Love to see the ACT Gov push hard for Giants v Pies Friday Night early in the year. Think it would be great for the city.
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Expansion Canberra
- Thread starter Johnny Bananas
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Just a graph I put together, which is a bit of a downer for the pro-Canberra AFL team advocates.
Whilst Canberra is growing, it is way behind the big 5 capital cities and the Gold Coast. It’s one thing to say, look how fast this one place is growing, but it is good to compare how much everywhere else is growing too.
Even with Perth and Adelaide having two teams 3 decades ago, the share of population at the time was still larger than what Canberra is now.
This also makes things less favourable for other candidates like Sunshine Coast and Newcastle.
You can accept Gold Coast got a team because of how much the region is growing.
The only thing working in Tasmania’s favour is their history and political will. But Tasmania used to be bigger in comparison to elsewhere in Australia, their slow population growth for multiple decades has really left them behind.
View attachment 1817127
You really are hard pressed for future teams, as should we really be lowering the bar for entry, when each of the existing teams are just getting bigger and stronger?
Sources for population, you may say they are a bit out here and there, but they show the overall trends:
About the forecast areas | Australia | Population forecast
forecast.id.com.au
I've replied in more detail on the 20th team thread, but these numbers don't include ~20% of our population across the NSW border and also don't keep up with the ACT treasury's population predictions.
Good graphs for an interesting comparison, but some asterisks needed. These graphs would be so much easier if we just annexed our border towns already.
That'd be overflowing! Even bigger than the Richmond match in 2016.
Can't see it happening though. I reckon there'll be a bigger focus to grow the Sydney game next year, so all the big games will go there (as always).
But you're right, I'd love to see them push for a big team. We pay the money, and the major justification for funding is tourism, we should be getting value for money.
In 2024 a Friday night game against Collingwood or Carlton at Manuka around Easter time, weather would still be good, then have the game against Suns, Freo, etc later in the year. put up a done, camera shots of the city, easy way to market the city for tourism.
Have a few of them & maybe it provides justification to get some money to build a new stand to increase capacity down the track.
Have a few of them & maybe it provides justification to get some money to build a new stand to increase capacity down the track.
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MelbourneGWS
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The Giants have played 33 games over 11 years (2020 had no games due to Covid) in our Manuka Canberra home ground since 2012.
Our opponents have been;
5 teams have never played in Canberra since 2012 - Sydney, Collingwood, Carlton, Essendon and West Coast.
Note that whilst Sydney (12 times), West Coast (4 times) and Collingwood (just once) have played in Canberra pre-Giants, Carlton and Essendon have never ever played an AFL game for points in Canberra.
Our opponents have been;
- 7 times: Western Bulldogs
- 4: Melbourne and Gold Coast
- 3: Port Adelaide, St Kilda, Geelong and Fremantle
- 2: Brisbane
- 1: Richmond, North Melbourne, Adelaide and Hawthorn
5 teams have never played in Canberra since 2012 - Sydney, Collingwood, Carlton, Essendon and West Coast.
Note that whilst Sydney (12 times), West Coast (4 times) and Collingwood (just once) have played in Canberra pre-Giants, Carlton and Essendon have never ever played an AFL game for points in Canberra.
Good summary.
Against the five largest membership bases, the Giants have only hosted one solitary match in Canberra.
And Sydney used to be the biggest-drawing team, and we obviously can't host them any more.
The Giants get more funding than the Raiders because "AFL fans travel more". We really should be pushing for a bigger team at least every two years to justify that.
MelbourneGWS
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I know it’s another code (and struggling Rugby Union as well), but there seems to be speculation that Rugby Union has centralisation plans. Also conjecture that 5 super rugby teams is probably 1 too many, and despite the success of the Brumbies in that code, they will be the first team to be merged/ relocated if Rugby Union goes down the path. Our Chief Minister Barr it seems wont commit to a new stadium, if there’s no commitment to a long term tenure in Canberra for the Brumbies
the-riotact.com
Here we go again with rumours and speculation about the future of the Brumbies | Region Canberra
Here we go again with rumours and speculation about the future of the Brumbies. It's tough being a rugby supporter…
the-riotact.com
I know it’s another code (and struggling Rugby Union as well), but there seems to be speculation that Rugby Union has centralisation plans. Also conjecture that 5 super rugby teams is probably 1 too many, and despite the success of the Brumbies in that code, they will be the first team to be merged/ relocated if Rugby Union goes down the path. Our Chief Minister Barr it seems wont commit to a new stadium, if there’s no commitment to a long term tenure in Canberra for the Brumbies
Here we go again with rumours and speculation about the future of the Brumbies | Region Canberra
Here we go again with rumours and speculation about the future of the Brumbies. It's tough being a rugby supporter…
Out of curiousity, is there a reason why the existing rectangular stadium couldn't be used ?
