List Mgmt. Cam Joyce

[The Dingrel]

I think we could absolutely have another crack at a flag in 3-4 years. A large portion of our best 22 will be hitting their peak years at about that time, coupled in with some of our kids coming on and throw in a free agent or two. I'm very optimistic about our future

Cheers Brad, I'm glad you think so!

 

[Phillyroo]

His last few drafts have been great. 2010 & 2011 stand out as very ordinary. And I never liked Cunnington at pick 5 in 2009 either. I understand why we went with an all in approach for 2016.

Overall I'd say that Cam Joyce isn't the problem as such, and I'm pretty happy with him.

One issue is the lack of superstars and I know people will say we haven't been drafting high enough to get stars. But too often our picks feel safe. I'd like to see him take a few more risks with draft selections but maybe that will come as we get a few more picks in the next couple of years.

 

[Kciza]

Cheers Brad, I'm glad you think so!

That's right, how dare I believe in our football club and hope that we can turn things around quickly. I should be miserable and unhappy with the place.

 

[Kciza]

Only Talia is better. Sheppard not too far behind.

 

[generalleftfield]

Just a little further down...

 

[Only Forwards]

Fyfe would have been worth it with the benefit of hindsight however almost every other recruiter passed on him as well.

 

[Only Forwards]

Just a little further down...

Are you serious?

In hindsight maybe, basically every other club had a shot before he was taken and he was looked over. The idea that we missed one because a guy went 14 picks after we went turned out to be a gun is absurd.

 

[generalleftfield]

Fyfe would have been worth it with the benefit of hindsight however almost every other recruiter passed on him as well.

You're right, you can only tell these things with hindsight. But that doesn't change the fact that when he was drafted Cunnington was a player with limited upside.

 

[Event Horizon]

Anyone who watched our last VFL match against Footscray would have been more than a little concerned about the state of the list. Footscray would have also been affected by injuries to the senior team, yet looked like a team from a different league.

Some tough decisions are needed and not just delisting the older players.

 

[dus]

Cunnington won a BnF. Hardly call it a dud pick, even in hindsight.

Joyce has a big job to do in the next 2 years. Whether he's up to it I don't know.

I don't want any old free agents for at least 3 years.

 

[Only Forwards]

You're right, you can only tell these things with hindsight. But that doesn't change the fact that when he was drafted Cunnington was a player with limited upside.

He won a BNF.

What do you actually want out of a player?

 

[generalleftfield]

Are you serious?

In hindsight maybe, basically every other club had a shot before he was taken and he was looked over. The idea that we missed one because a guy went 14 picks after we went turned out to be a gun is absurd.

So whats the limit? I just said I wasn't happy with the pick. Its not really about hindsight it has to do with Cunnington the player, his improvement since he got to the AFL has been limited.

 

[Only Forwards]

So whats the limit? I just said I wasn't happy with the pick. Its not really about hindsight it has to do with Cunnington the player, his improvement since he got to the AFL has been limited.

There are only 3 players recruited in the last 10 years to be Syd Barker medallists.

06 Goldy
07 Thompson
09 Cunnington

If you're looking for failed development of draftees you're looking at the wrong one.

Ziebell, Atley, McKenzie (the cat), Garner (Mr Invisible because he's never f***ing out there)

Would crave some of the consistency that Cunnington has had.

 

[longlivenmfc]

Hang on, I thought we had the greatest list ever and it's all Brad's fault that we're not winning? Don't tell me that maybe the cattle aren't up to scratch? Can I keep blaming Brad?

 

[generalleftfield]

He won a BNF.

What do you actually want out of a player?

Cunnington is a good average footballer, unable to break a game open, he's not damaging by foot and he's not able to lift his teammates. BNF is not something I'd use to judge football talent.

 

[generalleftfield]

There are only 3 players recruited in the last 10 years to be Syd Barker medallists.

06 Goldy
07 Thompson
09 Cunnington

If you're looking for failed development of draftees you're looking at the wrong one.

Ziebell, Atley, McKenzie (the cat), Garner (Mr Invisible because he's never f***ing out there)

Would crave some of the consistency that Cunnington has had.

I wasn't suggesting anything about our development. I don't think Cunnington can be developed beyond where he is at.

 

[Only Forwards]

Cunnington is a good average footballer, unable to break a game open, he's not damaging by foot and he's not able to lift his teammates. BNF is not something I'd use to judge football talent.

Rightio then, internal voting based upon a seasons output of where players sit relative to each other is not an equitable way of judging a players out put.

We could have gone for Fyfe 15 picks after the one we used but didn't, we only selected the most professional player in the draft sans the kid that went number 1.

I was fortunate enough to go to that draft and just by the by recruiters from a very successful club had him going at pick 3.

Believe or not, I don't really care but the revisionist bullshit that is being spouted in here is ridiculous.

 

[generalleftfield]

Rightio then, internal voting based upon a seasons output of where players sit relative to each other is not an equitable way of judging a players out put.

We could have gone for Fyfe 15 picks after the one we used but didn't, we only selected the most professional player in the draft sans the kid that went number 1.

