Bret Thornton

[The_Wookie]

he's a classic backup - now at either end of the ground - but not the guy id want there permanently if given a chance.

 

[Malifice]

Been really good the past few weeks.

Had him in my votes last week vs the Eagles, in a tough game for a defender, with Duigan and Jamison out, and a slapped together back six against the one of the most dangerous and in form forward lines in the AFL.

Good timing too... we'll need exerienced in form defenders over the next few weeks with Jamo out.

 

[Blue Bawls]

Been really good the past few weeks.

Had him in my votes last week vs the Eagles, in a tough game for a defender, with Duigan and Jamison out, and a slapped together back six against the one of the most dangerous and in form forward lines in the AFL.

Good timing too... we'll need exerienced in form defenders over the next few weeks with Jamo out.

Same, thought he was best after Murphy and Scotland.

I don't get the hate either. Here's a bloke who's had to step up and I reckon he has - he should be applauded for not crumbling into dust when they bought two new defenders last year.

 

[Beloved]

Been really good the past few weeks.

Had him in my votes last week vs the Eagles, in a tough game for a defender, with Duigan and Jamison out, and a slapped together back six against the one of the most dangerous and in form forward lines in the AFL.

Good timing too... we'll need exerienced in form defenders over the next few weeks with Jamo out.

He has been extremely serviceable so far this season. You get the feeling someone had a word to him about where he is with his footy and something has clicked.

 

[The_Wookie]

Ive found him extremely serviceable...except for those periods where hes actually had to shut down a forward. He can read the play, he can take a grab, he's more attacking now - yes all good things. But he cant shut down a forward. And unfortunately with jamo out for a month...we're short on options for that role.

 

[Dramoth]

He has been extremely serviceable so far this season. You get the feeling someone had a word to him about where he is with his footy and something has clicked.

I agree... looked gone for all money last season when he couldnt get into the side... even with Bower on one leg he was finding it hard to break back in.

I think that someone (or a couple of someone's) sat down with him over the off season and told him that unless his attitude changed and he accepted that Jamo was now the general down back and he was just a foot soldier, he would be gone at the end of his contract.

I am quite happy with his attitude this season and I think so is the club. If he keeps going and if GWS doesnt offer him a contract (because the better he plays, the better his contract at GWS is going to be) his contract will be renewed for next year easily.

And like I said, if GWS is sniffing around him... he certainly isnt doing himself any disservice by playing well.

It's going to be interesting to see what happens this weekend with Jamo out and possibly Bower coming in as the other tall. I think that Rusty will take over control of the backline and then T-Bird can carry on with what he has been doing

 

[Big Red is back]

T bird doing very well could play a key role in finals, he is light years ahead of Austin or white as a player.

 

[Kades_Dad]

I'm far from a Thornton fan. He's not a tough defender and I hate the way that he instinctively tries to play backwards when he gains possession, but I don't think that most people can argue that:

1) With our current list available he's in our best 22
2) He was our best defender for a number of years when we were getting smacked.

Hopefully come finals time he will be pushed out of the side because we have better defensive options available. At the moment we don't.

 

[Claypigeon]

Been really good the past few weeks.

Had him in my votes last week vs the Eagles, in a tough game for a defender, with Duigan and Jamison out, and a slapped together back six against the one of the most dangerous and in form forward lines in the AFL.

Good timing too... we'll need exerienced in form defenders over the next few weeks with Jamo out.

I said in the Jammo injury thread that his ability to go forward is important as well. .. If over next few weeks we have to have Hendo or Waite play back for match up reasons TBird can always go forward and play a serviceable role there. ..

 

[Malifice]

I just dont get the lack of love for BT.

Has been really good for us for the past few weeks, and in difficult times with injury to players, yet still gets backhanded praise as his reward.

I amost feel sorry for the guy.

 

[Windhover]

I just dont get the lack of love for BT.

Has been really good for us for the past few weeks, and in difficult times with injury to players, yet still gets backhanded praise as his reward.

I amost feel sorry for the guy.

As an avowed disliker of BT it would be remiss of me to not admit his very solid performance against West Coast and generally good season. Having made that concession the explanation for my dislke is simple. What Carlton needs to compete with Collingwood and Geelong is at least 2 KPDs. We have one in Jamison when fit. Bower has shown in previous years that he can play off and beat forwards of the calibre of Franklin. But when will he be fit?

Thornton at 192 cm should have the ability to play as a KPD but he cannot. Every time he has been tried he has failed. It is true he is spoiling with far greater purpose and efficiency than in the past and that is a plus. Generally in the body on body marking contest he goes to ground and he does not have the ability or speed to play off a KPD. He is always at risk of harebrained panic, as he should in the first quarter against West Coast.

If he cannot play as a tall then because (a) he is not quick in mind or body; and (b) he is prone to floating the ball with his kicks, he is a liability as a small.

