Can AFL make a footprint in NZ?

RedV3x

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A meaningful club is one that has genuine community and social support, it's engaging, the people/media genuinely are invested in the club and it's fortunes, they are followers of the club rather than just token supporters.
All AFL clubs and all Australian Football clubs are community run so they are by your definition meaningful.
I do not see the media reporting as being particularly accurate or meaningful.
The Sydney Swans can have a blockbuster game in Sydney and it will go unreported on the ABC website.
The ABC does not report on any state leagues despite there being more interest in them than many national leagues.
 

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juss

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All AFL clubs and all Australian Football clubs are community run so they are by your definition meaningful.
I do not see the media reporting as being particularly accurate or meaningful.
The Sydney Swans can have a blockbuster game in Sydney and it will go unreported on the ABC website.
The ABC does not report on any state leagues despite there being more interest in them than many national leagues.
You can use all the technicalities you want, there a difference between organisations people care about and those they don't. It's pretty simple when you see it I can't be bothered arguing that point anymore. An NZ club in a non dominant foreign market would be even more success dependant than some AUS clubs struggling with the same thing. Particularly when that market has another preferred sport they are heavily invested in between international Rugby, Super Rugby and League. As I said the placement of a team is not the issue, it's the support after it that will be challenging.
 
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RedV3x

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You can use all the technicalities you want.
That's the only meaningful approach.

You can use all the technicalities you want, there a difference between organisations people care about and those they don't.
I understand what you're saying but not who are you referring to or wht's it got to do with New Zealand.

As I said the placement of a team is not the issue,
That statement seems to be at odds with your "meaningful" statement.

It's the support after it that will be challenging.
Tell us something that we don't know. That is why the AFL has learned from past expansions and is taking a holistic approach.
It is important to focus on what support there is for Australian Football in New Zealand.
You have Australian Football played in New Zealand (and even a long history of it being played there)
You have the AFL investing in school and youth programs.
You have the 25,000 that turned upto an AFL game in Wellington, a miserable city of only 400,000 people.
You have beautiful Auckland, a city of 1.7 million people and the centre of Australian Football in N.Z
You have the support of New Zealand cities that want to broaden their sporting base.
AFL is televised on Duke TV.
That's meaningful and yes it's optimistic and there are no guarentees but AFL has the product.
Product does count. If you look at the NFL it has overtaken rugby league in BBC ratings and American Football
has spread throughout most of Europe.
 

juss

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That's the only meaningful approach.



I understand what you're saying but not who are you referring to or wht's it got to do with New Zealand.



That statement seems to be at odds with your "meaningful" statement.



Tell us something that we don't know. That is why the AFL has learned from past expansions and is taking a holistic approach.
It is important to focus on what support there is for Australian Football in New Zealand.
You have Australian Football played in New Zealand (and even a long history of it being played there)
You have the AFL investing in school and youth programs.
You have the 25,000 that turned upto an AFL game in Wellington, a miserable city of only 400,000 people.
You have beautiful Auckland, a city of 1.7 million people and the centre of Australian Football in N.Z
You have the support of New Zealand cities that want to broaden their sporting base.
AFL is televised on Duke TV.
That's meaningful and yes it's optimistic and there are no guarentees but AFL has the product.
Product does count. If you look at the NFL it has overtaken rugby league in BBC ratings and American Football
has spread throughout most of Europe.
I think it will happen. There is an NZ NRL, NBL and A league teams so its not the placement that is farfetched. I would probably say 20-50 years though would be wiser if so. Personally I think Tassie should be next if any new clubs are to be in the AFL.
 

RedV3x

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I think it will happen.
I think it will happen if they can sort out the stadium issue.
If it happens it will be because of the AFL and Australian Football and only Australian Football.
If it happens it will be soon and it will be without relevence to any other sport
except maybe for sharing of the ground.
 

juss

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I think it will happen if they can sort out the stadium issue.
If it happens it will be because of the AFL and Australian Football and only Australian Football.
If it happens it will be soon and it will be without relevence to any other sport
except maybe for sharing of the ground.
Depends how you define soon, I would put a blanket ban on any new licences for 5 years, and to be reviewed in 5 years time.
Following that I would open up the Tassie discussions again, I still think there's merit in a team moving to/being created in Tassie.

I'd be surprised and disappointed if NZ got a team before Tassie.
 

Aussie in exile

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Link indeed shows that the AFLW is the worlds best attended women's football league.
Let's not forget that the AFL is the worlds fourth best attended men's football league.
Australian Football must have something going for it to generate so much patronidge.
Not sure how they got them crowd figures as its free entry
It will be interesting to see the crowd figures for AFLW when they charge addmission
 

RedV3x

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Not sure how they got them crowd figures
Err, they got the attendance figures the normal way they get attendances.

It will be interesting to see the crowd figures for AFLW when they charge addmission
The AFLW have a model based on television revenue which is what most major sports are based on
and there are major sports in Australia that charge next to nothing to get in or freebies and it doesn't change attendances.
 

