Expansion Canberra

[Badger17]

Canberra sides have always been just called 'Canberra' so why would southern nsw have any attachment to them. A team that represents Canberra and snsw from the start is more likely to get that permanent support from the riverina, as it is labelled as the team from where they live too and the club would be genuinely invested by playing games there from the start and throughout. I think the examples you give are different as I assume the raiders only started playing the occasional game there recently.

Unless we're making something random up or going with a weird disjointed name, there's no name that represents both Canberra and the Riverina.

The only things they have in common with each other are that they are vaguely close to each other.

 

[Badger17]

You'd get a bit more with ticket sales in the Riverina, too, but I get your point, it ends up mostly evening out.

There's an annual NRL game in Wagga, and I would say Wagga's slightly AFL-leaning, so there might be a chance they'd swap down the track. Albury's even bigger and more AFL leaning, so I imagine if Wagga can find the dough, they can. I couldn't find out the figure for how much the Raiders are getting per game, but each game apparently injects $2 million into the local economy, so while it doesn't go directly back to the budget, it more than pays for itself through the community.

Even if Manuka hosted all 11 home games, I'd still be keen for Canberra to play an annual preseason match at Wagga or Albury.

The Raiders play an annual game in Wagga as part of the quid pro quo for the NSW government giving them millions of dollars to help fund their centre of excellence in Braddon.

That grant was the difference between the project going ahead or being shelved, and was only possible because of the Queanbeyan Leagues Club's political connections. It would be unrealistic for a Canberra based AFL side to expect anything similar to that deal to play games in the bush.

There really isn't a catch-all name that'd make people happy. Unlike the NT and Tasmania, it's more just two adjacent areas that are kind of vaguely linked.

They're not even really adjacent.

Sure they are included in the Riverina region for some government purposes, but colloquially very few people really considerers the Brindabellas and snowy valleys to the west of the ACT to be in the Riverina.

In other words Canberra is surrounded by the Southern Tablelands and Snowy mountains.

I understand Riverinians not getting fully behind a team called Canberra. I myself couldn't really get behind a team called Southern NSW as I don't really identify with the state and I imagine other Canberrans would be similar. "Canberra" would have to be the name as that's where the core of the fanbase would be.

You could go with ACT as well.

There're probably a few others you could get away with, maybe Ngunnawal, Capital, or even CBR like the Brave for example.

As mentioned earlier, I'd be okay with a "Canberra-Southern New South Wales Football Club trading as Canberra" with a CSNSWFC on the guernsey (similar to the Swans), but anything more than that is a mouthful and would alienate the core base.

That would be the definition of trying to be everything to everyone.

In this context it'd be broad to the point of being absolutely meaningless.

 

[Canberra Pear]

The Raiders play an annual game in Wagga as part of the quid pro quo for the NSW government giving them millions of dollars to help fund their centre of excellence in Braddon.

That grant was the difference between the project going ahead or being shelved, and was only possible because of the Queanbeyan Leagues Club's political connections. It would be unrealistic for a Canberra based AFL side to expect anything similar to that deal to play games in the bush.

They're not even really adjacent.

Sure they are included in the Riverina region for some government purposes, but colloquially very few people really considerers the Brindabellas and snowy valleys to the west of the ACT to be in the Riverina.

In other words Canberra is surrounded by the Southern Tablelands and Snowy mountains.

You could go with ACT as well.

There're probably a few others you could get away with, maybe Ngunnawal, Capital, or even CBR like the Brave for example.

That would be the definition of trying to be everything to everyone.

In this context it'd be broad to the point of being absolutely meaningless.

Ahh that's where that came from. Explains why I couldn't find a dollar figure and why the Raiders risked a fine to play in Wagga.

I'm a bit anti the name ACT. It was used by the Brumbies because Super Rugby was a provincial competition (Qld, NSW etc). There's also about ~100k people who would identify with Canberra, but not be in the ACT.

I don't mind Capital. Capital is a bit vague, but surprisingly unused. Could also work for a good naming rights with Capital Brewing. The headlines also write themselves: Capital punishment, Capital gains, Capital offence, Capital improvement.

