only to be hidden in the F50 at times.

Will want to show some big improvements late this year if he gets another go.

 

[Blue Dimension]

I've heard Aus has been carrying OP. Made his way back and had some signs of it a couple of weeks ago in the game where he tweeked his hamstring. Did he play for the Bullants last week?

 

[Kramer1]

Isn't that like saying "I think he can bat at number 3......just as long as one of the openers doesn't go out early".

Thornton has hidden behind the "third tall" tag for a long time, and while he was doing it well that was fine, and he even stepped up at times to play good first or second tall roles.

Not really...its just an observation that he hasn't had the opportunity to play the role he is best equipped for all that often. This is not to defend Brett, it anything it confirms that his value is limited in that he is not very versatile.

Again, not this year. Hasn't anticipated well, below he knees has been very poor at times, not getting to the contests the "third tall" needs to, disposal has dropped off (too many of his short kicks are dropping short).

Agreed. Though their is a pattern on this board...his poor games are often exaggerated, and his good games were very seldom celebrated last year.

I posted elsehwere, possibly earlier in this thread, he hasn't adjusted to the fact that Russ, Gibbs and Walker run the backline now in terms of offense, and Jammo runs it in terms of defence..........he isn't the "go to" guy down there anymore.

Don't know about this...and I am not certain that anyone is really running the backline. Their has be some improvement this year but still a fair bit of making it up as we go along occuring on a weekly basis. If we have four guys in charge down back we have some big problems.

He didn't respond to being dropped earlier in the year, and came back into the team only to be hidden in the F50 at times. Will want to show some big improvements late this year if he gets another go

Agreed, seems to express his emotion for the game in an unhealthy way, and doesn't come across well at all. In an ideal world he works his ring off for a few weeks in VFL and will be given an opportunity to stake a claim for finals action in the last couple of weeks of the regular season.

 

[CUG81]

bower, jamison, walker, white....maybe austin one day if he ever returns....doesnt leave much room at all for thorntan...trade bait it's most obvious.

 

[Silvagnis]

I've heard Aus has been carrying OP. Made his way back and had some signs of it a couple of weeks ago in the game where he tweeked his hamstring. Did he play for the Bullants last week?

Oz didn't play VFL last week.

The out of contract Thornton should definitely ask for a trade.

The proposed trade of Thornton to Hawthorn has turned out to be a disaster for both clubs.

Carlton couldn't afford to lose Bret at the time, yet Thornton would struggle to get a game in the 22 of both teams.

Trading for Thornton would have cost them their only ruck in Renouf and Morton.

If I was Hawthorn, I'd play Schoenmakers, Gilham, Gibson and Stratton ahead of Bret.

They probably wouldn't have drafted Gilham if Thornton was traded.

Nothing separating these two ATM.

Gilham doesn't lose the plot like Thornton, so he's a more stable player than Bret.

 

[Kramer1]

Carlton couldn't afford to lose Bret at the time, yet Thornton would struggle to get a game in the 22 of both teams.

Trading for Thornton would have cost them their only ruck in Renouf and Morton.

Yeah can't see that Hawthorn would still be coveting his services, especially if Gibson can settle in and play well. Stratton looks great, though Schoenmakers looks very scratchy.

 

[Bluebear]

The out of contract Thornton should definitely ask for a trade.

Got my hopes up for GC there, but signed for 2 years in July 09.

Would need to be traded. Not sure if anyone would trade for him.

Agree re Hawks trade. In hindsight we should have done it, but at the time we had to keep him.

 

[blues4flag]

Keep him. Even if he's not starting 22 he provides invaluable depth to a vulnerable defence.

 

[KoutoufidesGhost]

Out of form this year. His main problem is he gets the ball way too much for a guy who is prone to turnovers and brain fades. If he can be taught to handball to Gibbs, Walker and Russell, there is definitely a role in a top 4 side for a guy that reads the play like Thornton. Tom Harley survived at Geelong by playing third tall and sagging off, I think Thornton could play that role for Carlton.