Coach Brett Ratten

Took over at way different periods of development though too. You can't really measure them against each other because we had 10 years of rebuild and spent up on players and staff for him. Goody came in after Roos had straightened them up but they were still a pretty psychologically weak and patchy side.

If you gave both coaches the same list at the same time you could measure it but it's pointless holding them up against each other.
The best recruit they got was Choco Williams. I think he would’ve been a huge player in their premiership year.
 
The Dees had a heap of injury and bad luck or he probably would have got the arse. In the end the down years got them picks that won them a flag. Same happened to Geelong when they got Selwood, if they hadn't dropped they might not have won flags and Fishlips would have been gone.
With a little help from the AFL in the form of Angus Brayshaw.
 
Undoubtedly.

Not because we'll get worse, but because the teams below us will get better and we'll still be doing the same thing.


I'm actually reasonably positive. It will defy how progression has worked at other clubs if we don't play finals next year. Our coaching sucks but the players are experienced and have played enough together. We'll probably end up with an Amon or something which adds to the talent pile and kids a year older.

To me Ratts is never going to win a premiership and the limitations of our list would need another soft year and absolute luck to win one unless a few join Sinclair.

I think the club has never really seen this as a premiership build. Under Lethlean we just wanted to be competitive, something like the Scott North Melbourne had. Just off the peloton but enough to sell memberships.

The damage was done in the last 20 years of draft failures and poor choices. We just have to look something other than embarrassing, and give off some positivity.
 

ScrappyDo

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I'm actually reasonably positive. It will defy how progression has worked at other clubs if we don't play finals next year. Our coaching sucks but the players are experienced and have played enough together. We'll probably end up with an Amon or something which adds to the talent pile and kids a year older.

To me Ratts is never going to win a premiership and the limitations of our list would need another soft year and absolute luck to win one unless a few join Sinclair.

I think the club has never really seen this as a premiership build. Under Lethlean we just wanted to be competitive, something like the Scott North Melbourne had. Just off the peloton but enough to sell memberships.

The damage was done in the last 20 years of draft failures and poor choices. We just have to look something other than embarrassing, and give off some positivity.
I reckon we have almost enough talent but lack some technical basics. Fix that and we're a top 6 side in with a sniff. That may be the best we can hope for over the next couple of years.
 

Saintbloke

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I remember when Ratts was appointed, I thought that it might have been better not to shuffle the deck chairs around, but to look outside the group of Richo assistants, and I'm now thinking it would have been better, but anyway it's just a thought.
 

MordySaint

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Jun 2, 2012
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I'm actually reasonably positive. It will defy how progression has worked at other clubs if we don't play finals next year. Our coaching sucks but the players are experienced and have played enough together. We'll probably end up with an Amon or something which adds to the talent pile and kids a year older.

To me Ratts is never going to win a premiership and the limitations of our list would need another soft year and absolute luck to win one unless a few join Sinclair.

I think the club has never really seen this as a premiership build. Under Lethlean we just wanted to be competitive, something like the Scott North Melbourne had. Just off the peloton but enough to sell memberships.

The damage was done in the last 20 years of draft failures and poor choices. We just have to look something other than embarrassing, and give off some positivity.

Unless we fix our deficiencies in our midfield we aren't going anywhere quickly.

Getting a Lobb, DeGoey etc will only paper the cracks.

You could argue whether the midfield issues are coaching based or player based.

I would put it down to coaching / football department. Changing the players isn't going to have much effect unless they get the right coaching and messaging.
 
I'm actually reasonably positive.

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I reckon we have almost enough talent but lack some technical basics. Fix that and we're a top 6 side in with a sniff. That may be the best we can hope for over the next couple of years.


To me Freo are on the right path, Melbourne is not going away, Brisbane are similar to us, probably just a step down and need a few players to step up, Dogs have youth coming on and a good core so will rise, Calton and Sydney both on the way up, Collingwood have a lot of their best talent ageing but still have a couple of years to make hay and GC are coming. We sit in that pile. Under that Richmond, Hawks, Adelaide will get better but sit outside the better lists.

I don't see us as top a definite top 4 but with injury luck and a player like Amon, Naz, Windy, Owens, Coff and Clark stepping up and we are in with a shot. A lot comes down to the fixturing and injury but the list we have is very experienced and old enough to start stringing together consistent footy now.
 
