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Opinion Butcher

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SgtSchulz said:
If he can't kick a bag in the SANFL when he plays up forward...
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Butch has kicked a bigger bag than any other of our SANFL players this year, yet we are playing Paul Stewart... somewhere in the forward line, or so I've read.
 
The perfect time to play him has passed when Ryder went down and we were down a tall.

If the season is shot, we should give him some games however, we all talk about rewarding form.

I can't speak much for how he goes in the SANFL as I barely have the time to even watch the AFL games..

And I get that SANFL is not a high scoring tall forward league.
But has Butchers form been worth rewarding?

Has he been getting in a leading position, taking strong pack marks, kicking accurately, crashing through packs consistently?
I dont mean popping up for one game and then doing a couple of good things in the next, but never really showing consistent strong form game after game?

Some of the other players in the AFL side should be dropped due to form, correct.

That doesn't minimise the fact that, has Butcher really come out this year and shown he is our best option to bring in and should we continue to invest time in him in the AFL.
 
SilenceOz said:
The perfect time to play him has passed when Ryder went down and we were down a tall.

If the season is shot, we should give him some games however, we all talk about rewarding form.

I can't speak much for how he goes in the SANFL as I barely have the time to even watch the AFL games..

And I get that SANFL is not a high scoring tall forward league.
But has Butchers form been worth rewarding?

Has he been getting in a leading position, taking strong pack marks, kicking accurately, crashing through packs consistently?
I dont mean popping up for one game and then doing a couple of good things in the next, but never really showing consistent strong form game after game?

Some of the other players in the AFL side should be dropped due to form, correct.

That doesn't minimise the fact that, has Butcher really come out this year and shown he is our best option to bring in and should we continue to invest time in him in the AFL.
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That is all true, but one could probably argue that Bucthers AFL games in the last 2 years have been (small sample size) no worse than his SANFL performances on average, and that an AFL listed player deserves time on the AFL stage, as that is the true test of what he has to offer.

He has the physique and the fitness after 5 seasons, now is the time to find out what game he has and how much he wants an AFL future.
 
edgie said:
That is all true, but one could probably argue that Bucthers AFL games in the last 2 years have been (small sample size) no worse than his SANFL performances on average, and that an AFL listed player deserves time on the AFL stage, as that is the true test of what he has to offer.

He has the physique and the fitness after 5 seasons, now is the time to find out what game he has and how much he wants an AFL future.
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Still can't hit the side of a barn. Schulz gets smashed for missing to gimmes. How do you expect Butcher to get a pass when he can't be trusted from the farking goal line.
 

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El_Scorcho said:
The SANFL is a difficult league to kick bags because of the poor kicking and team defence. We've been through this.

Just get him in. The season is gone. Let's pick a ******* developing forward and give him the same sort of run of games we'd give him if he was a poorly skilled fringe mid
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If he comes in. Stays in for the remainer of the season, and does absolutely nothing. Rekon the board will finally give it up then?
 
AJJPAFC said:
If he comes in. Stays in for the remainer of the season, and does absolutely nothing. Rekon the board will finally give it up then?
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Not a chance, he could be delisted, start playing for North Adelaide still miss every goal and people would still be begging for him to get an AFL game.
 
It will be interesting to see where Butch lines up for the Maggies this sunday, Austin is back so it is highly unlikely he will play chb.
Even if Jonas is going to be dropped he can't be selected for the Maggies until he is, so maybe due to the 4 day break Clurey could be held back, and Butch could play fullback, or as the 3rd tall defender.

If the AFL finals are mathematically gone ( f*** I hate saying that ) I wouldn't have a problem with Butch playing the last 5 or 6 games for the Power, doing that should settle the arguement for all, as to whether he stays on the list ( highly unlikely ), or is delisted and then rookie listed, or written off completely.
 
When goal kicking becomes such an important part of games that we are losing based on our accuracy, then that basically signed Butchers papers.

He's not getting a chance because he can't kick, simple as that and he was dropped this year purely because his kicking failed at the top level.

Time to move on from Butcher. I wanted him to make it, but his papers are now fairly marked.
 
Coobk001 said:
When goal kicking becomes such an important part of games that we are losing based on our accuracy, then that basically signed Butchers papers.

He's not getting a chance because he can't kick, simple as that and he was dropped this year purely because his kicking failed at the top level.

Time to move on from Butcher. I wanted him to make it, but his papers are now fairly marked.
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Agreed, it definitely appears that Butch has had his cards marked ` never to be selected again, ' and there is more chance of eg Harvs given a taste of the big time if the season is mathematically shot, than a rehash of Butch for probably more of the same shotgun pellet accuracy we have been seeing for years.
 
Coobk001 said:
When goal kicking becomes such an important part of games that we are losing based on our accuracy, then that basically signed Butchers papers.

He's not getting a chance because he can't kick, simple as that and he was dropped this year purely because his kicking failed at the top level.

Time to move on from Butcher. I wanted him to make it, but his papers are now fairly marked.
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Kicking 1 goal straight in comparison to Schulz' 1 goal, 1 behind and Westhoff's 1 behind?

His kicking failed in the one game he was selected for?

In round 1, with John Butcher in our team, we lost to the top of the ladder Freo, in Perth, by 7 points. Now I'm not saying he's the reason we came so close, or why we got smashed by a team like Brisbane without him in our team, but he certainly wasn't a liability while he was in. He was far and away our best forward in the first quarter of that game.

Then he got dropped for Jarrad Redden, one of the biggest selection disasters in the history of the game.

Look, I'd love Butcher in the team for the rest of the year, just to see if he can turn it around with some backing from the coaches at AFL level.

