Opinion Cameron Guthrie

[Partridge]

Wouldn't get suspended if he hadn't had the Baker points, especially for things he shouldn't have got suspended for anyway, eg the outrageous Sydney travesty, which then cost him the next time, etc, etc.

Wouldn't have been a travesty if he didn't do it in the first place. The week before finals too.

 

[FredLeDeux]

Wouldn't have been a travesty if he didn't do it in the first place. The week before finals too.

Absolute nonsense, it was a perfectly routine piece of teamwork, blocking Selwood's taqger in exactly the same way Ling used to be blocked week in week out, and exactly the same way half a dozen blokes did in the next season without being found guilty (with head-high hits in some cases, unlike Johnson's hip and shoulder), let alone penalised. He simply did nothing wrong, and he did nothing that he or anyone else could reasonably have expected to be reported for. He was found guilty because of his record, not on the facts, a fundamental mistake in the decision-making process which the MRP has made more than once.

 

[Partridge]

Absolute nonsense, it was a perfectly routine piece of teamwork, blocking Selwood's taqger in exactly the same way Ling used to be blocked week in week out, and exactly the same way half a dozen blokes did in the next season without being found guilty (with head-high hits in some cases, unlike Johnson's hip and shoulder), let alone penalised. He simply did nothing wrong, and he did nothing that he or anyone else could reasonably have expected to be reported for. He was found guilty because of his record, not on the facts, a fundamental mistake in the decision-making process which the MRP has made more than once.

Blocking Selwood's tagger? Dig up some footage and see how far away the ball was. Was it soft? Yes. It was also idiotic and unnecessary.

 

[El Dubya]

Blocking Selwood's tagger? Dig up some footage and see how far away the ball was. Was it soft? Yes. It was also idiotic and unnecessary.

Soft as butter but those were the rules and he should have adjusted to them.

 

[FredLeDeux]

Blocking Selwood's tagger? Dig up some footage and see how far away the ball was. Was it soft? Yes. It was also idiotic and unnecessary.

He was blocking Selwood's tagger, who had fallen a fair way behind him. The vision clearly shows Selwood disappearing in the distance.

Soft as butter but those were the rules and he should have adjusted to them.

They weren't the rules before then for anyone else.
They haven't been the rules since then for anyone else, including the half dozen blokes let off for similar but worse incidents last year.

He did nothing wrong.
He could not reasonably have expected to get reported for it, so he did nothing wrong.
And even then, he only got time because of the failure - in fact, refusal, because he was expressly asked to intervene - of the umpire to do his job and stop Baker, meaning that Johnson had to protect himself.

The Ballantyne and Jones cases were a different kettle of fish, they were sheer stupidity on his part. You both actually have a plausible case to argue there. Though from memory he wouldn't have copped time for Ballantyne either, if it hadn't been for Baker + incompetent umpire and Hanneberry + incompetent MRP.

 

[Partridge]

He was blocking Selwood's tagger, who had fallen a fair way behind him. The vision clearly shows Selwood disappearing in the distance.

Cool. So it was in play then.

 

[Hood007]

They weren't the rules before then for anyone else.
They haven't been the rules since then for anyone else, including the half dozen blokes let off for similar but worse incidents last year.

Ballantyne got 2 on Chappy at the start of the 2012.
And Tom Rockliff literally got done yesterday.
They're both reasonably similar aren't they..?

 

[Teriyakicat]

Cool. So it was in play then.

I guess the point of the argument is that it probably was more a free downfield for a block off the ball than a reportable incident.

Was going to comment on the comment "They weren't the rules before then for anyone else.
They haven't been the rules since then for anyone else, including the half dozen blokes let off for similar but worse incidents last year."

which brought to mind the Selwood vs Selwood 'interfering with an injured (or possibly injured) player'. How many times has that rule been dragged out? Maybe twice? both vs Geelong? Or did we get a let off on one of them?

 

[Teriyakicat]

I think we could argue this all day- umpiring, MRP, etc.- all we ask is for consistency but, despite all the hot air coming from AFL HO, things look like they're going to be much the same. Some consultant will, one day, be paid thousands of dollars to make little video clips of each example of each ruling, so the MRP can penalise players more consistently. Until the MRP start looking at every second played from every game, they are never going to be given the whole story to make their rulings and incidents such as the Mitchell vs Taylor Hunt will always slip through the cracks- hopefully Mitchell will never win a Brownlow until he starts playing fairly.

 

[Partridge]

I guess the point of the argument is that it probably was more a free downfield for a block off the ball than a reportable incident.

Was going to comment on the comment "They weren't the rules before then for anyone else.
They haven't been the rules since then for anyone else, including the half dozen blokes let off for similar but worse incidents last year."

which brought to mind the Selwood vs Selwood 'interfering with an injured (or possibly injured) player'. How many times has that rule been dragged out? Maybe twice? both vs Geelong? Or did we get a let off on one of them?

Sure, and I get what you're saying. I also agree that both incidents (Johnson on Hannebery, Selwood on Selwood) are ridiculously soft. That isn't the issue and never was. The issue is Johnson doesn't learn. There's only one sure way to avoid problems like this, don't do them in the first place. That's entirely what I consider the issue to be.

