Expansion Canberra

[Canberra Pear]

Canberra has more AFL fans than any other unrepresented city. Canberra has more AFL fans than Darwin and even more than Hobart.

Sorry for the numbers-based post, but I’ve been researching.

Going by a metric measuring tipsters in each area, Canberra has more than four times as many AFL fans as Darwin and slightly more fans than Hobart. In fact, Canberra has almost three times as many fans as the whole NT.

I’ve done some digging on how many AFL tipsters live in each region (and are registered on tipping.afl.com.au). It’s not a perfect measure, but a good indication of people who are willing to devote a part of the week to AFL and commit to a whole season. It’s a good cross-section considering there are more than 290k registered tipsters.

Of those 290k, I’ve estimated numbers in each city were:
Canberra: 5,100*
Darwin 1,198
Hobart: 4,928

I’ve got these numbers based on the total within each state or territory and extrapolated it to the cities. *Canberra includes Queanbeyan directly across the border, but not about 70-80k people within in an hour’s drive. That would’ve brought Canberra’s total up to ~5,800 using the same measurement.

Obviously, this isn’t an absolute measure, but tipping requires time and effort each week and indicates underlying support. For Canberra to be so far ahead of Darwin in this area, is just another reason why it’s ridiculous that Canberra isn’t the number one choice for Team 20.

Edit: Went back over my working out, found an error, so edited the numbers accordingly

 

[Walshawk]

Canberra has more AFL fans than any other unrepresented city. Canberra has more AFL fans than Darwin and even more than Hobart.

Sorry for the numbers-based post, but I’ve been researching.

Going by a metric measuring tipsters in each area, Canberra has roughly FIVE times as many AFL fans as Darwin and 22% more fans than Hobart. In fact, Canberra has almost three times as many fans as the whole NT. Canberra almost has as many AFL fans as Hobart and Darwin combined.

I’ve done some digging on how many AFL tipsters live in each region (and are registered on tipping.afl.com.au). It’s not a perfect measure, but a good indication of people who are willing to devote a part of the week to AFL and commit to a whole season. It’s a good cross-section considering there are more than 290k registered tipsters.

Of those 290k, I’ve estimated numbers in each city were:
Canberra: 5,905*
Darwin 1,178
Hobart: 4,833

I’ve got these numbers based on the total within each state or territory and extrapolated it to the cities. *Canberra includes Queanbeyan directly across the border, but not about 70-80k people within in an hour’s drive. That would’ve brought Canberra’s total up to ~6,800 using the same measurement.

Obviously, this isn’t an absolute measure, but tipping requires time and effort each week and indicates underlying support. For Canberra to be so far ahead of Darwin in this area, is just another reason why it’s ridiculous that Canberra isn’t the number one choice for Team 20.

Do you have figure for other cities?

 

[Bjo187]

It's actually weird Canberra hasn't even been mentioned as to me it's the only logical choice for team 20. You'd hope it's been acknowledged internally at the AFL and they just don't want to mention it publically to affect gws support in the area. My best mate is in Darwin at the moment reckons it's absolutely bloody tiny, reminds him of Vanuatu, why don't we put a team there too

 

[Canberra Pear]

It's actually weird Canberra hasn't even been mentioned as to me it's the only logical choice for team 20. You'd hope it's been acknowledged internally at the AFL and they just don't want to mention it publically to affect gws support in the area. My best mate is in Darwin at the moment reckons it's absolutely bloody tiny, reminds him of Vanuatu, why don't we put a team there too

That's my hope as well.

I get not wanting to spook the GWS supporter base and utilise Canberra for as long as they can, but long-term, an exit would be better for GWS anyway.

I haven't been to Darwin, but that was my impression as well. I've been to Cairns and it's pretty much the same size as Darwin. To be mentioned below even North Queensland by Andrew Demetriou was ridiculous.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Do you have figure for other cities?

