Can AFL make a footprint in NZ?

[sirasputin]

who laughs at his own misquotes. By the way it's "says" not "say".
It's amazing you can laugh at a simple typo when the future of many competitions like the NRL, the rugby and soccer are severely threatened.
Do you think the that situation the NRL faces is a joke ?
The crisis has just begun and already the NRL are talking of folding unless the government stumps up $200 million.
What's it going to be like at the end of the year?

Sadly, previous rugby league administrators have been asleep at the wheel, corrupt or both. Rugby league has survived and thrived often despite leadership in the code. It's sad to see this happening now, but I think the NRL will come back, maybe under new ownership who knows. It's a godsend for the AFL because vlandys was probably going to be very effective. Now his efforts will be focussed on the survival of the NRL.

Very unfortunate, because I think his instincts in combating the AFL were correct. Rugby League have got a far better demographic base in NSW, QLD, NZ and PNG. That's a population of well over 20 million. They've squandered their birthright to a certain extent and opened the door for the AFL, who always knew that if they only focused on AFL states, they'd stagnate. Good news for us leaguies is that if we can get past this current crisis, there is still the opportunity to dominate in Nsw and Queensland, focus on Auckland and Wellington, and move to put a NRL team in port moresby, who's people are genuiny crazy for the game.

 

[sirasputin]

Yes, because it was stymied by lack of a suitable stadium.



Actually it's the other way around. We only have big cricket stadiums because of Australian Football.
New Zealand is the odd case but that's not say AFL could have eventually carried the torch.



That's a suggestion and the AFL has contributed to stadiums in Australia unlike the NRL.
I would imagine discussions would follow usual procedures and ask a contribution from all stake-holders.
Unlike rectangular stadiums, a major oval stadium would support cricket, AFL, athletics and international fixtures.



Yes and yes, a number of times, unlike a certain person purporting to be in Thailand.

It's been well documented that AFL games were taken to Welly at some point, and they eventually stopped that fixture due to lack of interest.

I can't ever see Aussie rules taking off in NZ. It's a cultural thing as much as anything else. AFL culture is just foreign to them. That's why kiwis gravitate to Sydney and Brisbane mostly. Its the same as the pacific islands communities in Australia. They feel far more at home in the rugby states. In the AFL states, particularly Victoria, you get marginalised if you prefer the rugby codes over AFL. It's a strange cultural trait of Victorians. Follow the game or be castigated from society. This is what it feels like to many outsiders.

 

[RedV3x]

Your Fear of NRL is showing and Rugby League in general.

I don't have any feelings towards rugby league but it is fact that the NRL are in a lot of trouble.
An organisation that asks for a $200 million bailout is obviously in trouble.
Competitions that have an international component are also in trouble.
Rugby super has cancelled it's competition and it is difficult for N.Z. to compete in Australians competitions.
The AFL and Austalian Football willi also take a big hit. I fear for the future of Australian Football
and i don't care about other sports but I do feel they are in a worse position than AFL except for cricket.

 

[RedV3x]

It's been well documented that AFL games were taken to Welly

Yes Wellington, acity of 400,000 and not Auckland a city of 2.5 million people.

I can't ever see Aussie rules taking off in NZ.

Did you say the same about AFL in Sydney. IMO, N.Z is an easier market to crack than Sydney.

 

[Over The Post]

It's been well documented that AFL games were taken to Welly at some point, and they eventually stopped that fixture due to lack of interest.

The cake tin has all the atmosphere of burnt toast, and swirling winds.

I can't ever see Aussie rules taking off in NZ....In the AFL states, particularly Victoria, you get marginalised if you prefer the rugby codes over AFL. It's a strange cultural trait of Victorians. Follow the game or be castigated from society. This is what it feels like to many outsiders.

Enough garbage. Bye.

 

[RedV3x]

Sadly, previous rugby league administrators have been asleep at the wheel, corrupt or both. Rugby league has survived and thrived often despite leadership in the code. It's sad to see this happening now, but I think the NRL will come back, maybe under new ownership who knows. It's a godsend for the AFL because vlandys was probably going to be very effective. Now his efforts will be focussed on the survival of the NRL.

Yes, the NRL will be focussed on survival but what has that got to do with the AFL?