I actually quite like the idea of Ngunnawal. It's a suburb name, too, but that wouldn't be much of a hurdle. It would just have to be done really well to make sure all the terminology is used correctly. The only downside is name recognition. I assume the ACT Govt would want Canberra or CBR as it's a bit of a free advertisement for the city every time the sports report is on.

 

[Walshawk]

Selfishly, I'd be more than okay with 11 games in Canberra. I think we'd be more than capable. But if the argument for NT is that it's such an AFL heartland, it's a handy ace up the sleeve for Canberra with an AFL heartland bigger than the NT on its doorstep.

I agree with not trying too hard to please everybody. That's why I think it has to be called Canberra, even if games are played elsewhere. It'd be too blurry and too much of a mouthful to get one name that covers everything. I don't have an answer for not alienating the Riverina though. My hope is, similar to the Raiders, crowds would rock up to support the sport and support Canberra as neutrals, maybe picking up a few kids on the way. Enough Riverina locals should play on the Canberra team that they'd at least have the support of most neutrals.

But I like you're thinking about GWS. It might make them less against a Canberra team if they get to keep the Riverina. I couldn't find the exact details, but the Wagga council paid $300k back in the day for early GWS preseason games. Albury just spent $20m upgrading its ground. I would say they'd be willing to spend ~$400k for an annual game to stop it from becoming a white elephant.

You are right, if you try to please everybody, you end up pleasing none. Dual home games can work (Hawthorn. Tasmania), but a dual/multiple identity (GWS) is more difficult.

Where has this nonsense idea that somehow Canberra is only worthy of a team if they are forced to share it with Wagga and/or Albury come from.

Aside from maybe some academies in the regions around Canberra, which is a good idea but doesn't require the club to play games in the regions or pretend that they somehow represent the Riverina (or any other regions of NSW) as well as Canberra and Queanbeyan, there'd be very little for a Canberra side to gain out of Wagga and/or Albury, and any gains they did make would come at the expense of growth back home.

The whole idea seems to come from people whom haven't got the faintest clue about the region, it's geography, and the cultural differences, suggesting that the regions are close therefore it's a good idea to bundle them together. It's akin to saying Geelong is close to Melbourne therefore you could bundle them into a Melbourne side.

If the AFL wants a Canberra club then fine let's do it, but these ideas of a an effectively everything south of Sydney side are nonsense, and would do more harm than good.

Substitute ‘ Western Sydney’ for Canberra and you have set out very well why GWS have not succeeded off field.

 

[Badger17]

Ahh that's where that came from. Explains why I couldn't find a dollar figure and why the Raiders risked a fine to play in Wagga.

They still get a sum per game, but my understanding is that it's nominal. Just to cover costs and the such.

I'm a bit anti the name ACT. It was used by the Brumbies because Super Rugby was a provincial competition (Qld, NSW etc). There's also about ~100k people who would identify with Canberra, but not be in the ACT.

I don't mind Capital. Capital is a bit vague, but surprisingly unused. Could also work for a good naming rights with Capital Brewing. The headlines also write themselves: Capital punishment, Capital gains, Capital offence, Capital improvement.

I actually quite like the idea of Ngunnawal. It's a suburb name, too, but that wouldn't be much of a hurdle. It would just have to be done really well to make sure all the terminology is used correctly. The only downside is name recognition. I assume the ACT Govt would want Canberra or CBR as it's a bit of a free advertisement for the city every time the sports report is on.

Rightly or wrongly ACT and Canberra are used basically interchangeably in common parlance, so I don't see how calling the side one or the other would really alienate anybody except for the sort of people whom are looking for an excuse to be upset.

To be honest I don't really have a strong opinion on any potential names. Generally I feel that the indigenous names come off as tokenism in practice, and I think the abbreviation gimmick will date quickly, but at the same time it wouldn't upset me if they went with either.

If it was me I'd just go with Canberra or ACT and be done with it, but as long as the name is relevant and meaningful I'm not too stressed. Potential nicknames and colours are more interesting to me.

 

[Canberra Pear]

They still get a sum per game, but my understanding is that it's nominal. Just to cover costs and the such.