No I don't, sorry. They aren't official figures, just what I've been able to dig out.

tipping.afl.com.au wouldn’t give me much data so I had to do the digging and calculations just to get these. It was easier with these three cities as the primary cities of their state/territory. I couldn't do it with Cairns or Townsville for example.

I had to create dummy accounts to get the data myself. When you get your tips back, they tell you your position in the state/territory, but not out of how many. They do tell you your national position out of how many though, so I took my position within the state and compared it to how far down the ladder I was in the national total to get a rough estimate.

I made three dummy accounts (one each for the NT, Tas and ACT) and had them all as low as possible in the rankings to reduce the margin of error.

 

[Freomaniac]

Canberra has more AFL fans than any other unrepresented city. Canberra has more AFL fans than Darwin and even more than Hobart.

Sorry for the numbers-based post, but I’ve been researching.

Going by a metric measuring tipsters in each area, Canberra has roughly FIVE times as many AFL fans as Darwin and 22% more fans than Hobart. In fact, Canberra has almost three times as many fans as the whole NT. Canberra almost has as many AFL fans as Hobart and Darwin combined.

I’ve done some digging on how many AFL tipsters live in each region (and are registered on tipping.afl.com.au). It’s not a perfect measure, but a good indication of people who are willing to devote a part of the week to AFL and commit to a whole season. It’s a good cross-section considering there are more than 290k registered tipsters.

Of those 290k, I’ve estimated numbers in each city were:
Canberra: 5,905*
Darwin 1,178
Hobart: 4,833

I’ve got these numbers based on the total within each state or territory and extrapolated it to the cities. *Canberra includes Queanbeyan directly across the border, but not about 70-80k people within in an hour’s drive. That would’ve brought Canberra’s total up to ~6,800 using the same measurement.

Obviously, this isn’t an absolute measure, but tipping requires time and effort each week and indicates underlying support. For Canberra to be so far ahead of Darwin in this area, is just another reason why it’s ridiculous that Canberra isn’t the number one choice for Team 20.

Again a Major positive for Canberra getting a team in the AFL is they wont have to travel far when it comes to going to NSW, Victoria and SA

 

[almuz]

With Pocock's campaign there's been a bit more chat about a Canberra stadium in Civc of the Union/Rugba Leeg/round ball persuasion.

A new stadium would give the Brumbies and the Milk a decent sized boost in terms of support IMO and would make it tough to get funding for upgrades to Manuka in a few years time

I still think CBR makes the most sense as the 20th team but that move could make it a bit more difficult

 

[Walshawk]

With Pocock's campaign there's been a bit more chat about a Canberra stadium in Civc of the Union/Rugba Leeg/round ball persuasion.

A new stadium would give the Brumbies and the Milk a decent sized boost in terms of support IMO and would make it tough to get funding for upgrades to Manuka in a few years time

I still think CBR makes the most sense as the 20th team but that move could make it a bit more difficult

Civic site is small. Still, a 20K-22k roofed stadium @ Civic would be brilliant for Canberra. Can fit anything much bigger than that. Assuming Tas come in 2028, a 20th club could still be a long way down the track. Plenty of time to get the ducks in a row. I am not sure why Tasmania needed such a large, expensive stadium when their two existing grounds there hold 50% more than GWS will ever draw. Could Bruce Stadium be configured back to an oval?

 

[Bjo187]

Civic site is small. Still, a 20K-22k roofed stadium @ Civic would be brilliant for Canberra. Can fit anything much bigger than that. Assuming Tas come in 2028, a 20th club could still be a long way down the track. Plenty of time to get the ducks in a row. I am not sure why Tasmania needed such a large, expensive stadium when their two existing grounds there hold 50% more than GWS will ever draw. Could Bruce Stadium be configured back to an oval?

What's wrong with Manuka oval? Looks like it could be a quality stadium if upgraded.

 

[Walshawk]

What's wrong with Manuka oval? Looks like it could be a quality stadium if upgraded.