Very unfortunate, because I think his instincts in combating the AFL were correct.

I think this statement underlines the very problem at the heart of NRL.
Every code has to focus on it's own game and map out it's own direction.
The AFL has been very successful because it invested in a long term plan.
The NRL is in trouble because it didn't even consolidate a future fund let alone plan for it's future.
RA is in trouble because it expanded to much too quickly and took money over exposure.
FFA is in trouble because it was simply arrogant.
I don't know how one "combats the AFL" and if I was running the NRL
I would be trying to counter the big drop-off in grassroots rugby league numbers.

 

[RedV3x]

Very fickle crowd Auckland even for sports they grew up with. Very doubtful mid season even with a full sized stadium Auckland vs GWS on a cold July afternoon gets more than 4000

Yet, the small (400,000 population) city of Wellington with it's windswept stadium produced decent crowds.
Auckland is a city of 2,500,000 with over 40,000 participants in Australian Football with many Australian Football leagues and competitions.
Auckland would be a much better bet to do better than Wellington.
With a measured approach there is no reason why AFL in Auckland couldn't be successful.
Maybe rugby league struggles in Auckland because it is too similar to rugby union.
Quite possibly the people of Auckland would appreciate something new.

 

[TWLS]

All this stuff has got really weird after I posted an AFLNZ article saying they are busy with their 2020 arrangements.
Then we get another presumably Kiwi posting the game is dying blah blah and will never get anywhere - Same old.
However will continue to post the AFLNZ articles just to show the game is not dying out over there.
Enjoy the footy tonight - Will see the Blues led by Champion West Aussie -Patrick Cripps - A good Brownlow bet if you get into that stuff.

 

[RedV3x]

All this stuff has got really weird after I posted an AFLNZ article saying they are busy with their 2020 arrangements.

Not really. There is going to be fallout.
Professional leagues are going to be hit hard and those that haven't made contingency plans will be under threat.
Probably, semi-pro leagues are going to be worse hit because they have capital commitments and limited income streams.
Amateur football wont suffer financial fallout but there will be a significant loss of momentum.
It is yet to be seen exactly how things will pan out.

 

[giskard]

I watch these international forums and Ruby League types usually get on and troll. I've never understood why such people bother to take the time to troll an otherwise good discussion. They just go out of their way to say bad things about the game with no foundation. I don't get why they just don't stick to their own sports.

Time will tell if Aussie Rules ever makes it in NZ. The thing that will make the difference is if the AFL supports it. But like most international clubs and leagues that have sprung up, they've survived with little to no support from the AFL. NZAFL exits and is presently expanding going by their site and the news that comes out of there. Corona will be a setback but hopefully will not extinquish that flame like what happened after WW1.

I never understand what some, not all, RL people have against Australian Rules Football. Some of the comments about Queenslanders... I've meet Queenslanders who play footy and not either of the Rugby codes. I've also met Queenslanders who hate it, but they can never say why. I guess it's so ingrained in some parts of Queensland to only follow Rugby League.
Australian Rules is just a game with different rules. I've got friends here in Vic that follow both games. No issues there.

And anyone that says Aussie Rules is not a tough game, has never played it.

 

[RedV3x]

I never understand what some, not all, RL people have against Australian Rules Football.

Probably jealousy. That's why N.Z. is less of a tough nut to crack than Sydney was.

 

[TWLS]

I watch these international forums and Ruby League types usually get on and troll. I've never understood why such people bother to take the time to troll an otherwise good discussion. They just go out of their way to say bad things about the game with no foundation. I don't get why they just don't stick to their own sports.

Time will tell if Aussie Rules ever makes it in NZ. The thing that will make the difference is if the AFL supports it. But like most international clubs and leagues that have sprung up, they've survived with little to no support from the AFL. NZAFL exits and is presently expanding going by their site and the news that comes out of there. Corona will be a setback but hopefully will not extinquish that flame like what happened after WW1.

I never understand what some, not all, RL people have against Australian Rules Football. Some of the comments about Queenslanders... I've meet Queenslanders who play footy and not either of the Rugby codes. I've also met Queenslanders who hate it, but they can never say why. I guess it's so ingrained in some parts of Queensland to only follow Rugby League.
Australian Rules is just a game with different rules. I've got friends here in Vic that follow both games. No issues there.

