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Opinion Butcher

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Powerade 08 said:
What you are conveniently forgetting is that Butcher has never finished higher than 17th in the Magpies best and fairest and has been outplayed by Salter, Daniel Stewart, Harvey, Bruggerman, Reynolds and anyone else we've tried up forward over the years.

Meanwhile, Kane Mitchell, Sam Gray, Andrew Moore, etc. are all in Magarey form when we bring them into the AFL team.

So that might explain why these guys get more opportunities. Because they actually work for them.
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B&F results are your measure? That's one step down from using Brownlow votes as proof of a player's worth.

How about judging him on his actual output as a forward. He was leading the Ken Farmer medal for half of 2014 and couldn't get a sniff. He kicked 6.2 against Centrals this year and nothing. It was only because we had no other option, apart from deploying the Brett Ebert Offensive, that he played when Dixon went down.

Developing KPFs are on a hiding to nowhere at Port and it's been that way for a while. The likes of Jack Watts and Joe Daniher would barely have seen the light of day had we been given the opportunity to call their name out.

Edit: This issue is bigger than #JesusofMaffra. We bemoan our lack of goalkicking options but refuse to put in the work to make them.
 
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Ando39 said:
I'll happily accept Butch should have been dropped, on one small condition: At his press conference Ken stands there and, with a straight face, says Butch had a worse game than Dixon, and that Cam O'Shea is going to be the player change to lead us out of our slump. I'll bet he couldnt do it.
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I do not think either Dixon or Butcher had good games against Sydney. The difference between the two is that one is being paid 3.1M over five years and cost us a first and second round draft pick so I guess Ken wants to develop a forward line around him.

I would not have dropped Butcher but in reality he had one good game from the three he played. On the other hand the weather was poor in two of those games and it would have been good to give him another chance in dry conditions. I thought Butcher dominated our forward line in the Brisbane game and that is the first time I have seen that from him at AFL level. I thought he may have turned a corner but now I feel as if we will never know.

Cam O'Shea has obviously been bought in for Paul Stewart and to get some additional run. I do not think Ken would defend his selection as form reversing.
 
Pappagallo said:
B&F results are your measure? That's one step down from using Brownlow votes as proof of a player's worth.

How about judging him on his actual output as a forward. He was leading the Ken Farmer medal for half of 2014 and couldn't get a sniff. He kicked 6.2 against Centrals this year and nothing. It was only because we had no other option, apart from deploying the Brett Ebert Offensive, that he played when Dixon went down.

Developing KPFs are on a hiding to nowhere at Port and it's been that way for a while. The likes of Jack Watts and Joe Daniher would barely have seen the light of day had we been given the opportunity to call their name out.

Edit: This issue is bigger than #JesusofMaffra. We bemoan our lack of goalkicking options but refuse to put in the work to make them.
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Yes, you're right. If we cherrypick a bunch of stats, make a bunch of excuses and ignore actual performance, he is a good player and a dead eye dick in front of goal.
 

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Powerade 08 said:
Yes, you're right. If we cherrypick a bunch of stats, make a bunch of excuses and ignore actual performance, he is a good player and a dead eye dick in front of goal.
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You would've needed a cherry picker to reach that B&F stat, where did you even get that?

Look he is what he is. He's not a dead eye dick, no one is arguing that, not even El_Scorcho wearing his John Butcher pyjamas. But he's not the pantomime clown that some make him out to be either.

Take off the blinkers and judge him on his output.
 
How depressing is the first page of this thread? Literally nothing has changed.
 
Can someone explain to me why Butch hasn't got a run of games to see if he can deliver?

I am salty because so many plodders get given game after game after stuffing game to show not much (but at least that have that opportunity to show) but Butch keeps getting the one or two game deal at AFL and then a zillion games in the snafl. Why? I think most posters just want to see him have an opportunity to work his way into form. Ken has invested more faith in far bigger plodders WHY?