You will not be able to expand much - site is small, with limited car parking and very strong local resident group that will not allow too much development (e.g. over 20k or multi level carpark). Depending on the route of the next tramline extension that may help a bit with access, but if the AFL demands the same from Canberra (in terms of the stadium) as they have from Tassie (minimum 27.5K), it will need to be elsewhere.

 

[Canberra Pear]

What's wrong with Manuka oval? Looks like it could be a quality stadium if upgraded.

I personally quite like Manuka. I think there would be enough room on the site for a 20-25k stadium. The main issue would be transport. Locals aren't a fan of the cars that park down streets for kms around, that would be worse with a bigger stadium. The next phase of the light rail will alleviate it a bit, but they need a parking solution, too.

Could Bruce Stadium be configured back to an oval?

With Bruce, I think it might be cheaper to knock it down and just start again if they go there. To remove seats to the width necessary, the height would be way too high. But I'm not an infrastructure expert, though.

Another option I think might be looked into would be EPIC. It's the Canberra Showgrounds, already with a light rail station and decent parking. The showgrounds themselves could be upgraded like the Sydney Showgrounds with GWS. It would have to be built from scratch though so would probably need some contribution from the AFL.

Phillip Oval is also often floated for an upgrade. Will have a future light rail station, and next to Westfield so already has mass parking. It's already the home of AFL Canberra.

 

[Canberra Pear]

You will not be able to expand much - site is small, with limited car parking and very strong local resident group that will not allow too much development (e.g. over 20k or multi level carpark). Depending on the route of the next tramline extension that may help a bit with access, but if the AFL demands the same from Canberra (in terms of the stadium) as they have from Tassie (minimum 27.5K), it will need to be elsewhere.

I think it could be expanded, you might have to shift it slightly north and take over the pool. But I agree a carpark would be a big issue.

Thinking outside the box, but do you think parking could be worked into the outside of the stadium itself? There would be a lot of underutilised space under the seats.

 

[Walshawk]

I think it could be expanded, you might have to shift it slightly north and take over the pool. But I agree a carpark would be a big issue.

Thinking outside the box, but do you think parking could be worked into the outside of the stadium itself? There would be a lot of underutilised space under the seats.

You might have enough space for players and officials. If you are building somewhere from scratch you put car parking under the stadium - Marvel has 2500. I don't see why you need to start with a 27,500 stadium. You can easily and cheaply expand Manuka to 18K - 20K. In the early yeas surely 17k - 18k in a 20K stadium is better than 10K empty seats.

 

[Aussie in exile]

Canberra has more AFL fans than any other unrepresented city. Canberra has more AFL fans than Darwin and even more than Hobart.

Sorry for the numbers-based post, but I’ve been researching.

Going by a metric measuring tipsters in each area, Canberra has roughly FIVE times as many AFL fans as Darwin and 22% more fans than Hobart. In fact, Canberra has almost three times as many fans as the whole NT. Canberra almost has as many AFL fans as Hobart and Darwin combined.

I’ve done some digging on how many AFL tipsters live in each region (and are registered on tipping.afl.com.au). It’s not a perfect measure, but a good indication of people who are willing to devote a part of the week to AFL and commit to a whole season. It’s a good cross-section considering there are more than 290k registered tipsters.

Of those 290k, I’ve estimated numbers in each city were:
Canberra: 5,905*
Darwin 1,178
Hobart: 4,833

I’ve got these numbers based on the total within each state or territory and extrapolated it to the cities. *Canberra includes Queanbeyan directly across the border, but not about 70-80k people within in an hour’s drive. That would’ve brought Canberra’s total up to ~6,800 using the same measurement.

Obviously, this isn’t an absolute measure, but tipping requires time and effort each week and indicates underlying support. For Canberra to be so far ahead of Darwin in this area, is just another reason why it’s ridiculous that Canberra isn’t the number one choice for Team 20.