And anyone that says Aussie Rules is not a tough game, has never played it.

First up I lived in Sydney for 8 yrs when Aussie Rules was a true desert. The daily papers/Radio totally ignored the game - Nothing - Zero - Zip.
Most people i met knew nothing about the sport but still considered it a soft sport.
There were Aussie Rules Clubs playing but very low key.
Actually the reverse process exists in the AFL heartland States - Not many AFL fans dont know the difference between League and Union but they have a neutral view towards those codes.
About NZ
The Kiwis I have met dont consider it to be a true sport- End of.
But that does not mean we should not try to develop it over there particularly the Women where I believe the best opportunity lies.
What Womens Sports dominate over there - Netball, Cricket, Womens Hockey, Basketball, Rugby. These are the same sports as in Oz and we are making inroads in the two non heartland states with our Womens game.

 

[RedV3x]

First up I lived in Sydney for 8 yrs when Aussie Rules was a true desert.

It appeared that way but it was far from reality.
The introduction of television and especially colour television leveraged the dominant sports away from the also-rans.
I remember an SFL game at Campbelltown that drew over 3,000 and was bigger than a NSWRL game at the time.
The NSWRL had quite pathetic attendances then. Coming from the WA and SA I thought what is this game that is no bigger than the WAFL or SANFL.
There was the half-time SFL Show on the VFL televised game, but yes, you had to know where to look.
The SFL drew the same sort of crowds as did the RU. I would sometimes watch Randwick at Coogee.
There I could see were the Ella brothers playing club rugby in front of hundreds.
When the Swans came to town they drew significant numbers away from the SFL games.
The SFL and grassroots suffered for quite some time until the publicity started bolstering grassroots again.
The SFL grand final drew 15,000 at times.

The Kiwis I have met dont consider it to be a true sport.

And that is why anecdotal evidence it almost worthless. Mainly because you're talking to the wrong target audience.
I know many Kiwis in Perth that universally like RU but none are disparaging of AFL as to call it "soft".
I know people in Auckland who play and enjoy AFL and quite optimistic about it's future in N.Z.
because the people of N.Z. aren't that much different to Australians.
The people who were playing AFL were quite young. That is the target audience.
It is a total waste of time to target any group that has set views.
When I was living in Sydney I would rarely mention Australian Football but when people asked what I did for entertainment
then I would mention the Swans at the SCG and offer an invitation to join us.
I introduced many people to VFL that way and about half went on to become members.
If I had asked straight out, I doubt most would have declined.

But that does not mean we should not try to develop it over there particularly the Women where I believe the best opportunity lies.

And why is that - because women are generally more open to new things. Apart from netball and maybe soccer women have been deprived of the opportunity to play "masculine" sports. Now they do and they now have the opportunity and there is competition between codes to attract them.
Australian Football for women is attractive and it offers an attractive pathway to success.
Males are programmed into the dominant sport where there is little competition.
The AFL has done well to develop the game with youngster and follow them through their development and into community leagues.

 

[Aucklander]

I watch these international forums and Ruby League types usually get on and troll. I've never understood why such people bother to take the time to troll an otherwise good discussion. They just go out of their way to say bad things about the game with no foundation. I don't get why they just don't stick to their own sports.

Time will tell if Aussie Rules ever makes it in NZ. The thing that will make the difference is if the AFL supports it. But like most international clubs and leagues that have sprung up, they've survived with little to no support from the AFL. NZAFL exits and is presently expanding going by their site and the news that comes out of there. Corona will be a setback but hopefully will not extinquish that flame like what happened after WW1.

I never understand what some, not all, RL people have against Australian Rules Football. Some of the comments about Queenslanders... I've meet Queenslanders who play footy and not either of the Rugby codes. I've also met Queenslanders who hate it, but they can never say why. I guess it's so ingrained in some parts of Queensland to only follow Rugby League.
Australian Rules is just a game with different rules. I've got friends here in Vic that follow both games. No issues there.

And anyone that says Aussie Rules is not a tough game, has never played it.

It isn't a one way street. AFL fans have been trolling Rugby league forums for years. It still happens. Trolls usually end out getting banned anyway so it's not a big issue really.

 

[RedV3x]

It isn't a one way street.

