Opinion Butcher

[Coobk001]

Did he not participate in the scratch match we played with the Crowserves?

Hang on, what??? There was a scratch match? When was this? Who played? What was the result? Why hasnt this been reported on?

 

[Ebert80]

There's a wrong type of goal?

Yeah, the ones kicked against us.

 

[Nemisis]

Hang on, what??? There was a scratch match? When was this? Who played? What was the result? Why hasnt this been reported on?

I think Butch kicked 10-1

 

[Coobk001]

I think Butch kicked 10-1

Now i know we're talking s#$t unfortunately

 

[ozph1870]

Hang on, what??? There was a scratch match? When was this? Who played? What was the result? Why hasnt this been reported on?

only harvey and flynn played, the rest was mostly some maggies reserves (who played a day before) and under 18s. not even any of our sanfl 'top up' players played. the crows treated it like a grand final, they won by 112 points.

 

[Janus]

lol Tebow.

Will end up as a question in Trivial Pursuit or Jeopardy.

"This former quarterback won a playoff game for the Denver Broncos before being cut by the New England Patriots two years later."

 

[steve4445]

anyone know how long he has left on his contract?

 

[Adz2332]

end of next year i believe

 

[Power freak 2008]

Hang on, what??? There was a scratch match? When was this? Who played? What was the result? Why hasnt this been reported on?

It was for the tv series the recruit. They were on opposing teams and they are all competing for an AFL contract.

 

[PA88]

I'm not sure if many of you have been watching the sanfl games or have just been reading the stats of the game only. Butcher has been kicking handfulls of goals and leading, marking , presenting, putting pressure on the defenders. He's doing it all. So why is he out of the side if we are needing another tall forward? Is it because along with his bags of 5 goals which he's kicked via snaps and off the ground kicks he's missed 5 dead-set easy set shots? Is it because he's 30m out in front on a slight angle and lining up for a normal punt but then turns to his side and snaps it instead making it a 50/50 chance of getting the goal?

 

[El_Scorcho]

I'm not sure if many of you have been watching the sanfl games or have just been reading the stats of the game only. Butcher has been kicking handfulls of goals and leading, marking , presenting, putting pressure on the defenders. He's doing it all. So why is he out of the side if we are needing another tall forward? Is it because along with his bags of 5 goals which he's kicked via snaps and off the ground kicks he's missed 5 dead-set easy set shots? Is it because he's 30m out in front on a slight angle and lining up for a normal punt but then turns to his side and snaps it instead making it a 50/50 chance of getting the goal?

The people who are making intelligent arguments against Butcher are arguing exactly this, that his inability to convert chances will cost us.

In all the SANFL games i've watched (which is most), Butch has taken the best defender, and still been the best KPF on the ground. He might not stay involved for 4 quarters, but hey, Schulz and Westhoff haven't stayed involved for 4 quarters a whole lot in the last 6 or 7 games. People (me included) rave about Mitch Harvey because he just seems to have all the tools to turn himself into a great AFL forward, but his performances and impact haven't gone near Butcher this year.

Every time the coaches talk about him they mention how hard he's working on his set shots. I'd rather have him in the AFL side for structural reasons because I feel that even with him wasting a shot or two, we'll have overall a lot more shots at goal with that extra marking target up there. The midseason review of the forwards posted on the PAFC website mentioned how much Schulz and Westhoff rely on eachother with only two of them up there. We could quite easily be giving them more help and I think we'd improve as a side because of that.

 

[chiwigi]

The people who are making intelligent arguments against Butcher are arguing exactly this, that his inability to convert chances will cost us.

In all the SANFL games i've watched (which is most), Butch has taken the best defender, and still been the best KPF on the ground. He might not stay involved for 4 quarters, but hey, Schulz and Westhoff haven't stayed involved for 4 quarters a whole lot in the last 6 or 7 games. People (me included) rave about Mitch Harvey because he just seems to have all the tools to turn himself into a great AFL forward, but his performances and impact haven't gone near Butcher this year.

Every time the coaches talk about him they mention how hard he's working on his set shots. I'd rather have him in the AFL side for structural reasons because I feel that even with him wasting a shot or two, we'll have overall a lot more shots at goal with that extra marking target up there. The midseason review of the forwards posted on the PAFC website mentioned how much Schulz and Westhoff rely on eachother with only two of them up there. We could quite easily be giving them more help and I think we'd improve as a side because of that.