You need to post links not your estimates

 

[Aussie in exile]

That's my hope as well.

I get not wanting to spook the GWS supporter base and utilise Canberra for as long as they can, but long-term, an exit would be better for GWS anyway.

I haven't been to Darwin, but that was my impression as well. I've been to Cairns and it's pretty much the same size as Darwin. To be mentioned below even North Queensland by Andrew Demetriou was ridiculous.

A team in Canberra would in my opinion effectively kill off GWS without the money it gets from playing games in Canberra not unless AFL house gives them even more more money
The weather in Cairns wouldn't be favourable to a AFL team.

 

[almuz]

Civic site is small. Still, a 20K-22k roofed stadium @ Civic would be brilliant for Canberra. Can fit anything much bigger than that. Assuming Tas come in 2028, a 20th club could still be a long way down the track. Plenty of time to get the ducks in a row. I am not sure why Tasmania needed such a large, expensive stadium when their two existing grounds there hold 50% more than GWS will ever draw. Could Bruce Stadium be configured back to an oval?

Yeah don't get me wrong a rectangular stadium in Civic would be unreal for the city in general and for businesses on the weekend. And that is a good point that there is still heaps of time to get everything in order

As Canberra Pear said above re Bruce, I reckon they'd be better starting from scratch as there is space to work with out there even if they need to tinker around with buildings in that precinct. I'm biased being southside myself but I'd rather they add more seating in Manuka than do anything in Bruce/EPIC.

Three main issues with Manuka right now 1) too small for a full time AFL club 2) cold as * in winter 3) transport to the stadium

Issue one would be fixed with another stand or two, which in turn helps with issue 2. Also having day matches in winter helps issue 2. Re issue 3, I am not sure if the light rail will go through Manuka but hopefully at least Kingston or within vague walking distance of the ground.

 

[Cubs2Lions]

A team in Canberra would in my opinion effectively kill off GWS without the money it gets from playing games in Canberra not unless AFL house gives them even more more money.

If Canberra did end up becoming the 20th team in the future of the AFL competitions, surely GWS would just play lower-rating games elsewhere like in Newcastle, Central Coast or Wollongong instead, to help survive in the top league (providing the AFL funds the stadium reconstructions in those NSW cities).

Personally though, Canberra seems to be the most appropriate option out of all the choices for that 20th team slot, in terms of having a fair & ethical AFL competition for both male/female counterparts and the other advantages associated with them over the other options like NT & NQ, such as the weather (besides nights in winter), close to neighbouring states in New South Wales & Victoria and has excellent/world-class higher education and athletic facilities like Australian National University, University of Canberra & Australian Institute of Sport.

However, it just feels like (looking on the outside) that a full-time ACT team is still another 15-20 years for fruition and unless the AFL decide to keep the competitions at an odd number for an extended period of time after Tasmania has entered the competition in 2028 (against history), I think we'll most likely see ACT representation in the AFL in the 2040s/2050s as that 21st or 22nd team, while a combined team of Northern Territory/North Queensland will "most likely" enter the AFL as that 20th team around the early-mid 2030s due to AFL's chance of hopefully gaining stadium/resource funding over in Queensland for the 2032 Olympics (rightly or wrongly decision).

One thing that does intrigue me though is what the AFL landscape would have looked like, if North Melbourne decide to relocate to Canberra in the early 2000s (when they were simply known as the Kangaroos) and if the AFL would have be better off long-term in the AFL competitions and how much of an increase the participation/membership/viewership numbers of people being involved would have been in the sport in the Canberra/ACT region compared to right now without a full-time team representing them.

 

[Canberra Pear]

You need to post links not your estimates

I personally asked for numbers and tipping.afl.com.au couldn't provide them for each state, so I've had to do the calculations myself, but I'll show my working out.

I created three dummy accounts registered in each of the states/territories. I created them late in the season and tipped poorly so they would remain towards the bottom of the ladder to reduce the margin of error.