Rightly or wrongly ACT and Canberra are used basically interchangeably in common parlance, so I don't see how calling the side one or the other would really alienate anybody except for the sort of people whom are looking for an excuse to be upset.

To be honest I don't really have a strong opinion on any potential names. Generally I feel that the indigenous names come off as tokenism in practice, and I think the abbreviation gimmick will date quickly, but at the same time it wouldn't upset me if they went with either.

If it was me I'd just go with Canberra or ACT and be done with it, but as long as the name is relevant and meaningful I'm not too stressed. Potential nicknames and colours are more interesting to me.

If the Eagles weren't in the league, blue and yellow would be the perfect colours (same as our flag, the Brumbies, CBR Brave).

I quite like the idea of green and blue. A bit similar to these below. The blue would be lighter than most blues in the AFL, and the green would be lighter than the green I expect Tassie to use. I think primarily blue so the guernsey doesn't get lost on the field. The blue represents the lake and the green represents the "bush capital".



GWS and Gold Coast both went bold with their guernsey designs, but I would prefer them to go with a more traditional design. Port and Fremantle learned their lessons and went back to traditional designs. I think a Geelong type hoops would work well with that colour scheme.

 

[almuz]

If the Eagles weren't in the league, blue and yellow would be the perfect colours (same as our flag, the Brumbies, CBR Brave).

I quite like the idea of green and blue. A bit similar to these below. The blue would be lighter than most blues in the AFL, and the green would be lighter than the green I expect Tassie to use. I think primarily blue so the guernsey doesn't get lost on the field. The blue represents the lake and the green represents the "bush capital".

View attachment 1386257

GWS and Gold Coast both went bold with their guernsey designs, but I would prefer them to go with a more traditional design. Port and Fremantle learned their lessons and went back to traditional designs. I think a Geelong type hoops would work well with that colour scheme.

Sounds like colours from another Seattle team:

I wouldn't mind blue/green hoops, it would certainly be distinctive.

For better or for worse, Canberra would not be bound to any colours or symbolism like the Tassie team will be. Whoever creates the identity will pretty much be able to send it.

I really like this design from Supercheapgiants here - Discussion - Jumper design ideas for teams 19 and 20 (Tas & Canberra?)

It's still a footy jumper, has a good level of detail and not tacky like the Suns's designs look for example.

Re names, Canberra Colts, Canberra Cockatoos and Canberra Capitals could work. It may be sacrelig to revive the name but Canberra Koalas sounds nice. These are all pretty traditional sounding names but given that team 19 will (likely) be Tasmania Devils, the AFL might want something a little more off the wall and modern for team 20's name. Maybe something a bit more American or out there like NBL's Jackjumpers.

 

[Badger17]

If the Eagles weren't in the league, blue and yellow would be the perfect colours (same as our flag, the Brumbies, CBR Brave).

I quite like the idea of green and blue. A bit similar to these below. The blue would be lighter than most blues in the AFL, and the green would be lighter than the green I expect Tassie to use. I think primarily blue so the guernsey doesn't get lost on the field. The blue represents the lake and the green represents the "bush capital".

View attachment 1386257

GWS and Gold Coast both went bold with their guernsey designs, but I would prefer them to go with a more traditional design. Port and Fremantle learned their lessons and went back to traditional designs. I think a Geelong type hoops would work well with that colour scheme.

I'm not sure that going with a light shade of green is the right way to go. It's basically just copying the Raiders.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not necessarily saying that we shouldn't use green, I just like the idea of exploring unique ideas first before resorting to effectively copying what others have done. A big part of the reason the Raiders identity has been so successful is it's uniqueness after all, and if possible I'd like the Canberra AFL team to have the same thing going for it.

The ACT's official colours are blue and gold, so why not try emphasising the gold by using a metallic gold (i.e. true gold, not yellow gold). Make the blue midnight blue, so dark that it looks almost black unless it's in the light, and use the gold sparingly in some design and on the trim.

I guess it'd be similar to the Vegas Golden Knights in the NHL, to give you an idea of what I'm talking about.

Nobody else in Australian sport is doing it so it'd stand out, it fits the region, and it'd give us a point of difference from the Eagles. If you did it right it wouldn't even clash with the Eagles.