My understanding was the rectangular stadium was converted for rectangular sports which has essentially had the impact of putting the brakes on AFL growth in CBR for some time when converted. Apologies if incorrect - was doing some light reading when reading about the Barassi line.
I know it’s another code (and struggling Rugby Union as well), but there seems to be speculation that Rugby Union has centralisation plans. Also conjecture that 5 super rugby teams is probably 1 too many, and despite the success of the Brumbies in that code, they will be the first team to be merged/ relocated if Rugby Union goes down the path. Our Chief Minister Barr it seems wont commit to a new stadium, if there’s no commitment to a long term tenure in Canberra for the Brumbies
Here we go again with rumours and speculation about the future of the Brumbies | Region Canberra
Here we go again with rumours and speculation about the future of the Brumbies. It's tough being a rugby supporter…
That would strengthen the case for a Canberra AFL team in my opinion.
Absolutely.
I'm not an advocate for axing the Brumbies. I think Canberra's all the better for having them.
But, if the Brumbies do get axed, the AFL should pounce as quick as they can.
As Sydney has shown, there seems to be a shorter journey from union to AFL fandom than league to AFL. An AFL team could sweep up a lot of that (and corporate support too).
It would definitely make the stadium game interesting, too. An A-League team is likely in the next few years, which would give Bruce two main tenants. If we get an AFL and BBL team, Manuka would be of similar importance with two tenants.
I still don't think the Brumbies are going anywhere, but I guess we'll see how things unfold.
MelbourneGWS
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Behind a paywall, but seems there is turmoil in Canberra soccer.
Seems the Canberra football board axed the Canberra United Academy (CUA), where promising girl players were selected and played together in the local ACT competition and developed by Canberra United, our only team in the elite (female) national soccer competition. The CUA is to be effectively disbanded, and players are now to be distributed to local Canberra clubs, with a Talented Program to undertake the development work that CUA did.
It seems that whilst the decision was almost unanimous by the Canberra board, the CEO was against it and now is threatening to resign if it’s not reversed. The Canberra soccer community is also divided with the parents of the CUA players (naturally) most upset.
Canberra soccer was to have a men’s team in the expanded Aleague expansion in 2024-25, which will complement the Canberra United team that we have in Aleague Womens. We were also going to have a team from Canberra in the second division (effectively ALeague Reserves) which was to be established next year.
Slavich was one of the key driving force for the inclusion of a Canberra team in the elite ALeague men’s competition, and also a team in the newly established Reserves competition. This turmoil does not augur well for the future of Canberra soccer, especially with decisions on the selection of the Aleague Men’s expansion and the Reserve competition to be made soon.
www.canberratimes.com.au
Seems the Canberra football board axed the Canberra United Academy (CUA), where promising girl players were selected and played together in the local ACT competition and developed by Canberra United, our only team in the elite (female) national soccer competition. The CUA is to be effectively disbanded, and players are now to be distributed to local Canberra clubs, with a Talented Program to undertake the development work that CUA did.
It seems that whilst the decision was almost unanimous by the Canberra board, the CEO was against it and now is threatening to resign if it’s not reversed. The Canberra soccer community is also divided with the parents of the CUA players (naturally) most upset.
Canberra soccer was to have a men’s team in the expanded Aleague expansion in 2024-25, which will complement the Canberra United team that we have in Aleague Womens. We were also going to have a team from Canberra in the second division (effectively ALeague Reserves) which was to be established next year.
Slavich was one of the key driving force for the inclusion of a Canberra team in the elite ALeague men’s competition, and also a team in the newly established Reserves competition. This turmoil does not augur well for the future of Canberra soccer, especially with decisions on the selection of the Aleague Men’s expansion and the Reserve competition to be made soon.
Uncertainty mounts over Slavich's future
Capital Football could soon be searching for a new boss.
Maybe. But the financial struggles and lack of corporate support of the Brumbies is also concerning. AFL would need to be quick if the Brumbies folded. They could start by moving two or three Hawks games there (assuming Tassie still goes ahead).
My understanding is that the Brumbies are actually the best-run Super Rugby club in Australia. Them folding or relocating would be no way an indictment on the club or Canberra.
But they're not one of the big two in the boys' club of Queensland and NSW, so that leaves them vulnerable if a shake up happens.
MelbourneGWS
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Don’t follow Rugby Union (Soccer, and Aussie Rules are my sports), but from what I understand, the Brumbies together with NSW and Queensland were one of the original Super Rugby teams and are the most successful in terms of championships.