I accept that he is a very safe pair of hands in the uncontested mark and he is reasonable at predicting where the ball will come in from the opposition and finding space on the counter. When I add up all the pluses and minuses and think who he might play on against Collingwood or Geelong I cannot think of a player or position in which he is not likely to be exploited.

I am not saying he should not be in the side at the moment given the players out injured/needing to find form. What i am saying is he will be hard to carry on Grand Final day in a side striving for 17. Against Richmond we should play Austin on Riewoldt all day (remembering BT had 6 kicked against him last time). We need to find out if he is any better than BT at playing on him.

 

[Malifice]

As an avowed disliker of BT it would be remiss of me to not admit his very solid performance against West Coast and generally good season. Having made that concession the explanation for my dislke is simple. What Carlton needs to compete with Collingwood and Geelong is at least 2 KPDs. We have one in Jamison when fit. Bower has shown in previous years that he can play off and beat forwards of the calibre of Franklin. But when will he be fit?

Thornton at 192 cm should have the ability to play as a KPD but he cannot. Every time he has been tried he has failed. It is true he is spoiling with far greater purpose and efficiency than in the past and that is a plus. Generally in the body on body marking contest he goes to ground and he does not have the ability or speed to play off a KPD. He is always at risk of harebrained panic, as he should in the first quarter against West Coast.

If he cannot play as a tall then because (a) he is not quick in mind or body; and (b) he is prone to floating the ball with his kicks, he is a liability as a small.

I accept that he is a very safe pair of hands in the uncontested mark and he is reasonable at predicting where the ball will come in from the opposition and finding space on the counter. When I add up all the pluses and minuses and think who he might play on against Collingwood or Geelong I cannot think of a player or position in which he is not likely to be exploited.

I am not saying he should not be in the side at the moment given the players out injured/needing to find form. What i am saying is he will be hard to carry on Grand Final day in a side striving for 17. Against Richmond we should play Austin on Riewoldt all day (remembering BT had 6 kicked against him last time). We need to find out if he is any better than BT at playing on him.

In a nutshell though mate, this is just stating that he isnt (and never will be) elite.

I conceed this. I also think its fairly self evident.

I just guess my dismay comes from the fact that he is still a really useful and productive member of our side, who has been in some goood form recently, yet the fact he aint elite keeps getting brought up.

 

[The Toad]

I think one of the best things about T-Bird is that when he is clearing the ball from our defence I'm never nervous about it getting turned over. (well nearly never)
He's got a good footy brain and thats what we need.

 

[thylacine60]

Shame it mostly gets kicked backwards.

 

[CrippsonBlue]

Cause kicking it long and turning it straight over certainly helped us on the weekend...

 

[CrippsonBlue]

I may be wrong with the timing of this incident, which pretty much make the following point irrelevant, but during the 3rd quarter when we were within about a goal I remember he held the ball up indicating to slow it down and play tempo footy.

Most would criticise him for this, especially as we had the momentum at the time, but as Toady suggested I think it really highlights his footy brain.

As it turns out he was right to do this, and we would have really benefited had we have slowed it down and just controlled the game on our terms for a while even if the scoreboard wasn't ticking over. Could have been a very different final term if it started within a kick...

Think it was pretty obvious he knew he had to play on more, as there were a couple of games a few weeks back where he seemed to play on at all costs and maybe went a little overboard. It's now pretty obvious he is willing to play on and get the ball moving, but is reluctant to send it to a contest if the switch may be on - don't see how this is a cause for criticism.

I'm a fan of Thornton, feel pretty comfortable with the ball in his hands, and you don't have to be popular with supporters to get a game thankfully - can't see him going out of the team anytime soon, and doubt we will look to offload a defender who has played the majority of matches this year, so expect him to be a topic of discussion for a while longer yet.

 

[thylacine60]

Cause kicking it long and turning it straight over certainly helped us on the weekend...

Yep, being pushed deeper and deeper into our back pocket is how we win most games.

 

[CrippsonBlue]

Yep, being pushed deeper and deeper into our back pocket is how we win most games.

It looked bad against the Eagles because of the pressure they applied, however it was also due to our players not working hard enough to create space and leads - but yes, switching the play is something we've consistently done and it helps us win games

Kicking it long wasn't really an option as they were killing us in the air, and if our players were prepared to work harder, switching it would have been correct more often than not in that game.

I agree though that our players need to be more aware on whether the switch is actually on, as we've often gone back simply to be forced to kick it to a contest to where we originally had the ball (say around their 50)

This isn't limited to Thornton though, and the game against the Eagles is not the best to highlight this due to the factors I raised.

 

[thylacine60]

I worry that his first option always seems to look back. That and the time he takes to find ANY option. I think he has played bloody well otherwise and the dilly-dallying is not restricted to him. Mitch and Army can take a week to deliver as well. Attack ffs!

 

[Windhover]

In a nutshell though mate, this is just stating that he isnt (and never will be) elite.