Anyway I'm just spitballing.

 

[Bjo187]

Could go green top with yellow numbers and blue shorts. Basically the national colours.

I do agree green is the one main colour significantly under represented in the AFL, but no doubt the NRL fans in Canberra will have a sook if it's similar to the raiders. I also like the navy and gold option but there are a lot of blue teams is the only problem. I've always been a big advocate of blue and orange it looks awesome together.

 

[Badger17]

Re names, Canberra Colts, Canberra Cockatoos and Canberra Capitals could work. It may be sacrelig to revive the name but Canberra Koalas sounds nice. These are all pretty traditional sounding names but given that team 19 will (likely) be Tasmania Devils, the AFL might want something a little more off the wall and modern for team 20's name. Maybe something a bit more American or out there like NBL's Jackjumpers.

Capitals is taken.

Warrigals would be a cool name for the team. That way you can have a Dingo as the mascot without it being really on the nose and warrigal also means untamed or savage, which would be a cool little double entendre.

BTW, how is Jackjumpers out there. Jack jumper ants are native to Tassie, famous for jumping, and are highly aggressive and dangerous. I can't think of a more perfect name for a Tasmanian basketball team.

 

[Badger17]

I do agree green is the one main colour significantly under represented in the AFL, but no doubt the NRL fans in Canberra will have a sook if it's similar to the raiders.

I don't think pointing the similarity out is sooking, especially when considering the history of how they ended up lime green and how they are the sole reason that it's synonymous with Canberra.

 

[Bjo187]

If lime I agree it would be copying but they use all different greens these days and even added in navy blue, so I garauntee an AFL club using green would get that reaction. The same as when gws were charcoal and orange they were accused of copying west tigers. There are only so many colours left.

 

[Canberra Pear]

I don't think pointing the similarity out is sooking, especially when considering the history of how they ended up lime green and how they are the sole reason that it's synonymous with Canberra.

I only just read why for the first time. Apparently it was to combine the blue and yellow of the flag. It's used by Canberra United in the W-League, too. To me, it's still very Raiders and I can't disconnect the team from the colour.

It might work alright with a very dark combo. Like a black and lime would contrast well without looking too Raiders.

Sounds like colours from another Seattle team:

I wouldn't mind blue/green hoops, it would certainly be distinctive.

For better or for worse, Canberra would not be bound to any colours or symbolism like the Tassie team will be. Whoever creates the identity will pretty much be able to send it.

Re names, Canberra Colts, Canberra Cockatoos and Canberra Capitals could work. It may be sacrelig to revive the name but Canberra Koalas sounds nice. These are all pretty traditional sounding names but given that team 19 will (likely) be Tasmania Devils, the AFL might want something a little more off the wall and modern for team 20's name. Maybe something a bit more American or out there like NBL's Jackjumpers.

I was thinking the Seahawks too, but without the silver. I don't think silver suits AFL uniforms.

Colours like Woodville West-Torrens in the SANFL could work. Adds the ACT colours with the bush capital green.



In terms of names, I actually had to google, I didn't even know Canberra had koalas. I've seen roos and echidnas in my suburb, but koalas aren't overly common. Still good alliteration though.

As Bjo187 mentioned, I've also been keen on a blue and orange combo. I think it's a very underrated duo. I think if we weren't so close to GWS it'd be a good option.

I'm not normally a fan of metallic colours in guernseys, but the gold of the Vegas Knights would definitely be unique as Badger17 mentioned. I also had somebody mention pink as an option. I laughed at first, but a dark pink and black could look pretty cool and definitely unique in Australia. And if anybody would be willing to accept men in pink, it'd be Canberra.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Capitals is taken.

Warrigals would be a cool name for the team. That way you can have a Dingo as the mascot without it being really on the nose and warrigal also means untamed or savage, which would be a cool little double entendre.

BTW, how is Jackjumpers out there. Jack jumper ants are native to Tassie, famous for jumping, and are highly aggressive and dangerous. I can't think of a more perfect name for a Tasmanian basketball team.

I hadn't even heard that term before, but the Warrigals rolls off the tongue (if I'm saying it right). I do agree that the Dingos is a bit on the nose.