Union then expanded to Melbourne and Western Australia, but had to axe a team in 2017 when the Southern Hemisphere based Super Rugby competition contracted. Union HQ axed Western Force, presumably because the Brumbies were stronger onfield and off field, and Melbourne had more upside. Unfortunately for Union, the billionaire Andrew Forrest and WA supporters (seems there’s a lot of Union loving South African migrants there) fought back, with Forrest (and his companies) bankrolling a separate global rebel league that Western Force could play in! After COVID there was a rationalisation, with the Western Force back in a reconstituted Oceania based Super Rugby competition.
Seems this Oceania based Super Rugby is not going well, and there’s call for rationalisation again. If this eventuates, with their fingers burnt by taking on Western Force previously, it will probably be the Brumbies who will get the bullet, as Union HQ will need Melbourne to maintain any pretence of a national competition.
That's more or less my understanding, too.
When it comes to participation, I think the ACT is the only "rugby territory" where union is greater than league. And significantly so.
The Brumbies are well run (I think) and have the foundations. It would be a travesty if it were lost.
But if the rationalisation axe comes, Canberra is in the firing line.
Queensland and NSW are too big to fail. No matter how poorly run.
Victoria is too big to not be represented. Melbourne just became the biggest city.
WA was axed last time. And to me, makes the most sense again. WA probably has more potential due to overall size, but Canberra as a current product is such an asset.
I've diverged too much on an AFL forum, but Super Rugby would be losing an incredible asset if they axed the Brumbies. But it would definitely be beneficial for any AFL side.
MelbourneGWS
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ABC article that points out our capital is unique in that it has been very supportive of female teams at the elite national level. If there was a standalone AFLW team, I have no doubt that Canberra would have one.
In a sporting landscape unlike any other in the country, the three main summer sporting codes – cricket, basketball and football – are represented in elite national competitions by women, without an equivalent men's team.
www.abc.net.au
In a sporting landscape unlike any other in the country, the three main summer sporting codes – cricket, basketball and football – are represented in elite national competitions by women, without an equivalent men's team.
The city where women’s elite sporting teams survive while men’s sides come and go
This Australian city has elite women's basketball, cricket and soccer teams with no equivalent men's sides, bucking the national trend.
www.abc.net.au
ABC article that points out our capital is unique in that it has been very supportive of female teams at the elite national level. If there was a standalone AFLW team, I have no doubt that Canberra would have one.
In a sporting landscape unlike any other in the country, the three main summer sporting codes – cricket, basketball and football – are represented in elite national competitions by women, without an equivalent men's team.
The city where women’s elite sporting teams survive while men’s sides come and go
This Australian city has elite women's basketball, cricket and soccer teams with no equivalent men's sides, bucking the national trend.
The article doesn't mention it, but Canberra has most of GWS' largest AFLW crowds, too.
I think, if Canberra were to come in as Team 20, it would make a lot of sense to have an AFLW team to come in early.
We get behind women's sport, and it would give the AFLW team a few years of clean air. And Manuka is a great size already for AFLW.
I'd also get behind a standalone AFLW team. Not sure if the AFL would allow it, but it's worked pretty well with Canberra United.
The Raiders do like to complain about this, but it ignores that the biggest piece of government support they get is concessional land arrangements that they have been able to turn into their own money making assets. They'd definitely be making more than 2m a year off the real estate portfolio they've built up, especially that stuff in Braddon.
The Brumbies are similar, selling their original space off and moving into accommodation at UC.
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Do you think a Canberra AFL team would get any similar property benefits from the government? Or has that ship sailed?
I assume they'd at least get a good price on renting Manuka.
I won't happen, but if the Brumbies were axed, I think Canberra should come before Tasmania (still in the same round though).
There would be a vacuum of sports fans in Canberra. A new AFL team would be the obvious fit, similar to how many Swans fans are/were Waratahs fans.
But without a team, Brumbies fans might drift to the Raiders as their new primary team.
That would be too good a timing to pass up, but I imagine there'd be mass outrage if Tasmania had to wait a couple of years more for the 20th team.
How long would it take to upgrade Manuka, though?
Biggest tragedy in the Super Rugby is no Adelaide or Tiger team 
Anyway, yes a standalone AFLW team for Canberra can work. Basically go the same route Canberra United. But there will need to be men's team eventually.
Anyway, yes a standalone AFLW team for Canberra can work. Basically go the same route Canberra United. But there will need to be men's team eventually.
MelbourneGWS
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Not the scope of this thread, but the AFL could have used the new AFLW competition to re-imagine the current club based system, rather than replicating it - they could thus have reduced the number of Victorian teams and have teams from Tasmania, ACT and possibly NT/ North Queensland in the AFLW. If this had occurred, Canberra would have had an AFLW team
Yeah, not sure about that one.
I assume less time than a knock-down/rebuild as you'd mostly only need to do the eastern side (and there's not a lot to knock down). But I assume at least a year.
The politics behind it though would probably take longer than the actual construction.