Unless we fix our deficiencies in our midfield we aren't going anywhere quickly.

Getting a Lobb, DeGoey etc will only paper the cracks.

You could argue whether the midfield issues are coaching based or player based.

I would put it down to coaching / football department. Changing the players isn't going to have much effect unless they get the right coaching and messaging.


This is true 4 years ago. Apart from a few clubs like Carlton, Dogs and Melbourne most sides don't have a pile of superstar mids. One really good extractor and some outside silk and an star inbetweener are enough to have Freo in contention.

Footy is being played faster and the extractors who dish out to the better outside players are doing better than a pile of contested ball winners.

To me Amon would be good for that and if we got Crouch for near free you change the way we play immediately for nothing but wages.

We need to modernise the game plan and maximise what we have not worry about what's missing otherwise.

Our wings could definitely be a bit more slick and speedy with good users IMO.We could look at bringing Acres back for some run on the wings.

We need a focus on skills training and training for in tight work too. Pinging the ball around to move it through heavy traffic is really important now.
 

g_TRAIN

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I think it's a combination of system and skills but more so system.

We always get stuck moving the ball slowly from defensive 50, allowing teams to set up defensively and then turning it over with a pressure kick down the line. It happens time and time again. Our kick-ins are always ultra-conservative - even when there is a corridor option we usually don't even look at it.

We don't get the reward for effort because our ball movement is shocking - we have games where we rack up 120 marks (Number 1 ranked marks team in the AFL) but hardly move the ball forward at all. Players often work hard to space, and get the ball but then hesitate to pull the trigger on a moderately challenging 45-degree kick instead they go for something short near the boundary which then gives the defending team time to close us down. There is very little playing on instinct, quick give handballs, etc. We just don't challenge teams with our offense and eventually, they get momentum, and when they do they kick goals by doing the things we can't.

When we do manage to get a forward entry it's labored and slow meaning it's almost impossible for our mids to settle and aim a proper kick and also impossible for our forwards to time a lead or get any separation and space in what is now a flooded forward line.

Our forward line looks a million times better when we have players running chest out with time and space, but that takes a system to generate and we are not doing the things that bring that kind of play into the game.

Some interesting stats on how we play the game:

High disposal team (ranked 4th)
High marks team (ranked 1st)
Low clanger team (ranked 16th)

This all paints the picture of very conservative/slow ball movement and over-possession.

Ratten should know all of this - If he doesn't then it would amaze me but the question has to be why we can't execute - do the players have too much on their minds, do we need to free them up more?
 
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I remember when Ratts was appointed, I thought that it might have been better not to shuffle the deck chairs around, but to look outside the group of Richo assistants, and I'm now thinking it would have been better, but anyway it's just a thought.


The same I was just so glad to be rid of Cho, that anything looked better. Realistically we should have looked around. We did it all on the cheap.
 

MordySaint

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The same I was just so glad to be rid of Cho, that anything looked better. Realistically we should have looked around. We did it all on the cheap.

1000% this.

Ratten was seemingly given the keys when he walked in as assistant.

I feel the process of finding a new coach was tainted by this process.
 
I think it's a combination of system and skills.

We need a couple of Daniel Rich, and Bailey Dale types who can really be ultra-aggressive with their kicking at 45-degree angles, etc. + we need a gameplan that can utilize them. Our midfield isn't bad, on paper it's probably good enough but we do lack a superstar and we lack guys who can really damage by foot.

We always get stuck moving the ball slowly from defensive 50, allowing teams to set up defensively and then turning it over with a pressure kick down the line. It happens time and time again. Our kick-ins are always ultra-conservative - even when there is a corridor option we usually don't take it.

We don't get the reward for effort because our ball movement is shocking - we have games where we rack up 120 marks but hardly move the ball forward at all. Players often work hard to space, and get the ball but then hesitate to pull the trigger on a moderately challenging 45-degree kick instead they go for something short near the boundary which then gives the defending team time to close us down. There is very little playing on instinct, quick give handballs, etc. We just don't challenge teams with our offense.


The kick out is one of the most systemised plays in footy. There should be a pile of set plays. We don't look like we are very systemised in it so it's another that points to a lack of cohesion between lines. The defence has improved since we got Boris in but the transition between lines looks off.
 
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