Just play him out till the end of the season, give him a decent run and then make a decision.
 
Power Girl said:
Can someone explain to me why Butch hasn't got a run of games to see if he can deliver?

I am salty because so many plodders get given game after game after stuffing game to show not much (but at least that have that opportunity to show) but Butch keeps getting the one or two game deal at AFL and then a zillion games in the snafl. Why? I think most posters just want to see him have an opportunity to work his way into form. Ken has invested more faith in far bigger plodders WHY?

Just play him out till the end of the season, give him a decent run and then make a decision.
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Favouritism. There's no other logical explanation.
 
Power Girl said:
Can someone explain to me why Butch hasn't got a run of games to see if he can deliver?
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He's a forward and over 180cm..?
Considering he was arguably BOG only 2 games ago I can't think of another reason.
 
Power Girl said:
Can someone explain to me why Butch hasn't got a run of games to see if he can deliver?

I am salty because so many plodders get given game after game after stuffing game to show not much (but at least that have that opportunity to show) but Butch keeps getting the one or two game deal at AFL and then a zillion games in the snafl. Why? I think most posters just want to see him have an opportunity to work his way into form. Ken has invested more faith in far bigger plodders WHY?

Just play him out till the end of the season, give him a decent run and then make a decision.
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That is the great conundrum. I totally fail to understand how the likes of Neade and co continued to get games. I'm totally baffled at our selections. It's amateurish sometimes.
 

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Powerade 08 said:
What you are conveniently forgetting is that Butcher has never finished higher than 17th in the Magpies best and fairest and has been outplayed by Salter, Daniel Stewart, Harvey, Bruggerman, Reynolds and anyone else we've tried up forward over the years.
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You're ****ing mental if you think salter, d stew , Harvey , bruggerman and Reynolds have outplayed butcher.


If that is your stance then I wont even bother trying to argue reason with you, all I can do is try to protect others from buying your nonsense.
 
I don't necessarily think he'd get picked up elsewhere or perform but that's on us, IMO. A wasted talent - there's more to being a forward than kicking goals and he offers/could have offered a lot to our forward line, particularly when we've been so scarce for tall forwards. And players who are shite kicks for goal have still turned out to be very handy to elite forwards.
 
Who is an inaccurate elite KPF?
 

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Power Girl said:
Can someone explain to me why Butch hasn't got a run of games to see if he can deliver?

I am salty because so many plodders get given game after game after stuffing game to show not much (but at least that have that opportunity to show) but Butch keeps getting the one or two game deal at AFL and then a zillion games in the snafl. Why? I think most posters just want to see him have an opportunity to work his way into form. Ken has invested more faith in far bigger plodders WHY?

Just play him out till the end of the season, give him a decent run and then make a decision.
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Multiple reasons probably...........

He's old enough that he should be becoming consistent at SANFL level, let alone AFL level.
His job is to mark the ball and kick it through the big posts, he struggles majorly with one of those things.

The guy has had runs of games, he hasn't been able to make a position his even though we've been lacking in the KPF region until recently. I'd love to see him succeed as much as anyone but it's probably time to realise it won't happen. If we can't trade him then rookie him and let him earn his spot back, but given the season is done for us we may as well see how some of the untried guys go.
 
Portia said:
Who is an inaccurate elite KPF?
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Franklin, do you consider him elite? 56% in 2008 (113 goals), 51% in 2012 (69 goals)
Nick Riewoldt has had yips for multiple seasons including the dominant years. 53% in the drawn grand final year.

both have career averages at about 59%.

say even if Butcher had 10 out on the fulls and including them in his scoring shots, statistically he'd still be even with these
 
Tredders was just over 60% goals:points over his career. Even Matthew Lloyd only kicked at 68% as a full time FF. For a centre half forward that works up the ground, which Franklin and Riewoldt both are, I wouldn't say either were particularly inaccurate.

Would agree with liking to see that stat for set shots in 35m
 
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