My vote is still for the Griffins. It's a hill I will die on. It's definitely unique in Australian sport and very Canberran. And bad-ass.

Colts, as almuz mentioned, is a cool name, but a male horse. I get it for historical teams like the Roosters or Rams, but we'd likely have an AFLW team early on, so might as well get something that suits them both (especially if the AFLW team ends up coming in first). I think Cockatoos would be a pretty popular name though.

 

[Badger17]

I only just read why for the first time. Apparently it was to combine the blue and yellow of the flag. It's used by Canberra United in the W-League, too. To me, it's still very Raiders and I can't disconnect the team from the colour.

I don't know who told you that, and maybe it was a factor, but it's not the whole truth either.

The Raiders are green because at the time they joined the NSWRL there were strict rules about what new clubs brands could be like. The NSWRL recognised that there were to many teams that's colours clashed in the comp and wanted to prevent more, so the new clubs (Raiders and Steelers) had to come up with colour schemes and jerseys that didn't clash with the existing club's on the field.

If Les Mcintyre (Raiders founder) had his way the Raiders would have been been sky blue and white like the Queanbeyan Blues, but sky blue and white clashed with Cronulla. They couldn't be Canberra's colours because that clashed with Parramatta. So the Raiders came up with a scheme of green, white, blue, and gold. Green and white were the colours of the first RL team in the region (Hall) and blue and gold are Canberra's colours. There was just one problem, Hall's shade of green was dark similar to the Rabbitohs, and they decided they needed a different shade so it wouldn't clash.

One day they were discussing this in Les's son John's office, where he kept a lime green couch, and John pointed at the couch and said something to the effect of 'how about that shade of green'. In other words the Raiders got their shade of green from a tacky couch.

They then created a rigged newspaper competition to make it seem like their brand came from the grassroots, when really all of if, except the name (that's it's own story), was selected by the club and approved by the NSWRL.

I'm not normally a fan of metallic colours in guernseys, but the gold of the Vegas Knights would definitely be unique as Badger17 mentioned. I also had somebody mention pink as an option. I laughed at first, but a dark pink and black could look pretty cool and definitely unique in Australia. And if anybody would be willing to accept men in pink, it'd be Canberra.

Pink and brown are the only colours not representing in AFL, or Australian sport more generally.

I wouldn't be opposed to either if was done well, I wouldn't be surprised if you might get some outcry in the community though.

 

[Canberra Pear]

I don't know who told you that, and maybe it was a factor, but it's not the whole truth either.

The Raiders are green because at the time they joined the NSWRL there were strict rules about what new clubs brands could be like. The NSWRL recognised that there were to many teams that's colours clashed in the comp and wanted to prevent more, so the new clubs (Raiders and Steelers) had to come up with colour schemes and jerseys that didn't clash with the existing club's on the field.

If Les Mcintyre (Raiders founder) had his way the Raiders would have been been sky blue and white like the Queanbeyan Blues, but sky blue and white clashed with Cronulla. They couldn't be Canberra's colours because that clashed with Parramatta. So the Raiders came up with a scheme of green, white, blue, and gold. Green and white were the colours of the first RL team in the region (Hall) and blue and gold are Canberra's colours. There was just one problem, Hall's shade of green was dark similar to the Rabbitohs, and they decided they needed a different shade so it wouldn't clash.

One day they were discussing this in Les's son John's office, where he kept a lime green couch, and John pointed at the couch and said something to the effect of 'how about that shade of green'. In other words the Raiders got their shade of green from a tacky couch.

They then created a rigged newspaper competition to make it seem like their brand came from the grassroots, when really all of if, except the name (that's it's own story), was selected by the club and approved by the NSWRL.

Pink and brown are the only colours not representing in AFL, or Australian sport more generally.

I wouldn't be opposed to either if was done well, I wouldn't be surprised if you might get some outcry in the community though.

Ahh, I had heard that story before, but I completely blanked. Great origin story.

The Sixers and Thunderbirds are both pink, but still not in the AFL. The Thunderbirds' black and pink looks pretty good. Hawthorn have brown, but it's just such a meh colour, should never be a main colour anyway.