 

[Teriyakicat]

Sure, and I get what you're saying. I also agree that both incidents (Johnson on Hannebery, Selwood on Selwood) are ridiculously soft. That isn't the issue and never was. The issue is Johnson doesn't learn. There's only one sure way to avoid problems like this, don't do them in the first place. That's entirely what I consider the issue to be.

I can see where you're coming from, Partridge- but I feel that Johnson just has a brain fade sometimes and that his offences really aren't consistently reported or penalised- soft, as you said. However he has been in the system for a long time and what was acceptable 10? years ago may not be now but it is easy to fall back into old ways, when all you're thinking of is positioning of your teammates, coaching on field (as he does) and see ball, get ball. Under pressure, a lot of people will go back to what has been natural for them. Johnny-come-lately blocks and bumps to me are forgiveable (though I don't like them from either team) but intentional clips under the ear, stomach punches, kidney punches, throat jabs, etc. are NOT and I have never thought of Stevie J as a malicious player. I'm prepared to accept his mistakes as part of what makes him a great player- even though they make me really really irate at times!!

 

[FredLeDeux]

Ballantyne got 2 on Chappy at the start of the 2012.
And Tom Rockliff literally got done yesterday.
They're both reasonably similar aren't they..?

No, they were an elbow by Ballantyne and high by Rockliff, Johnson's was a simple hip and shoulder, free kickable because it was behind play. A free kick that is also never paid, incidentally, or Johnson's goal tally would be in 4 figure.

 

[David the Cat]

Boy…theres some squeaky clean ex-players on this board. Talk about holier than thou…..

I considered myself ultra clean as a footballer, but threw a few I recall in retaliation, and was just lucky not to get caught. (Reported once in 130 games and exonerated)

Of course theres 3 umpires these days….but sometimes (like the Baker incident) you just have to act….

Yes…SJ has done a couple of silly things….but we don't know the lead up to them, or exactly what motivated him to act…..like Rockliff for example....he is after all not what one would call a hard man enforcer type. He's a ball player….

I saw the Rockliff incident…I am sure Sam Mitchell was an innocent party and wouldn't have dome anything to provoke it

Be that as it may, it doesn't hurt our chances at the Gabba……thanks Sam

 

[Willo_]

Boy…theres some squeaky clean ex-players on this board. Talk about holier than thou…..

I considered myself ultra clean as a footballer, but threw a few I recall in retaliation, and was just lucky not to get caught. (Reported once in 130 games and exonerated)

Of course theres 3 umpires these days….but sometimes (like the Baker incident) you just have to act….

Yes…SJ has done a couple of silly things….but we don't know the lead up to them, or exactly what motivated him to act…..like Rockliff for example....he is after all not what one would call a hard man enforcer type. He's a ball player….

I saw the Rockliff incident…I am sure Sam Mitchell was an innocent party and wouldn't have dome anything to provoke it

Be that as it may, it doesn't hurt our chances at the Gabba……thanks Sam

I'm similar David but never got reported....

Absolutely cracked a bloke in the back of the head one day in frustration spoiling.... nothing

Mind you the fact that the bloke not only got up with no issue but held the bloody mark probably said enough about my striking ability
And the weak amount of force I applied

 

[Willo_]

how did you guys go with all the training every week?

Pretty average... My last year I played 2 years back I don't think I trained the last 8 weeks at all! I hardly missed a session over preseason and the first 8 weeks... then i got the CBFs... around the time it got bloody cold and wet

Also it's pretty hard with a young child, at work all day then just want to get home to them not be out till after 8 or 9

 

[Hood007]

No, they were an elbow by Ballantyne and high by Rockliff, Johnson's was a simple hip and shoulder, free kickable because it was behind play. A free kick that is also never paid, incidentally, or Johnson's goal tally would be in 4 figure.

Rockliff got done for rough conduct, as did SJ.
The point was, people HAD been suspended before and after SJ on Hannebery.
Off the ball hits whether through a bump or a forearm or a strike are reportable offences and SJ should've known better.
Was it soft? Of course, but one can hardly plead ignorance on the rules.

 

[FredLeDeux]

Rockliff got done for rough conduct, as did SJ.
The point was, people HAD been suspended before and after SJ on Hannebery.
Off the ball hits whether through a bump or a forearm or a strike are reportable offences and SJ should've known better.
Was it soft? Of course, but one can hardly plead ignorance on the rules.

Rockliff and Ballantyne's offences would have been reportable wherever they occurred, in play or behind play.
Off hand I'm not aware of any case other than Johnson-Hanneberry of a player being suspended for something off the ball - in this case a routine hip and shoulder - which would not even be a free kick if done in play. Which is why Johnson was not at fault; he had no reason to suspect that what he did was punishable by anything more than a free kick, and he also knew that even that virtually never happened either.

 

[David the Cat]

how did you guys go with all the training every week?

Actually I enjoyed training…at least the ball work…..

Sand dune running…..uhmmm…..not much fun. The banter with the other guys helped a lot and got you through it.

Its a wonderful game to play….