Calling all JR bashers - Apology thread.

[BlueBelle]

You did, and that's good.

But it was a nice little disclaimer you added in when you insinuated that he should only get full credit for the performance if he performs consistently

I didn't insinuate that at all! All I said was I think the thread is premature calling for an apology on the back of one good game

 

[len_jet]

Struggled to get a game at Melbourne? You must be joking mate.

Johnstone played 15 games last year and was injured for the remainder of those games with a troublesome achilles tendon injury. He wasn't offloaded by Melbourne because he was a bad player - don't be so narrow minded as to think that.

Look, I don't like Travis but to say that he isn't a class midfielder when on song is a ludicrous statement which does him a terrible injustice. For many a year we've seen what he can do to opposition sides at his best, and we even witnessed that first hand at the Telstra Dome earlier this year when he absolutely annihilated us.

Need I say more... two of the most contradicting comments ever... how can on be a "bad player" in a cellar dwelling side but be a class midfielder "when on song". I think you need to get your opinions straight before you try and impose them on people. Mine is that TJ is a nothing player, he was drafted very high (number 1 from memory) and has done not a great deal. While at Melbourne he was always crusified for his laziness which resulted in inconsitent games and very ordinary skills. When shown no respect and under virtually no pressure yeah sure he can carve a team up, what player cant?

If you are suggesting that guys like Dalziell and Rischitelli are drawing more attention from the opposition than TJ then you may as well give up as you have little clue what you are on about. If you were to ask the coaches on whether they would put more attention into stopping Bradd Dalziell and Michael Rischitelli than they would into stopping Travis Johnstone, I'd bet a pretty hefty amount that they would say, most definitely, the latter.

Little clue... oh dear... my dear Jeremias... while you try to find flaws in my arguments you choose to select two young blokes who are dominating the game at the moment in rischitelli and dalziell. Why did you not acknowledge Black or Power?

You seem to berate other people for possesing "narrow mindedness yet you yourself must be one who shelters themselves from watching nothing more than Carlton games! Dalziell since his debut has been dominate for the Lions. He has average 27 touches in 6 career AFL matches while Rischtelli is already a dominate player. Both players may be shown no respect regularly by opposition coaches but like Rhys Palmer they continue to carve up teams. The fact that they are playing for Brisbane leads me to believe you are not ofay of their efforts for that reason.

Why are people so hell-bent on bringing up what pick a player was selected at in the draft as any sort of get-out clause for crediting a player for a good performance?

Because you are trying to heap praise on him for a negating taggin role. How many times do we need to tell you this... Name another high draft pick that is now playing this role. When you compare him to the rest of the class that was taken the same year, even Tambling has shown more, this from me who if you read my posts is one of the biggest Tambling be-raters going around!

If you are telling me that we should be cutting a tagger from the list because he has no offensive side to his game then you seriously have rocks in your head.

No, no rocks... we have Jordan Bannister already. There is more upside with Bannister (besides his luck with injuries) than with JR.

Don't bother bringing up a comparison between the two as that is not what I'm here to do. Ling is a top quality player and tagger, Russell is nothing more than a plodder at the moment and I'm more than happy to admit that. But why does that exclude him from being credited with an excellent performance from fans? I dare say it's got something to do with negative connotations that the name JR brings with it, something which is quite ridiculous.

Why not? You are trying to heap praise on a bloke for playing one good game as a negating tagger. I am merely trying to point out that his game was nothing more than half decent.

Connotations... I remember a year or two ago Wiggins was under receiving the same wraps. He has managed to shake that tag and become a valued player. While not blessed with huge amounts of skill he simply concentrates on the basics... nothing flashy... just present, mark... go back from the mark as to kick over it... and hit the next target. When this all breaks down, get your man, mind your man and tackle hard when you can... try your heart out. He has won many over. You cant ask for more.

 

[Jeremias]

I didn't insinuate that at all! All I said was I think the thread is premature calling for an apology on the back of one good game

Yet people are so quick to jump on his back after 1 bad game. Hmmmm

It's sort of incredible that people refuse to mention a positive when it happens but continue to harp on about a negative well after the event itself.

JR played well. Very well. Yet people don't give him the credit he deserves because of some games he underperformed in earlier in the season.

Amazing.

 

[len_jet]

Yet people are so quick to jump on his back after 1 bad game. Hmmmm

It's sort of incredible that people refuse to mention a positive when it happens but continue to harp on about a negative well after the event itself.

JR played well. Very well. Yet people don't give him the credit he deserves because of some games he underperformed in earlier in the season.

Amazing.

one half decent game and you demand apologies? how about he play two or three consistent games?

just to simplfy things, as this may answer your major concern... if we were to rate JR's games simply with a 1 for a decent game, and a -1 for a shocker... he would be at about -5 to -10 for this year...