RedV3x

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Depends how you define soon, I would put a blanket ban on any new licences for 5 years,
IMO there will be no new licences. 20 teams is too many for one league.
IMO the AFL wouldn't counternance two conferences, a VFL and an AFL, with two GFs and a superbowl.
 

Aussie in exile

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Err, they got the attendance figures the normal way they get attendances.



The AFLW have a model based on television revenue which is what most major sports are based on
and there are major sports in Australia that charge next to nothing to get in or freebies and it doesn't change attendances.
It was free to get into these games so they wouldn't have gone through the turnstyles
 

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RedV3x

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And never will.
I enjoy watching the AFLW, but then I enjoy watching most Australian Football.
I see more W.A.F.L. and amateurs football than A.F.L. these days.
The secret to an ejoyable game is close competition usually.
One of the problems in Australia is that there is too much football for one person to get across.
People have to make choices between the AFL, state leagues, community football, junior football and women's football.
Many people watch the AFLW because it is played in summer time unopposed and more should be made of this.
It cannot be understated the impact that women's football has made to lifting the profile of Australian Football
within Australia and overseas. The AFLW is leading the world in football for women and more leverage should be made of it.
 

Aussie in exile

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I enjoy watching the AFLW, but then I enjoy watching most Australian Football.
I see more W.A.F.L. and amateurs football than A.F.L. these days.
The secret to an ejoyable game is close competition usually.
One of the problems in Australia is that there is too much football for one person to get across.
People have to make choices between the AFL, state leagues, community football, junior football and women's football.
Many people watch the AFLW because it is played in summer time unopposed and more should be made of this.
It cannot be understated the impact that women's football has made to lifting the profile of Australian Football
within Australia and overseas. The AFLW is leading the world in football for women and more leverage should be made of it.
Soccer is leading the world for women in the football codes. Look at the crowds and the TV audiences they are getting for their world cup.
 

RedV3x

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The AFLW is leading the world as a domestic competition and average crowds.
The AFLW grand Final even rivals the WC women's big matchs for attendance.
Any world event should draw on national pride but that doesn't equate to interest.
There are many world sporting events that attract 'event' interest yet have low interest levels domestically.
Meaningful interest is that which attends local leagues and local clubs.
The AFLW is leading the world in football for women and more leverage should be made of it.
Women's Australian Football is where Australian Football can possibly develop into a world game
much faster than the men's game as the competition and start up are closer.
 

NoobPie

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The AFLW is leading the world as a domestic competition and average crowds.
The AFLW grand Final even rivals the WC women's big matchs for attendance.
Any world event should draw on national pride but that doesn't equate to interest.
There are many world sporting events that attract 'event' interest yet have low interest levels domestically.
Meaningful interest is that which attends local leagues and local clubs.
The AFLW is leading the world in football for women and more leverage should be made of it.
Women's Australian Football is where Australian Football can possibly develop into a world game
much faster than the men's game as the competition and start up are closer.
Don't engage the guy he is a sad troll

One thing though, there is never going to be a situation where a team representing another country could put on a credible performance against an Australian team. Have a look at the impact of having a significant difference in midfield strength had on the contest in that Vic versus the rest game a couple of years back

Leave the international fantasies for Rugby League and its comical inferiority complex with rugby union - which itself is hardly some global behemoth like some of its adherents profess

If the AFLW got to a point where 5 % of the women were from non-ireland OS that would be a massive triumph. But however much the international game improves it is chasing a wave of light when you think about the 160 years of knowledge and culture the development of the women's game here is tapping in to
 

Aussie in exile

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The AFLW is leading the world as a domestic competition and average crowds.
The AFLW grand Final even rivals the WC women's big matchs for attendance.
Any world event should draw on national pride but that doesn't equate to interest.
There are many world sporting events that attract 'event' interest yet have low interest levels domestically.
Meaningful interest is that which attends local leagues and local clubs.
The AFLW is leading the world in football for women and more leverage should be made of it.
Women's Australian Football is where Australian Football can possibly develop into a world game
much faster than the men's game as the competition and start up are closer.
Its free to get into AFLW that why they draw the crowds they do.
When they start charging watch the crowds drop.
A paying crowd of 54,000 watched the women's world cup soccer game this morning in France and both teams were from overseas.
We will never be able to challenge soccer, men's or women's outside of Australia. That's a sad fact that a certain poster on here, but not you, can't see.
We will never be able to challenge the Rugby codes either outside of Australia. Again a sad fact that certain poster can't see.
 

ManUtd

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Its free to get into AFLW that why they draw the crowds they do.
When they start charging watch the crowds drop.
A paying crowd of 54,000 watched the women's world cup soccer game this morning in France and both teams were from overseas.
We will never be able to challenge soccer, men's or women's outside of Australia. That's a sad fact that a certain poster on here, but not you, can't see.
We will never be able to challenge the Rugby codes either outside of Australia. Again a sad fact that certain poster can't see.
It's true that the women's world cup is not going to translate into any great interest in domestic leagues, but why are we pretending the AFLW is anything noteworthy? There's no women's league of any kind that is popular, and I include the biggest of them all in that, the WNBA.