I agree ut whilst we are winning it's hard to argue with Hinkley and Co's decisions.

 

[Jim Dixon]

The people who are making intelligent arguments against Butcher are arguing exactly this, that his inability to convert chances will cost us.

In all the SANFL games i've watched (which is most), Butch has taken the best defender, and still been the best KPF on the ground. He might not stay involved for 4 quarters, but hey, Schulz and Westhoff haven't stayed involved for 4 quarters a whole lot in the last 6 or 7 games. People (me included) rave about Mitch Harvey because he just seems to have all the tools to turn himself into a great AFL forward, but his performances and impact haven't gone near Butcher this year.

Every time the coaches talk about him they mention how hard he's working on his set shots. I'd rather have him in the AFL side for structural reasons because I feel that even with him wasting a shot or two, we'll have overall a lot more shots at goal with that extra marking target up there. The midseason review of the forwards posted on the PAFC website mentioned how much Schulz and Westhoff rely on eachother with only two of them up there. We could quite easily be giving them more help and I think we'd improve as a side because of that.

I was a bit of a Butcher 'agnostic' but El_Scorcho has swung me around. If I ever need an advocate, I'll be sure to call.

I agree ut whilst we are winning it's hard to argue with Hinkley and Co's decisions.

And this is the rub- I can't argue with Ken Hinkley and he clearly isn't ready to include Butcher in the team. Last week he was willing to send Jackson Trengove into the forward line rather then pick John and that was against St. Kilda.

And I gather from the Maggies forum that Butcher had a shocker against Centrals. Won't improve his confidence any.

You look at every player on our list, Ken Hinkley's been able to improve them and lift their game, often dramatically, except John Butcher. I blame the hip injury. If it is the hip injury still working out, then Ken will just ignore him this year, and let Darren Burgess work on him over the summer. Then we'll try this exercise again in 2015.

 

[yepits2020]

I am confident Butcher will make it as an AFL forward. The coaching staff know what to fix. If we don't need him this year, then great, let him develop and gain confidence in the State league team. I have seen him play a couple of times and I do believe he is actually coming along nicely. He will be cherry ripe for 2015.

 

[Phhht]

You look at every player on our list, Ken Hinkley's been able to improve them and lift their game, often dramatically, except John Butcher. I blame the hip injury. ......

I disagree on this point. Comparing John Butcher this year to last you cant say he hasnt improved. Granted he hasnt become the 'missing link' we need for our fwd structure (yet) but he has definitely improved.

people are still to wrapped up in his dodgy goal kicking routine. Without doubt he needs to improve that but its not what is keeping him out of the side.

He needs to be super competitive FOR LONGER.

Hinkley's no.1 philosophy is being able to win your own ball. John doesnt do it often/consistently enough to warrant elevation to the AFL side. YET!

 

[WINGARDium]

I disagree on this point. Comparing John Butcher this year to last you cant say he hasnt improved. Granted he hasnt become the 'missing link' we need for our fwd structure (yet) but he has definitely improved.

people are still to wrapped up in his dodgy goal kicking routine. Without doubt he needs to improve that but its not what is keeping him out of the side.

He needs to be super competitive FOR LONGER.

Hinkley's no.1 philosophy is being able to win your own ball. John doesnt do it often/consistently enough to warrant elevation to the AFL side. YET!

Consistency and competitiveness is the key, but we should continue to give him the opportunity to work on just that, and prove himself through the SANFL. Don' t write him off. Remember Tredders' inaccurate kick at goal for so long? Investing time in him wasn't a waste.

 

[PA88]

The people who are making intelligent arguments against Butcher are arguing exactly this, that his inability to convert chances will cost us.

In all the SANFL games i've watched (which is most), Butch has taken the best defender, and still been the best KPF on the ground. He might not stay involved for 4 quarters, but hey, Schulz and Westhoff haven't stayed involved for 4 quarters a whole lot in the last 6 or 7 games. People (me included) rave about Mitch Harvey because he just seems to have all the tools to turn himself into a great AFL forward, but his performances and impact haven't gone near Butcher this year.