 

[BlueBelle]

Yet people are so quick to jump on his back after 1 bad game. Hmmmm

It's sort of incredible that people refuse to mention a positive when it happens but continue to harp on about a negative well after the event itself.

JR played well. Very well. Yet people don't give him the credit he deserves because of some games he underperformed in earlier in the season.

Amazing.

One bad game? You have got to be kidding me!

Don't quote me and say people don't give credit when I have given him credit for his effort last night.

Whilst he played well last night, do you think one good game warrants an apology?

 

[len_jet]

One bad game? You have got to be kidding me!

Don't quote me and say people don't give credit when I have given him credit for his effort last night.

Whilst he played well last night, do you think one good game warrants an apology?

well apparently one half decent game does... I fear for the regular JR bashers if he played one good game... J would be hunting them down for their collective heads!

 

[Jeremias]

Need I say more... two of the most contradicting comments ever... how can on be a "bad player" in a cellar dwelling side but be a class midfielder "when on song". I think you need to get your opinions straight before you try and impose them on people. Mine is that TJ is a nothing player, he was drafted very high (number 1 from memory) and has done not a great deal. While at Melbourne he was always crusified for his laziness which resulted in inconsitent games and very ordinary skills. When shown no respect and under virtually no pressure yeah sure he can carve a team up, what player cant?

Read it again - you completely misinterpreted my post.

I said that the reason why he was let go wasn't because he is a bad player (because he isn't!!!) but rather because of other factors.

Little clue... oh dear... my dear Jeremias... while you try to find flaws in my arguments you choose to select two young blokes who are dominating the game at the moment in rischitelli and dalziell. Why did you not acknowledge Black or Power?

Because you were right about Black and Power. Sorry, should have mentioned them but didn't because I thought it was pretty obvious. I had no issue with you bringing up Black and Power so focussed on Rischitelli and Dalziell which I had the obvious problem with.

You seem to berate other people for possesing "narrow mindedness yet you yourself must be one who shelters themselves from watching nothing more than Carlton games! Dalziell since his debut has been dominate for the Lions. He has average 27 touches in 6 career AFL matches while Rischtelli is already a dominate player. Both players may be shown no respect regularly by opposition coaches but like Rhys Palmer they continue to carve up teams. The fact that they are playing for Brisbane leads me to believe you are not ofay of their efforts for that reason.

A few points:

1. Palmer gets tagged week in, week out. Don't compare him to the 2 Brisbane boys because their circumstances are completely different. The midfields that surround them have a huge bearing on whether or not they gett tagged.

2. Ofay? Do you mean au fait? As in having knowledge about a particular area? Or did you really mean that I'm not a derogatory name for a white person of their efforts?

3. Accuse me of many things, by all means. But don't tell me that I don't watch football outside of Carlton games. I think you'll find that that is a little bit of fabricated nonsense

Because you are trying to heap praise on him for a negating taggin role. How many times do we need to tell you this... Name another high draft pick that is now playing this role. When you compare him to the rest of the class that was taken the same year, even Tambling has shown more, this from me who if you read my posts is one of the biggest Tambling be-raters going around!

Lynden Dunn was taken around the same pick as JR and is tagging. That's an example for you of another high draft pick that is now playing a tagging role. Just because someone was a high draft pick doesn't mean they are a failure of a player if they become nothing more than a tagger.

You would expect Tambling to have shown more than JR, being the higher draft pick and all, and I'm not sure where you get the impression that I was suggesting otherwise.

No, no rocks... we have Jordan Bannister already. There is more upside with Bannister (besides his luck with injuries) than with JR.

So there's only room for 1 shut down player in every side then? What complete and utter rubbish.

Why not? You are trying to heap praise on a bloke for playing one good game as a negating tagger. I am merely trying to point out that his game was nothing more than half decent.

I think you are selling JR severely short here by saying it was only half decent. There's not much more that the coaches would have asked from him last night, I wouldn't have thought. His clear role was to stop Johnstone (forget whether or not you rate him) and he did that completely. Task done = good game, IMO.

Connotations... I remember a year or two ago Wiggins was under receiving the same wraps. He has managed to shake that tag and become a valued player. While not blessed with huge amounts of skill he simply concentrates on the basics... nothing flashy... just present, mark... go back from the mark as to kick over it... and hit the next target. When this all breaks down, get your man, mind your man and tackle hard when you can... try your heart out. He has won many over. You cant ask for more.

I agree with you about Wiggins, but once again, comparing him to Wiggins is a bit silly. How many years has Wiggo been on the list? How old is he? And what about JR? Let's face it, if we give JR as long on the list as we have done for Wiggo then there's going to be a huge increase in inpatients in mental institutions that support Carlton over the next few years.