I agree with your assessment. The actual attendances in France, while still impressive for women's sport, have been so-so, and the last two women's world cups in Canada and Germany did better with attendances. But the number of people watching on television is quite something.

These are all viewership numbers for a single game:
35 million in Brazil
11.7 million in England
10.71 million in France
8.24 million USA
7.9 million in Germany
7.3 million in Italy

Good luck matching that.
 
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RedV3x

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Don't engage the guy he is a sad troll.
Of course he is. The more that trolls post here the more the more it shows they're worried.
They cannot compete on average attendances and they have the backing of many countries.
It's a huge win and a great potential for women's Australian Football.

One thing though, there is never going to be a situation where a team representing another country could put on a credible performance against an Australian team.
Well you might form a world team from the AFL and the women were fairly close for a brief window but AFLW is widening the gap again.
But yes, Australian Football is game that magnifies the differences between two sides
where as rugby and soccer can be closed down by defensive efforts.



If the AFLW got to a point where 5 % of the women were from non-ireland OS that would be a massive triumph.
The Irish Banshees only just recovered the world champions from Canada And the Euro Cup from England.
Europe is coming on very strong in women's football.
 

NoobPie

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It's true that the women's world cup is not going to translate into any great interest in domestic leagues, but why are we pretending the AFLW is anything noteworthy? There's no women's league of any kind that is popular, and I include the biggest of them all in that, the WNBA.
The AFLW is very noteworthy as Redv3x set out....and it will only get more popular.

I agree with your assessment. The actual attendances in France, while still impressive for women's sport, have been so-so, and the last two women's world cups in Canada and Germany did better with attendances.
Well you agree with a rugby league troll, good for you.

But the number of people watching on television is quite something.

These are all viewership numbers for a single game:
35 million in Brazil
11.7 million in England
10.71 million in France
8.24 million USA
7.9 million in Germany
7.3 million in Italy

Good luck matching that.
Nobody is talking about matching that. It's a soccer world cup that once every four years taps women's soccer into the great vein of jingoism and gives it a few weeks where it is centre stage over men's soccer

Point is though here the AFLW gets up to 2 months of primacy every year. It will continue to grow exponentially
 

NoobPie

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Of course he is. The more that trolls post here the more the more it shows they're worried.
They cannot compete on average attendances and they have the backing of many countries.
It's a huge win and a great potential for women's Australian Football.



Well you might form a world team from the AFL and the women were fairly close for a brief window but AFLW is widening the gap again.
But yes, Australian Football is game that magnifies the differences between two sides
where as rugby and soccer can be closed down by defensive efforts.





The Irish Banshees only just recovered the world champions from Canada And the Euro Cup from England.
Europe is coming on very strong in women's football.
I don't think any hypothetical world team was ever close to a hypothetical Australian women's team. If that were the case we would have seen far more non-Australians playing in the first season. As it was, there was one rookie who did her knee before the season started

The problem now is, whatever growth in other countries, the new kids coming through here have benefited from very well resourced development programs and have likely grown up in environments of 6th/7th generation footballers. As far as I know there are still not significant numbers of youth playing anywhere outside of Australia outside of NZ maybe.
 

RedV3x

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I don't think any hypothetical world team was ever close to a hypothetical Australian women's team.
I disagree. Even the talk of an AFLW cause a big improvement in Australian Football in Australia.
Overseas women had the International Cup and international representation to aim for.
Some people actually suggested a world AFLW team or at least in partnership with a weaker team.
Why aren't there more overseas women in the AFW - simply money.
ATM there is only the budget for the best overseas players.
There are now a large number of overseas wome playing in Australia.
One problem is that overseas players quickly exhaust their visas and ATM the government doesn't hve a sport's visa.

"NoobPie, post: 61673347, member: 176067As far as I know there are still not significant numbers of youth playing anywhere outside of Australia outside of NZ
Well, there are numbers and there are competitions so it's hard to make definitive statements but
New Zealand has numbers and now has an elite competition resulting in N.Z being a I.C. winner.
P.N.G. has always had the competition and now it has recently addedt numbers due to the AFL. P.N.G. is the biggest I.C. winner
and has numerous players in Australian competitions most of which don't play in the I.C.
Canada has the best competition in the East and the best youth numbers in the West but this hasn't as yet translated into success for the men.
Canda has arguably the biggest and maybe best women's competitions and they are I.C. winners.
R.S.A has the numbers and some decent competitions but the money isn't there to make use of the players.
England started some youth programs and this year there was a huge push for youth teams.
There are many other youth programs and/or teams with Scandanavia probably being the most significant.of
India, Fiji, Vanuatu, U.S.A., Singapore, Macau, Pakistan and Nepal.
Let's not forget Nauru which is the most passionate Australian Football country in the world.
 
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