Northern Territory





My Northern Territory account was 2014th in the territory, 284944th in the country.

I divided the total number of tipsters with my national position, then multiplied my NT position to get a better figure of the total NT.

290310 / 284944 x 2014 = 2051.9 tipsters in the NT

I then took the NT's total and shrunk it to Darwin's size. It's not going to be as exact, which is why I've continued to say estimate.

147,531 (Darwin population) / 252,770 (NT population) = 58.4. Darwin makes up 58.4% of the NT population.

2051.9 x 58.4% = 1,197.6.

Therefore Darwin would have roughly 1,198 tipsters.


Australian Capital Territory





My ACT account was 4642th in the territory and 288597th in the country.

290310 / 288597 x 4642 = 4669.55 tipsters in the ACT

467,000 (Canberra-Queanbeyan population) / 427,595 (ACT population) = 1.092. Canberra is 9.2% more populous than the ACT.

1.092 x 4669.55 (ACT tipsters) = 5099.9.

Therefore there would be roughly 5,100 tipsters in Canberra.

I only used the population for Canberra-Queanbeyan because they were the only official numbers I could get. There would be another 70k or so people within an hour (Yass, Googong, Murrumbateman, Bungendore etc). With the same per capita, that would equal another 700-800 tipsters.


Tasmania




My Tasmanian account was 10740th in the state and 284866th in the country.

290310 / 284866 x 10740 = 10,949.25 tipsters in Tasmania (unsurprisingly the highest of the three tested)

542,000 (Tasmania population) / 244,054 (Hobart population) = 45.04. Hobart makes up 45.04% of Tasmania's population.

45% of the 10,949 tipsters is 4,928.47

So Hobart's total of tipsters (if everything remains perfectly per capita) is 4,928.


So comparatively there is
Darwin: 1,198
Canberra: 5,100
Hobart: 4,928

I would have loved official numbers and links to give you, but I've had to make do. Obviously, it's not a perfect measure. The cities aren't going to be perfectly in unison with the per capita of their whole state / territory. But considering how small the sample sizes of other surveys are, I think this gives a great indication of overall support in these cities.

 

[Canberra Pear]

A team in Canberra would in my opinion effectively kill off GWS without the money it gets from playing games in Canberra not unless AFL house gives them even more more money
The weather in Cairns wouldn't be favourable to a AFL team.

Effectively repeating what Cubs2Lions said about GWS, but there are other options out there. Newcastle has just upgraded its stadium specifically for AFL dimensions. I'm sure they'd be keen to show it wasn't in vain and have some games there.

GWS has also been keen on a USA game, which will be hard while they're still in Canberra, as they've only got so many games they can take away from their Western Sydney fans.

The GWS-Canberra relationship isn't that valuable. It's $2.3 million a year. A bunch is that is earmarked for local player development, so it ends up being about $400k per AFL men's game. Compared to $1m or so per men's game North and Hawthorn are getting. GWS also has wealthy backers. They've paid $2.4m just for the naming rights of the home ground.

But long-term, I don't think GWS can afford NOT to leave Canberra. They're not endearing as many Western Sydney fans as they could with one toe in Canberra. They receive a lot of flack for it. GWS won't be big until they leave Canberra and fully embrace Sydney.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Yeah don't get me wrong a rectangular stadium in Civic would be unreal for the city in general and for businesses on the weekend. And that is a good point that there is still heaps of time to get everything in order

As Canberra Pear said above re Bruce, I reckon they'd be better starting from scratch as there is space to work with out there even if they need to tinker around with buildings in that precinct. I'm biased being southside myself but I'd rather they add more seating in Manuka than do anything in Bruce/EPIC.