Sky blue is pretty underutilised as well. The AFL goes heavy on the dark blues, but not so much the light stuff.

There are plenty of options for a team to choose. Just have to make sure a decent decision maker is in charge.

 

[Badger17]

If lime I agree it would be copying but they use all different greens these days and even added in navy blue, so I garauntee an AFL club using green would get that reaction.

Their being all different shades of light green has history as well.

BTW, the Raiders copying of the Seattle Seahawks has not been popular with most fans. There's a reason why they have been forced to keep the classic design and colours as their main jersey, and frankly they have the right to be protective of their legacy just as much as any other club and supporters group does.

The same as when gws were charcoal and orange they were accused of copying west tigers. There are only so many colours left.

Let's be honest, there's no way that West's brand didn't influence GWS's brand at least to some degree, and the same would be true of the Raiders influencing a Canberran AFL side if they chose green as a major colour in the colour scheme.

Now there's nothing wrong with having similar colours to other teams, but IMO it's better to do your own thing rather than copy other people in this regard. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery in part because it makes everybody else think of the person you are imitating.

 

[Badger17]

Ahh, I had heard that story before, but I completely blanked. Great origin story.

The Sixers and Thunderbirds are both pink, but still not in the AFL. The Thunderbirds' black and pink looks pretty good. Hawthorn have brown, but it's just such a meh colour, should never be a main colour anyway.

Sky blue is pretty underutilised as well. The AFL goes heavy on the dark blues, but not so much the light stuff.

There are plenty of options for a team to choose. Just have to make sure a decent decision maker is in charge.

Sky blue just makes me think of NSW.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Sky blue just makes me think of NSW.

Good call actually. I'd seen it so often on the NSW/ACT rep jumper that I'd forgot for a moment where it actually came from.

Interesting, Sheedy admitted well after that he backed the push for GWS to be black and orange as it was a blend of his two teams. Black and red, and black and yellow, from Essendon and Richmond.

 

[Bjo187]

Their being all different shades of light green has history as well.

BTW, the Raiders copying of the Seattle Seahawks has not been popular with most fans. There's a reason why they have been forced to keep the classic design and colours as their main jersey, and frankly they have the right to be protective of their legacy just as much as any other club and supporters group does.

Let's be honest, there's no way that West's brand didn't influence GWS's brand at least to some degree, and the same would be true of the Raiders influencing a Canberran AFL side if they chose green as a major colour in the colour scheme.

Now there's nothing wrong with having similar colours to other teams, but IMO it's better to do your own thing rather than copy other people in this regard. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery in part because it makes everybody else think of the person you are imitating.

I don't think you get what I'm saying, the AFL told the last expansion club it needs to have either orange or green as they are the only un- used colours. They went with orange because they thought it would stand out in the crowd more like the Netherlands football team. In sporting circles orange always goes with black or blue, they went with black because blue was used so frequently already in the competition. So a massive stretch and leaguie conspiracy to think they were copying 'west tigers' who aren't that popular of a team anyway.

On using green in Canberra, again it's the only colour left unused so will most likely be chosen. I'm sure in both instances they'd prefer to have a different colour to existing teams in the area, however to not clash with too many clubs in your own competition is much more important.

 

[Dirty Bird]

On gws I was listening to their podcast and it's always been the plan to shorter the name after about 10 years apparently. Has me wondering would it be better shortened to 'western sydney' or 'greater sydney' (apparently not allowed to use just Sydney as agreed with the swans). Option 1 gives more identity to the region, but there are barely any footy fans in western sydney, option 2 they lose their identity a bit but it allows them to pull fans from more AFL friendly areas like north sydney etc.

You say this

But look at this page

Western Sydney - AFL Sydney Juniors

Below is a list of clubs located in the Western Sydney region. To register with the club click ‘REGISTER NOW’ WOLLONDILLY REDBACKS REGISTER NOW Click here for a map

aflsj.com.au

17 Junior clubs in Western Sydney

8 of which wern't there when I left Sydney 14 years ago.
And of the 9 that were, only 3 (Baulkham Hills (then known as the Falcons), Penrith (then known as the Rams) and Hawksebury) pre-dated 2000.