Every time the coaches talk about him they mention how hard he's working on his set shots. I'd rather have him in the AFL side for structural reasons because I feel that even with him wasting a shot or two, we'll have overall a lot more shots at goal with that extra marking target up there. The midseason review of the forwards posted on the PAFC website mentioned how much Schulz and Westhoff rely on eachother with only two of them up there. We could quite easily be giving them more help and I think we'd improve as a side because of that.

Again, why is he not in the AFL side? He seems to be doing everything right in the SANFL side. So is it coming down to his set-shot on goal that's keeping him out of the AFL side?

 

[cortez]

Again, why is he not in the AFL side? He seems to be doing everything right in the SANFL side. So is it coming down to his set-shot on goal that's keeping him out of the AFL side?

Who do you drop for him?

 

[PA88]

Who do you drop for him?

I'm not necessarily calling for him to be played in the AFL. I'm asking why he's not been called up if he's that important to the forward structure and to Schulz and Westhoff having more freedom as some are suggesting. You would think that Hinkley would design a position for him? Is it his set-shots, because it seems as though the rest of his game is pretty good. People are wanting him called up for AFL.

 

[cortez]

I'm not necessarily calling for him to be played in the AFL. I'm asking what he's not been called up if he's that important to the forward structure and to Schulz and Westhoff having more freedom, then why has Hinkley not designed a position for him? Is it his set-shots, because it seems as though the rest of his game is pretty good. People are wanting him called up for AFL.

I think our forwards are functioning well and there is no room for him....he needs to dominate the twos and demand that we make room for him in the team.

 

[Nelso]

Again, why is he not in the AFL side? He seems to be doing everything right in the SANFL side. So is it coming down to his set-shot on goal that's keeping him out of the AFL side?

Simple, not good enough at this stage to demand a regular spot in the AFL team. His form in the SANFL has been average.

And why would we mess up the structure that we currently have up forward which has won us the last 8 games?

 

[PA88]

Simple, not good enough at this stage to demand a regular spot in the AFL team. His form in the SANFL has been average.

And why would we mess up the structure that we currently have up forward which has won us the last 8 games?

It isn't just the forward structure that's won us the last 8 games. That's not the reason for keeping a player out of the side. People are calling for Butcher to come in to the side. His form in the sanfl is not average. He's played pretty well in most games, but has kicked poorly in too many games even though he's got himself a few goals, it is the goals he's missed that is an issue. I just wonder that people believe he should be in the afl side because he takes a defender away from Schulz etc etc ... don't worry about his set shot kick. He's not in the side, so is it his set shot kick that's a main reason and is his set shot kick going to kick himself out of an afl career?

 

[Peck]

I disagree on this point. Comparing John Butcher this year to last you cant say he hasnt improved. Granted he hasnt become the 'missing link' we need for our fwd structure (yet) but he has definitely improved.

people are still to wrapped up in his dodgy goal kicking routine. Without doubt he needs to improve that but its not what is keeping him out of the side.

He needs to be super competitive FOR LONGER.

Hinkley's no.1 philosophy is being able to win your own ball. John doesnt do it often/consistently enough to warrant elevation to the AFL side. YET!

He has improved, but not enough just yet. Perhaps he needs another pre-season to get his fitness up but you are spot on that he needs to be competitive for longer.

I know its harsh to bring it up 10 weeks later but his inclusion cost us for sure against North Melbourne given how close it was and how bad he was that day. Just couldn't do a thing right, and while I thought we should have kept him anyway after his game the previous week, writing it off as "one of those days", I'm absolutely fine with leaving him out as the fact is his highest impact game isn't worth the chance of a game like that. Not when we are fighting for top spot.

Unless Schulz or Westhoff get injured, or he hits a huge run of form I don't think we will see him in the AFL side again this year. For me the reason is more than his set shot, but I would definitely say that his terrible set shot polarises people in a big way.

 

[Power Raid]

anyone know how long he has left on his contract?

2015

 

[Powerstufff]

..... People are calling for Butcher to come in to the side .....

No they're not, bar the usual suspects here. Really they're not.

..... His form in the sanfl is not average .....

Based on?