It took Wiggo a good 7 years to show his worth and he has won our hearts over. Would you be willing to afford that luxury to JR? Somehow, I doubt it.

Not sure what else you could have asked realistically from JR last night, keeping his prescribed role in mind.

 

[Jeremias]

one half decent game and you demand apologies? how about he play two or three consistent games?

See...this is the problem I have. Why does he need consistency before he gets some credit and recognition for his efforts? If he comes out and has a shocker next week, are you going to say that he wasn't good against the Lions the week before?

just to simplfy things, as this may answer your major concern... if we were to rate JR's games simply with a 1 for a decent game, and a -1 for a shocker... he would be at about -5 to -10 for this year...

That's pretty irrelevant, but yes, I agree. I haven't once said I like JR. Nor have I said that he's a good player. Nor have I said that he is having a good season. But I'm prepared to say he was very good last night and subsequently prepared to give him credit for it. It's not that hard to follow suit.

 

[BLUE BLEEDING]

could russell become a permanent tagger?
he has great endurance, tackling and intensity.
would love to see him more in the position and claim good scalps if he can.

 

[Jeremias]

One bad game? You have got to be kidding me!

When I typed "1", I meant "a". I was in no way saying he hasn't played more than 1 bad game this season

Don't quote me and say people don't give credit when I have given him credit for his effort last night.

Whilst he played well last night, do you think one good game warrants an apology?

Read it again, BG. I said you gave him credit, and commended you on that.

But in a way, you have included a disclaimer. He shouldn't have to perform well a few games in a row before geting the credit and recognition he deserves on the back of a very good game.

 

[Jeremias]

could russell become a permanent tagger?
he has great endurance, tackling and intensity.
would love to see him more in the position and claim good scalps if he can.

But people will always fall back on the fact that he was a top 10 draft pick in a draft that included Buddy, Roughead, Deledio and Griffen, and therefore say that he should be more than just a tagger, no matter how good he turns out to be in that role.

 

[BlueBelle]

When I typed "1", I meant "a". I was in no way saying he hasn't played more than 1 bad game this season



Read it again, BG. I said you gave him credit, and commended you on that.

But in a way, you have included a disclaimer. He shouldn't have to perform well a few games in a row before geting the credit and recognition he deserves on the back of a very good game.

But to get an apology he should surely?

 

[thylacine60]

Phone?

 

[BlueYoss]

I'm pretty sure you lost all your credibility when you said that Richard Tambling is dominating the AFL.

While Tambling may be some way from dominating the AFL, the (widely accepted) notion that he is among the biggest disappointments/underperformers/draft blunders of recent times (as your post not-so-subtly alludes to) is, for the most part, on account of the fact that he was picked ahead of Buddy in that 2004 draft.

But I would have thought that

blaming him for where we took him in the draft is just silly.

FWIW I'm no JR basher (or any other player in Navy Blue for that matter). I've said many times that he is one of our best players when he doesn't have the ball, and I mean that as genuine acknowledgement of his work off the ball, not a backhanded swipe at his disposal.

He has the physical attributes and basic football skills to make it. His disposal issues, like Fish and Murph's yips this year, is 100% between the ears. If he can sort out his confidence over time (and confidence always comes, in the absence of any other catalyst, with age/maturity/time) he'll be quite a handy player for us.

And until that happens, he will continue to frustrate supporters.

And as long as so many supporters are so frustrated with him, a thread like this is invariably a red rag to those bulls.

 

[thylacine60]

While Tambling may be some way from dominating the AFL, the (widely accepted) notion that he is among the biggest disappointments/underperformers/draft blunders of recent times (as your post not-so-subtly alludes to) is, for the most part, on account of the fact that he was picked ahead of Buddy in that 2004 draft.

But I would have thought that





FWIW I'm no JR basher (or any other player in Navy Blue for that matter). I've said many times that he is one of our best players when he doesn't have the ball, and I mean that as genuine acknowledgement of his work off the ball, not a backhanded swipe at his disposal.

He has the physical attributes and basic football skills to make it. His disposal issues, like Fish and Murph's yips this year, is 100% between the ears. If he can sort out his confidence over time (and confidence always comes, in the absence of any other catalyst, with age/maturity/time) he'll be quite a handy player for us.

And until that happens, he will continue to frustrate supporters.

And as long as so many supporters are so frustrated with him, a thread like this is invariably a red rag to those bulls.

Logic. Footy Forum closure justification.

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

Where are all the JR bashers mentioning how shit he is and how he should be banished to the Bullants reserves, never to be seen again?

Where are all the JR bashers who after each and every Carlton loss are the ones to single him out before any other player?

Where are all the JR bashers that call for his head if he doesn't get many touches?