I was fortunate enough to go to that draft and just by the by recruiters from a very successful club had him going at pick 3.

Believe or not, I don't really care but the revisionist bullshit that is being spouted in here is ridiculous.

Good average footballer.

 

[Only Forwards]

I wasn't suggesting anything about our development. I don't think Cunnington can be developed beyond where he is at.

We should sack the entire recruitment team because in 2011they didn't recruit Luke Dalhaus I mean no other club did either in the main draft but f*** we missed one and I wanna be angry.

 

[Viper2Jester]

And I never liked Cunnington at pick 5 in 2009 either.

Really? Would have thought in a shocking draft we have done very well out of it.

Its easy to look at numbers and think "could have done better", but that is only relative to who was available.

Outside Fyfe and Talia (maybe Gunston and Carlisle) there is not one other player on that list I'd have before Cunnington - even acknowledging he has had an ordinary year. Plenty of other clubs made much worse picks than us...

Macmillan was also a great pick in hindsight relative to the spuds taken around him.

Priority 1 Tom Scully Dandenong Stingrays TAC Cup Melbourne
1 2 Jack Trengove Sturt SANFL Melbourne
1 3 Dustin Martin Bendigo Pioneers TAC Cup Richmond
1 4 Anthony Morabito Peel WAFL Fremantle
1 5 Ben Cunnington Geelong Falcons TAC Cup North Melbourne
1 6 Gary Rohan Geelong Falcons TAC Cup Sydney
1 7 Brad Sheppard East Fremantle WAFL West Coast
1 8 John Butcher Gippsland Power TAC Cup Port Adelaide
1 9 Andrew Moore Eastern Ranges TAC Cup Port Adelaide
1 10 Jake Melksham Calder Cannons TAC Cup Essendon
1 11 Jordan Gysberts Eastern Ranges TAC Cup Melbourne
1 12 Kane Lucas East Fremantle WAFL Carlton
1 13 Daniel Talia Calder Cannons TAC Cup Adelaide
1 14 Lewis Jetta Swan Districts WAFL Sydney
1 15 Christian Howard Glenelg SANFL Western Bulldogs
1 16 Jasper McMillan-Pittard Geelong Falcons TAC Cup Port Adelaide
1 17 Daniel Menzel Central District SANFL Geelong
2 18 Luke Tapscott North Adelaide SANFL Melbourne
2 19 Benjamin Griffiths Eastern Ranges TAC Cup Richmond
2 20 Nathan Fyfe Claremont WAFL Fremantle
2 21 Ryan Bastinac Dandenong Stingrays TAC Cup North Melbourne
2 22 Gerrick Weedon Claremont WAFL West Coast
2 23 Koby Stevens Gippsland Power TAC Cup West Coast
2 24 Jake Carlisle Calder Cannons TAC Cup Essendon
2 25 Aaron Black Peel WAFL North Melbourne
2 26 Travis Colyer Claremont WAFL Essendon
2 27 Callum Bartlett Geelong Falcons TAC Cup Brisbane Lions
2 28 Mitch Duncan East Perth WAFL Geelong
2 29 Jack Gunston Sandringham Dragons TAC Cup Adelaide
2 30 Luke Ball St Kilda AFL Collingwood

 

[generalleftfield]

We should sack the entire recruitment team because in 2011they didn't recruit Luke Dalhaus I mean no other club did either in the main draft but f*** we missed one and I wanna be angry.

Mate did you even read my original post? I said "And I never liked Cunnington at pick 5 in 2009" hardly trying to burn the place down.

 

[ozzyoslo]

I think this is Bryce Lewis domain.

In fact there are arguments that he has focused on the wrong type of player........introverts often don't make the best footballers. We have a few on our list, maybe too many.

 

[generalleftfield]

In fact there are arguments that he has focused on the wrong type of player........introverts often don't make the best footballers. We have a few on our list, maybe too many.

Agree completely with this. And its why I think we have struggled to turn games/seasons around. (I know there are other factors including a major one in coaching) You do need to get the personality mix right, but there seems to be very few superstar introverts.

 

[Only Forwards]

Mate did you even read my original post? I said "And I never liked Cunnington at pick 5 in 2009" hardly trying to burn the place down.

You go on to say that we should have picked up a guy that wasn't rated at the time by basically any recruiter to go that high.

Not wanting Cunnington at pick 5 is one thing, your alternative not being picked up by 14 other recruiters says that despite history showing Fyfe as being a better pick the idea that we were ridiculously far off it because we didn't take him is absurd.

If we could recruit with the benefit of hindsight wed win every flag every year.

 

[generalleftfield]

You go on to say that we should have picked up a guy that wasn't rated at the time by basically any recruiter to go that high.

Not wanting Cunnington at pick 5 is one thing, your alternative not being picked up by 14 other recruiters says that despite history showing Fyfe as being a better pick the idea that we were ridiculously far off it because we didn't take him is absurd.

If we could recruit with the benefit of hindsight wed win every flag every year.

Mate I just posted that as a joke. I was just making general comment about Cam Joyce and recruiting. Not sure why you made it about Cunnington.