Let's leave nutshells to their stated purpose. I am not just stating he isn't elite. Definitionally it is not possible to have a team of "elites". Every team has a base of good, honest toilers. Players like Robinson, Ellard and Russell might be the favorites of various fans but, if we are honest, none are likely to AA or even AA nominated (though one is constantly surprised). I have chosen these 3 players because on form this year I would not consider dropping any of them for any game they are fit to play. Further, I believe that a team with all 3 of them playing in it can expect them to hold up their end against any side or player in the competition.

Thornton, for mine, does not fit either of those 2 criteria. At best (which we have been privileged to witness in recent times) he is a good plodder. He will do competently against selected players in selected opposition.

It gives me no pleasure to state this of a player who has undoubtedly been a servant of the club for many years. Nor does it give me pleasure to repeat my explanations. But you ask "Why no love?". That is why. No love.

 

[Malifice]

Let's leave nutshells to their stated purpose. I am not just stating he isn't elite. Definitionally it is not possible to have a team of "elites". Every team has a base of good, honest toilers. Players like Robinson, Ellard and Russell might be the favorites of various fans but, if we are honest, none are likely to AA or even AA nominated (though one is constantly surprised). I have chosen these 3 players because on form this year I would not consider dropping any of them for any game they are fit to play. Further, I believe that a team with all 3 of them playing in it can expect them to hold up their end against any side or player in the competition.

Thornton, for mine, does not fit either of those 2 criteria. At best (which we have been privileged to witness in recent times) he is a good plodder. He will do competently against selected players in selected opposition.

It gives me no pleasure to state this of a player who has undoubtedly been a servant of the club for many years. Nor does it give me pleasure to repeat my explanations. But you ask "Why no love?". That is why. No love.

Sweet.

Now can we give him a wrap for some good recent performances without reminding us all of how much of a plodder he usually is?

 

[Claypigeon]

I worry that his first option always seems to look back. That and the time he takes to find ANY option. I think he has played bloody well otherwise and the dilly-dallying is not restricted to him. Mitch and Army can take a week to deliver as well. Attack ffs!

I agree I prefer quick precise use of the ball because delays play into the oppositions attempt to zone off the contest. .. I'm not sure I saw a lot of this on the weekend that wasn't due to players up the field not doing their jobs. ..

The last quarter, in particularly, he marked strongly and hit up a targets 30-40m down the field with crisp efficient kicking. .. Somehow our forwards couldn't take advantage of this quick precise movement though. ..

When he does go sideways its nearly always to Gibbs, Yazz or occasionally Rusty who I for one would prefer to see him do especially if it leads to a switch of play and quick movement which is the basis for our successful game play from the back half this year. .. We are missing Duigan/Laidler at the moment as they are usually the next target for the switch. ..

I agree that a fit Jamison and an inform 2nd option would be handy at the moment but Thornton is doing a job and some aspects of his work is beyond what some others have produced. .. Plus he seems to be gelling with the defence and improving with each match. .. Until we find a better KPD option I think TBird is a required player. .. plus I think a team with Jamison as the main KPD and TBird/Steps combining to help each other can fulfill the job for the time being. .. I refuse to rule any player out of been part of future success until proven otherwise. ..

Edit: and at the risk of being repetitive his ability to go forward and be serviceable increases the flexibility of the team. ..

 

[Jamie007]

Yep, being pushed deeper and deeper into our back pocket is how we win most games.

I think you will find its a massive myth about Thornton kicking backwards all the time in 2011. If you go back and watch the game, he may go backwards once, twice max. The rest of the time its other players kicking backwards to him. They use him to switch play. This happens every single week. If it wasnt part of our gameplan, then you'd think Ratten would have exploded by now. I really hate the way Tbird cops it, yet throughout a game ,other players kick backwards twice as much, yet nothing is ever said. Tbird has clearly taken on instructions this year about gameplan, and taken it onboard and improved himself. Its time people start taking notice of it, instead of accusing him of things he may have done pre 2011. Im sure ratten has told him to get it into Gibbs or Yarrans hands as much as possible, and they are usually on either side of him. Gibbs last week kicked backwards to him and even Yarran does it aswell. Throughout most games there aren't many players who arent guilty of it.

 

[gbatman]

Thornton is a servicable player and has been doing a decent job. It's no secret that idealy we'd love to upgrade on him but that's just not possible at the moment. Bower if fit would be an upgrade but I don't think that's gonna happen any time soon. Thornton's probably going to have to fill the Jamison void. Henderson or Bower will most likely have to play CHB.

 

[Go_Blues!]

If Thorton had been out of contract at the end of last season, I am not convinced that he would still be with us. However, credit where it is due, he did his time in the VFL, worked on his game and is now a key member of a much stronger back line than the one we had last year. This is exactly the kind of effort we should acknowledge and reward, and the MC is doing both of these things. I am tipping BT will got top 10 in the B&F this year. This would be an effort that I hope his critics acknowledge and embrace.