This is a thread for the likes of CarltonFan, legendtofski, C4 etc., who, after each and every loss come on this board, after having barely been sighted mid-week, with the sole purpose of bagging JR.

Let's see what you are made of. Come in here and post your apologies to a kid that is trying to find his feet in the big league. Are you man enough, or will you be too scared to admit you are wrong and hide behind your screens, only to re-appear after JR's next game.

Russell was absolutely fantastic last night. Was clearly given a specific role by the coaching staff to tag Travis Johnstone out of the game, and he did it brilliantly. It's called sacrificing your game for the benefit of the team, and that's exactly what he did. TJ was hardly seen without JR right behind him or already with his hands around Johnstone readying himself for a tackle.

I had him down as one of our best on the night without a doubt because he stuck to his guns all game and didn't take a backwards step from fulfilling the role he was assigned.

Well done JR

Apologise for JR being average????

 

[pansies]

Wow JR shut down probably the most unaccountable player in the afl. Woopty do.

If that is all he can do then he has serious problems because that is not going to be good enough. He must get better and frankly his performances have not really improved that much throughout the year. Yes he has played a couple of very good quarters here or there but if all he is going to be is a one dimensional tagger then his time will be limited.

And to say he was one of our best last night is just deluded. I would say almost everyone was better than him bar Anderson, Armfield and Hampson. And even they may have been better. Hampson did ok when he was in the ruck and Anderson was put his body on the line at the end to stop Brown.

Having said that he may improve but I fear time is running out for him.

Oh and how about that handball in the last. Under no pressure yet again he passes it straight to the opposition and almost results in a direct goal. Classic Russell.

 

[Big Red is back]

Lets not get carried away stopping T.J is harldy a big result, the main reason he was given the flick from the D's was becasue whenever he was manned up he went missing.

Until Russell starts winning more of the ball and using it better I remain highly concerned. I suspect had he not been a top 10 pick he would be delisted.

So far I give his season a 3 out of 10 he has been very lucky to keep getting a game and has showed very little with the exception of the last quarter v Port.

Hoops well done and suspect had he played all yr we would be playing finals

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Why can't we have a thread commending JR on his efforts in 1 game when we seem to have plenty of threads directly bagging him after a bad quarter here and there, let alone a bad game?

Is that what this thread is about J? I could have sworn that you started it to bait posters who criticise JR.

You were never going to get a JR praise thread when you start out abusing those that are critical of him.

Both sides of these arguments could be a little more constructive if they are to meet in the middle somewhere.

 

[Silvagnis]

Apologise for JR being average????

Whose job is to apologise for you being below average when it comes to judging footballers?

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=138845

Im a huge fan of this kid.
Great speed, huge leap and freakish skill. Lacks intensity .
Anyone want to punt on where he will go?

 

[Alpha1]

Lol just goes to show how crap he has been that he had a average game and you want us to apologies to him for calling him crap? You have to be kidding, you obviously are.

 

[thegreenmachine]

First of all, I would like to give praise and applaud JR's efforts last night. Excellent stuff.
Secondly, I very rarely come on here and bag out the Carlton players, however when I do I feel I am justified in doing so and am on most occassions proven to be correct.
Thirdly, he is playing for his career still in the Navy Blue jumper and needs to back up this performance next week.
Fourth, we thought he turned the corner, as some people would have mentioned, against Port Adelaide midway through the year.
And lastly, I have no reason to apologize for the moment at least.
Thank you all.

 

[Bluebear]

You dont pick a player in the first round of a draft to have him tagging four years on and not finding the ball himself. He is SHIT

So it's Russ' fault we picked him in the top 10?

Surely all he can do is go out there and do his best. He shutdown the guy who was BOG against us last time in Johnstone.
Why isn't that enough?

Whatever your problems are with wherew he was taken.........should be addressed in a thread called "Our recruiting".........have a crack at them.

 

[HBF]

JR did a good job last night, but let's not get too carried away. Anyone who plays HF on a fairly regular basis that has kicked 3.13 this year, and makes some horendous turnovers, still has a bit to prove in my eyes.

If he can straighten up his kicking, and even contribute 15-20 goals a year, and limit the amount of turnovers in his game, then I might come around. But please J, one or two games over the journey doesn't prove squat.

 

[BlueWorld]

JR did a good job last night, but let's not get too carried away. Anyone who plays HF on a fairly regular basis that has kicked 3.13 this year, and makes some horendous turnovers, still has a bit to prove in my eyes.

If he can straighten up his kicking, and even contribute 15-20 goals a year, and limit the amount of turnovers in his game, then I might come around. But please J, one or two games over the journey doesn't prove squat.

oh TG- 3 goals for the year. Other players can kick 3.0 in one quarter!