But I don't see there being the slightest chance of it happening.

I hope he goes to somewhere like Carlton next year, starts fresh without the pressure of the Port fanbase or the jeering of the SANFL crowds and just plays with freedom again. Against West in the SANFL, they used him as a tall back and he did okay. He then did a more Westhoff-like roaming role from defence to forward in the third quarter and picked up 9 touches, 5 marks and a goal or something like that. When he plays with freedom, with no pressure, the talent is undeniable.

I just don't think we are the team for his talents. The way we play (see: we hate key forwards) just doesn't suit the way he plays.
 
MrSpeaker said:
Hmm, nah.
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How can you possibly argue for selection for a guy that kicks like he does. It destroys team momentum and frustrates the other players when forwards miss easy shots. he's played 24 games for the Power and has shown that his kicking action is that of a 12 year old from American who has never seen a football before. We have younger guys that have a future for the club and they would be much better options, plus with Ryder back we actually don't need another tall in the forward line.
 

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Robbie4PM said:
How can you possibly argue for selection for a guy that kicks like he does. It destroys team momentum and frustrates the other players when forwards miss easy shots. he's played 24 games for the Power and has shown that his kicking action is that of a 12 year old from American who has never seen a football before. We have younger guys that have a future for the club and they would be much better options, plus with Ryder back we actually don't need another tall in the forward line.
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I can answer this question.

Because if were going to play someone who can't kick to save themselves, we'd prefer it to be a 197cm player who can clunk marks and has previously kicked bags at AFL level rather than Mitchel or S.Gray.

Harvey might be able to play AFL standard, but for a quarter or a half. I suspect his inclusion would look similar to Reddens in round 2.
 
BrockBlitz said:
I can answer this question.

Because if were going to play someone who can't kick to save themselves, we'd prefer it to be a 197cm player who can clunk marks and has previously kicked bags at AFL level rather than Mitchel or S.Gray.

Harvey might be able to play AFL standard, but for a quarter or a half. I suspect his inclusion would look similar to Reddens in round 2.
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I think we will agree to disagree on Butch, I will be very annoyed if he puts on the Power jumper again though. I would much rather see a kid or Krak down there but we'll see what happens. If Harvey comes in and only plays a quarter I think that is okay, we are not going to win a premiership this year and we need another option heading into next year.
 
ZingerB said:
Didn't we play a goal square forward against Carlton when we started winning?
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Dylan8 said:
Krakouer was goal square forward for a bit there last week
:cry:
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I mean Jack Hombsch got sent to FF in the third quarter. God I love Papa as much as anyone but he's never kicked a goal! Stop the madness and let's develop another KPF Ken!
 

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If his card is indeed marked, then so is the coaching staff in my books. Nothing to lose by playing Butch over 5 to 6 foot vanilla plodder in the middle. Nothing to lose to play him over Stewart. Nothing to lose to play him when Ryder went down, or rather than recall Redden. Nothing to lose to bring him in when Schulz was clearly hampered by an ankle vs Brisbane. Nothing to lose except faith that the coaches afford each player equal opportunity
 
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edgie said:
If his card is indeed marked, then so is the coaching staff in my books. Nothing to lose by playing Butch over 5 to 6 foot vanilla plodder in the middle. Nothing to lose to play him over Stewart. Nothing to lose to play him when Ryder went down, or rather than recall Redden. Nothing to lose except faith that the coaches afford each player equal opportunity
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And due to all those things being done ahead of picking him, makes me think his cards have been marked.
 
I posted this in a changes thread about a year ago. Still just as relevant today as then.

THE BUTCHER CYCLE

"Get Johnny Butcher into the team, he's just kicked 5 for the Maggies and we desperately need that third tall up forward!"

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"How refreshing was it to have Butch out there today? Only kicked one, should've had a couple more with better kicking, but really took some pressure and allowed Schulzy and the Hoff to get off the chain!"

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"Yeah Butch struggled at times today, but we've got to persevere with him. He is the future after all!"

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"This guy is actually a waste of space. Falls over, can't take a mark, can't kick, just hopeless. Has not actually played a good game in three years!"

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"Thank God Butch got dropped, we looked much slicker and quicker today and 20 goals is proof enough that we don't need that third tall!"

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"Get Johnny Butcher into the team, he's just kicked 5 for the Maggies and we desperately need that third tall up forward!"

277177-tlsnewslandscape.jpg
 
I'm aware that historically, key forwards aren't big players in grand finals, but grand final teams always have a potent key forward attack.

Maybe Ken is trying to skip the middle man, and gave an attack during the season that relies on smalls and midfield goals before big talls, in prep for the grand final? I spose it worked for Choco.

I'm at a loss. Seriously reaching here..
 
TeeKray said:
I posted this in a changes thread about a year ago. Still just as relevant today as then.

THE BUTCHER CYCLE

"Get Johnny Butcher into the team, he's just kicked 5 for the Maggies and we desperately need that third tall up forward!"
"How refreshing was it to have Butch out there today? Only kicked one, should've had a couple more with better kicking, but really took some pressure and allowed Schulzy and the Hoff to get off the chain!"
"Yeah Butch struggled at times today, but we've got to persevere with him. He is the future after all!"
"This guy is actually a waste of space. Falls over, can't take a mark, can't kick, just hopeless. Has not actually played a good game in three years!"
"Thank God Butch got dropped, we looked much slicker and quicker today and 20 goals is proof enough that we don't need that third tall!"
Get Johnny Butcher into the team, he's just kicked 5 for the Maggies and we desperately need that third tall up forward!"
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That is one of the best post's I've ever read and sums up his career and the mismanagement of his development perfectly.

Well done.
 
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