??????????????????????

 

[TWLS]

It appeared that way but it was far from reality.
The introduction of television and especially colour television leveraged the dominant sports away from the also-rans.
I remember an SFL game at Campbelltown that drew over 3,000 and was bigger than a NSWRL game at the time.
The NSWRL had quite pathetic attendances then. Coming from the WA and SA I thought what is this game that is no bigger than the WAFL or SANFL.
There was the half-time SFL Show on the VFL televised game, but yes, you had to know where to look.
The SFL drew the same sort of crowds as did the RU. I would sometimes watch Randwick at Coogee.
There I could see were the Ella brothers playing club rugby in front of hundreds.
When the Swans came to town they drew significant numbers away from the SFL games.
The SFL and grassroots suffered for quite some time until the publicity started bolstering grassroots again.
The SFL grand final drew 15,000 at times.



And that is why anecdotal evidence it almost worthless. Mainly because you're talking to the wrong target audience.
I know many Kiwis in Perth that universally like RU but none are disparaging of AFL as to call it "soft".
I know people in Auckland who play and enjoy AFL and quite optimistic about it's future in N.Z.
because the people of N.Z. aren't that much different to Australians.
The people who were playing AFL were quite young. That is the target audience.
It is a total waste of time to target any group that has set views.
When I was living in Sydney I would rarely mention Australian Football but when people asked what I did for entertainment
then I would mention the Swans at the SCG and offer an invitation to join us.
I introduced many people to VFL that way and about half went on to become members.
If I had asked straight out, I doubt most would have declined.




And why is that - because women are generally more open to new things. Apart from netball and maybe soccer women have been deprived of the opportunity to play "masculine" sports. Now they do and they now have the opportunity and there is competition between codes to attract them.
Australian Football for women is attractive and it offers an attractive pathway to success.
Males are programmed into the dominant sport where there is little competition.
The AFL has done well to develop the game with youngster and follow them through their development and into community leagues.

Totally disagree about your Sydney comments. We must have been living in alternate worlds when there.
The footy situation for me was very negative. Where I worked they just laughed when I raised our game in conversation.
Trumper Park was where I went on 3 occasions and that was that.
I joined the St George Leagues Club -Tajah Mahal - on Princes Highway and settled into that life style and used to get VFL scores on Saturdays on the late ABC news.
Where i worked two of the guys coached RL juniors and was asked if I was available to assist which I did.
It was all Rugby League in the St George District and there was an Aussie Rules team there but had a very low profile.
The AFL moved South Melbourne up there in the 1980`s and it took another 20 years in about 2000 when the penny dropped at AFL House that they had to get serious about footy up there and started pouring money in.
Here we are 20 years later and the game has grown but still behind RL and may go past Union.

 

[RedV3x]

Trumper Park was where I went on 3 occasions and that was that.

I trained and played at Trumper and at times against St George. Socialised at their pub and club in Bondi Junction.
I repeat "And that is why anecdotal evidence it almost worthless."
Your experiences were negative because where you ventured. I rarely ventured there.
"When I was living in Sydney I would rarely mention Australian Football but when people asked what I did for entertainment
then I would mention the Swans at the SCG and offer an invitation to join us.
I introduced many people to VFL that way and about half went on to become members.
If I had asked straight out, I doubt most would have declined."

As I have tried to explain you "It is a total waste of time to target any group that has set views."
What did you expect to find at a leagues club - Australian Football lovers? That is NOT the target audience.

Few people realise that when Eastern Suburbs played out of the Sports Ground that the banner group used to frequent Trumper Park as well.
There was a lot more crossover than most people realise. Now when you visited Trumper Park who was coaching them? Greg Harris - who played for St George. He played R.U., NSWRL, administrator for the Swans and the Western Force. Was it Austin Robinson Jr. the record holding WAFL goal kicker from Subiaco. Did you see Barry Breen, coach of North Shore? Were Campbelltown at their peak, getting NSWRL sized crowds?
There was a lot going on in the SFL and Australian Football but yes you definitely wouldn't know it talking to r.l. types.

Here we are 20 years later and the game has grown but still behind RL and may go past Union.