Three main issues with Manuka right now 1) too small for a full time AFL club 2) cold as fu** in winter 3) transport to the stadium

Issue one would be fixed with another stand or two, which in turn helps with issue 2. Also having day matches in winter helps issue 2. Re issue 3, I am not sure if the light rail will go through Manuka but hopefully at least Kingston or within vague walking distance of the ground.

Bruce also gets complaints from Raiders fans. Not being near restaurants/bars/transport etc. We'd have those same problems.

Manuka is much more central. I'm Gungahlin-based and fine getting down to Manuka, but would feel for anybody from Tuggeranong getting up to EPIC. Agree with the first two points. Capacity would obviously have to be upgraded and the cold could be avoided with strategic fixturing. Although some stadiums in the northern hemisphere have started installing heating, which could help. Canberra remains pretty dry in the winter, so it's just the temperature which is the issue.

As for the public transport, the below is the planned route for phase 2B of the light rail (the green circle is obviously the stadium). The blue line is the fed's preferred route. It will have a station within 1km of the stadium (the red circle). The ACT govt's preferred route juts into the parliamentary zone along the national circuit. Their preferred route brings a station within 550m of the stadium (the purple circle). The likely option at the moment is the fed's preferred route as it costs less.

My dream scenario is the orange circle. It's along the ACT govt's preferred route, but moves the station just down the road. It would create a straight line, just 400m down Fitzroy Street. It'd be perfect, make it pedestrian-only on game days.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

That's my hope as well.

I get not wanting to spook the GWS supporter base and utilise Canberra for as long as they can, but long-term, an exit would be better for GWS anyway.

I haven't been to Darwin, but that was my impression as well. I've been to Cairns and it's pretty much the same size as Darwin. To be mentioned below even North Queensland by Andrew Demetriou was ridiculous.

Why was it ridiculous?

I lived in Canberra for a number of years, albeit not in the past 20 and the prevailing attitude of locals was always, 'we deserve a team in every national competition because we're the nation's capital'.

Yes Australian rules has a strong following there and their local comp was quite good in the late 80s and 90s, but like everything else in Canberra, they get bored after a while and history tells us they will stop going. Look at the Raiders and the Brumbies in particular who have fallen off a cliff since their halcyon days of the late 90s / early 00s. The Canberra Capitals playing basketball disappeared altogether, the Canberra Comets for cricket were short lived, how about the NSW / ACT Rams in the TAC U/18 Cup? I remember watching a game in Queanbeyan against the Dandenong Stingrays with Fevola playing it, he destroyed them.

 

[DEVO]

Why was it ridiculous?

I lived in Canberra for a number of years, albeit not in the past 20 and the prevailing attitude of locals was always, 'we deserve a team in every national competition because we're the nation's capital'.

Yes Australian rules has a strong following there and their local comp was quite good in the late 80s and 90s, but like everything else in Canberra, they get bored after a while and history tells us they will stop going. Look at the Raiders and the Brumbies in particular who have fallen off a cliff since their halcyon days of the late 90s / early 00s. The Canberra Capitals playing basketball disappeared altogether, the Canberra Comets for cricket were short lived, how about the NSW / ACT Rams in the TAC U/18 Cup? I remember watching a game in Queanbeyan against the Dandenong Stingrays with Fevola playing it, he destroyed them.

The Canberra Capitals haven't disappeared at all, in fact they have won nine titles in the last 25 years and made the playoffs again this season. They too have been battling with the ACT Government about a new stadium, or at least upgrades to the current stadium. It was the Cannons that disappeared, they got into financial issues in the early 00's and their licence was shipped off to Newcastle and then Singapore IIRC.

Not entirely sure why the Comets were kicked out, I'm guessing it was primarily because the quality of local talent, but it took Tasmania decades to be competitive and 30 years to win title, yet we only three or four years. The Sheffield Shield needs to be expanded to seven teams and BBL and WBBL should also have a Canberra team, but then I think every National competition should have a team from the National Capital.