 

[Dirty Bird]

I know north sydney relatively well they'd never support a team from west sydney or 'westies' as they call them, if it just appears as a second sydney team there is more chance they'll give it a go. Overall though I somewhat agree about identity being lost, but do they really have an identity in the ws community at the moment anyway?

This is 100% true

North Sydney and Western Sydney are as culturally different as Werribee is to St Kilda. Or Norwood is to Port Adelaide.

 

[Bjo187]

You say this

But look at this page

Western Sydney - AFL Sydney Juniors

Below is a list of clubs located in the Western Sydney region. To register with the club click ‘REGISTER NOW’ WOLLONDILLY REDBACKS REGISTER NOW Click here for a map

aflsj.com.au

17 Junior clubs in Western Sydney

8 of which wern't there when I left Sydney 14 years ago.
And of the 9 that were, only 3 (Baulkham Hills (then known as the Falcons), Penrith (then known as the Rams) and Hawksebury) pre-dated 2000.

Is that even that great of a result though? Over 10 years the AFL have poured hundreds of millions into the area, there are over 2 million people live in the area and gws don't seem to have increased their supporter base in the past 5 years at least. 8 new clubs is a few hundred more kids playing the game.

I honestly think a north sydney team would be double the size if they started at the same time, plus with the backing of the kangaroos giving them a supporter base in Melbourne too they would have taken that area from rugby union.

 

[Walshawk]

Is that even that great of a result though? Over 10 years the AFL have poured hundreds of millions into the area, there are over 2 million people live in the area and gws don't seem to have increased their supporter base in the past 5 years at least. 8 new clubs is a few hundred more kids playing the game.

I honestly think a north sydney team would be double the size if they started at the same time, plus with the backing of the kangaroos giving them a supporter base in Melbourne too they would have taken that area from rugby union.

No Vic club is ever going to move. North Sydney may be more popular than GWS (at least in the short tem), but they would not be bigger than North Melbourne. Don't waste your energy or posts thinking about that.
The whole sell in 2008 form the AFL to the clubs and the broadcasters was all about the 2m in WS. But alas we are stuck with GWS, so that ship has sailed.

Back to Canberra, they do not have a compelling case for a club, but after Tassie they are clearly the next best.
Giving each expansion option a score, I would say...
Tasmania 7/10 - 500K love footy
Gold Coast 7/10 - 550K almost half love footy, but growing fast and can draw on southern Brisbane & Northern NSW
Canberra - 5/10 - 500k maybe 40% love footy.
WS - 4/10 - 2m but at best 5% like footy. Going to be a very, very long hall
Newcastle - 500k 5% like footy
Darwin - 150k 70% love footy
NQ - Cairns has 170K maybe 20% like footy.

 

[Bjo187]

No Vic club is ever going to move. North Sydney may be more popular than GWS (at least in the short tem), but they would not be bigger than North Melbourne. Don't waste your energy or posts thinking about that.
The whole sell in 2008 form the AFL to the clubs and the broadcasters was all about the 2m in WS. But alas we are stuck with GWS, so that ship has sailed.

Back to Canberra, they do not have a compelling case for a club, but after Tassie they are clearly the next best.
Giving each expansion option a score, I would say...
Tasmania 7/10 - 500K love footy
Gold Coast 7/10 - 550K almost half love footy, but growing fast and can draw on southern Brisbane & Northern NSW
Canberra - 5/10 - 500k maybe 40% love footy.
WS - 4/10 - 2m but at best 5% like footy. Going to be a very, very long hall
Newcastle - 500k 5% like footy
Darwin - 150k 70% love footy
NQ - Cairns has 170K maybe 20% like footy.

Yeah just reflecting on mistakes I think were made. I think an offer of keeping their name 'north' and relocating to a closer location than gc, whilst retaining some Vic home games was a more attractive sell than the gold coast. I think it could have gotten through if at the time nmfc reflected on the success of South Melbourne moving to Sydney, it would have been a very attractive offer. Then you could have brought in gold coast and tassie and been at 18 teams with stronger second teams in both nsw and qld.