Isn't it enough to say that AFL has two of the biggest clubs in Sydney.
Why do you even mention R.U. and r.l.?
As long as Australian Football prospers in Sydney, in NSW, in Australia and around the world then that is what matters to me.
What other codes do is their business. Yes, we should look at other codes as the AFL looks at the NFL
but IMO, the problem with other codes in Australia is that look to the AFL too much
instead of following the model which best suits them.

 

[TWLS]

I trained and played at Trumper and at times against St George. Socialised at their pub and club in Bondi Junction.
I repeat "And that is why anecdotal evidence it almost worthless."
Your experiences were negative because where you ventured. I rarely ventured there.
"When I was living in Sydney I would rarely mention Australian Football but when people asked what I did for entertainment
then I would mention the Swans at the SCG and offer an invitation to join us.
I introduced many people to VFL that way and about half went on to become members.
If I had asked straight out, I doubt most would have declined."

As I have tried to explain you "It is a total waste of time to target any group that has set views."
What did you expect to find at a leagues club - Australian Football lovers? That is NOT the target audience.

Few people realise that when Eastern Suburbs played out of the Sports Ground that the banner group used to frequent Trumper Park as well.
There was a lot more crossover than most people realise. Now when you visited Trumper Park who was coaching them? Greg Harris - who played for St George. He played R.U., NSWRL, administrator for the Swans and the Western Force. Was it Austin Robinson Jr. the record holding WAFL goal kicker from Subiaco. Did you see Barry Breen, coach of North Shore? Were Campbelltown at their peak, getting NSWRL sized crowds?
There was a lot going on in the SFL and Australian Football but yes you definitely wouldn't know it talking to r.l. types.

I knew about most of the stuff you are talking about and did contact the St George AR club in Sydney but coming from Perth when our game absolutely dominated every thing else footy wise and landing in Sydney where it had a low profile in comparison was an adjustment that was an eye opener.
You refuse to face the fact that at that time our game did not get into the daily papers ever and was very low profile compared to Rugby League.
You paint a picture of footy as having a higher profile which is not true.
I joined the Leagues Club to have a good time not canvassing for our game which Sydney people did not care about.
The point about the 2 x 20 year periods is that our game has had to battle hard to grow the numbers which has turned the corner it appears.
This is my final comment on this topic.

 

[Over The Post]

Thanks guys, this has nothing to do with NZ any more and is getting a bit too heated.

 

[TWLS]

BACK on topic after more weird stuff on this thread.
AFLNZ have shut up shop for a while it appears. The worry beads will be getting a working out for a while.
NOTE- They said postponement not abandonment.

Statement: AFL New Zealand Premiership and AFLNZ Academy Postponement – AFL New Zealand

Due to the increasing demands of work placed health restrictions upon multiple participants within the AFL New Zealand Premiership teams, the AFL New Zealand Premiership for both Men and Women, has been postponed. A review for the completion dates for the competition, will be determined...

aflnz.co.nz

 

[RedV3x]

BACK on topic after deleting my reply but not your anecdotes

deleting my reply but not your anecdotes.

I say N.Z. is a much easier target than Sydney because there isn't the prevalent inter-city rivalry of Australia.
Your logic would say that in N.Z.that there is no reason Auckland couldn't emulate Sydney coming off of a zero base.

 

[Aucklander]

BACK on topic after more weird stuff on this thread.
AFLNZ have shut up shop for a while it appears. The worry beads will be getting a working out for a while.
NOTE- They said postponement not abandonment.

Statement: AFL New Zealand Premiership and AFLNZ Academy Postponement – AFL New Zealand

Due to the increasing demands of work placed health restrictions upon multiple participants within the AFL New Zealand Premiership teams, the AFL New Zealand Premiership for both Men and Women, has been postponed. A review for the completion dates for the competition, will be determined...

aflnz.co.nz

Just joining a host of other sports who are halted until things turn around.

 

[Aucklander]

 

[RedV3x]

With the AFL shuffling so many AFL games around maybe they should try holding the odd game in New Zealand.

 

[Gigantor]

With the AFL shuffling so many AFL games around maybe they should try holding the odd game in New Zealand.

right at the minute, very little chance of any game being played more than 150km away from Melbourne.
Hobart and Lonnie in with a chance, and that's it.
There'd be more chance of a game being played in Wangaratta than NZ.