One of the problems the Raiders and Brumbies have had to deal with, and perhaps it may be an issue for an AFL team as well, is most people in the city already followed a team when they entered the competition, it's starting to change now as both teams have been around for a generation or two and it has been showing as the crowd averages were increasing before Covid. The Raiders were back up to around 15,000 in 2019 which is mid table amongst NRL averages that year.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Why was it ridiculous?

I lived in Canberra for a number of years, albeit not in the past 20 and the prevailing attitude of locals was always, 'we deserve a team in every national competition because we're the nation's capital'.

Yes Australian rules has a strong following there and their local comp was quite good in the late 80s and 90s, but like everything else in Canberra, they get bored after a while and history tells us they will stop going. Look at the Raiders and the Brumbies in particular who have fallen off a cliff since their halcyon days of the late 90s / early 00s. The Canberra Capitals playing basketball disappeared altogether, the Canberra Comets for cricket were short lived, how about the NSW / ACT Rams in the TAC U/18 Cup? I remember watching a game in Queanbeyan against the Dandenong Stingrays with Fevola playing it, he destroyed them.

It's ridiculous for many reasons.

Compared to Cairns (where the team would most likely be based), Canberra has:

• Triple the population
• Quadruple the economy
• 52% higher crowds
• Hosted four times as many AFL games

Andrew Demetriou said NQ, WA3 and the NT were the only "logical" choices. And it is absolutely ridiculous for Canberra to not be considered logical beside NQ.

Canberra don't deserve a team because we're the national capital, we just make the most sense of any unrepresented area (excluding Tasmania).

 

[Canberra Pear]

One of the problems the Raiders and Brumbies have had to deal with, and perhaps it may be an issue for an AFL team as well, is most people in the city already followed a team when they entered the competition, it's starting to change now as both teams have been around for a generation or two and it has been showing as the crowd averages were increasing before Covid. The Raiders were back up to around 15,000 in 2019 which is mid table amongst NRL averages that year.

That's one of the benefits Canberra would have over Tasmania (still not saying we should get a team before they do). The stats above show Canberra has roughly the same amount of AFL fans as Hobart, most of which would already have a team. But with roughly double the population, it shows there are so many people without an AFL team. And if they can be brought to AFL, Canberra will be their #1 team.

It's a bit of a middle ground bid between GWS and Tasmania. More initial support and easier to start up than GWS, but more room to grow than Tasmania.

 

[Walshawk]

It's ridiculous for many reasons.

Compared to Cairns (where the team would most likely be based), Canberra has:

• Triple the population
• Quadruple the economy
• 52% higher crowds
• Hosted four times as many AFL games

Andrew Demetriou said NQ, WA3 and the NT were the only "logical" choices. And it is absolutely ridiculous for Canberra to not be considered logical beside NQ.

Canberra don't deserve a team because we're the national capital, we just make the most sense of any unrepresented area (excluding Tasmania).

Andy D ain’t as smart as he thinks he is. He says repeatedly that a 19th team does not any extra games, that you need a 20th team for extra games/TV revenue. Everyone else gets it, but not AD.

It is a massive furphy that footy is popular in NQ. Yes, all the Vic expats working up there in hospitality and tourism pack out their 10k stadium once a year and fill the local teams with players, but Caines is a small city that mainly follows RL. Townsville even more so.

And I love that people are worried that it is 200km from Hobart to Launceston but think it Ok that Darwin and Cairns are 2,000km apart. Eddie has said that it is not on for a Tasmanian teams to share home grounds two hours apart. Next breath he thinks a Darwin/Cain’s combo is a winner. A Top End team is a most rediculous concept and has no merit at all.

WA3 would always struggle. There would be very few footy fans there willing to change clubs. Just because WC are so strong does not mean a third team would be popular. They already have Freo who after 30 years are still not half as Popular. Do the WA3 fans dump their beloved WC, or decimate Freo? Not a good idea.

We don’t need a 20th team, but if we did, Canberra is the best and possibly only option.