Expansion Canberra

[MelbourneGWS]

Behind a paywall but someone who subscribes maybe able to post relevant snippets- seems Canberra’s Aleague Men’s entry into the national competition has been delayed yet again. There will be increased pressure on the ACT Government to fund Canberra United, our A League female team, for another year.

Canberra A-League bid delayed again. Here's what that means for United

A Canberra A-League Men's team is off until the 2026/27 season.

www.canberratimes.com.au

 

[Canberra Pear]

Behind a paywall but someone who subscribes maybe able to post relevant snippets- seems Canberra’s Aleague Men’s entry into the national competition has been delayed yet again.

There will be no Canberra A-League Men's team in the 2025/26 competition after the transfer window closed on Wednesday.
It's hoped that isn't a death knell for A-League Women's team Canberra United, with discussions underway for Capital Football to remain at the helm for another year.

The Australian Professional Leagues, who run both the ALM and the A-League Women, have made the call to instead aim for the Canberra bid to enter the 2026/27 season.
They haven't turned their back on introducing a Canberra ALM team and were in discussions with four interested parties as they continue to try and lock down an owner.

There have been murmurings of places like the Gold Coast and Wollongong looking to jump ahead of the capital in the ALM queue.
But the focus is still on making the ACT work.

"We are working with Capital Football, and a number of stakeholders, to explore options to help them continue to operate a women's team next season until a long-term owner is in place," the spokesperson said.

Not much has changed. Still pussyfooting around with the owners. The comments I've read have said the APL could have just founded the club, and then sold it, like they did with the Wanderers, but they're just being greedy holding out for the big investors.

Interesting line about Wollongong and Gold Coast waiting in the wings. Could leapfrog Canberra if they don't get it done.

 

[Badger17]

Not much has changed. Still pussyfooting around with the owners. The comments I've read have said the APL could have just founded the club, and then sold it, like they did with the Wanderers, but they're just being greedy holding out for the big investors.

Interesting line about Wollongong and Gold Coast waiting in the wings. Could leapfrog Canberra if they don't get it done.

I can't imagine that Wollongong or the GC would have any more luck finding an investor willing to pay a $25mil license fee than Canberra's having. I guess not having to screw around trying to integrate an unviable women's team would be a bonus.

The APL don't need to go to the trouble of founding the club themselves either. All they need to do is reduce the ridiculous license fee.

 

[Bjo187]

Licence fees in general are a money grab from sporting organisations and it's even worse when governments pay for them, it's a disgraceful misuse of tax payer dollars imo.

 

[Badger17]

Licence fees in general are a money grab from sporting organisations and it's even worse when governments pay for them, it's a disgraceful misuse of tax payer dollars imo.

The NRL is trying to extort WA at the moment.

$120mil, a stadium upgrade, match grassroots and junior investment, and in return the Bears will play 8 to 10 games in Perth a season until the Daily Tele can twist public opinion enough to justify the Bears relocating back to NSW fulltime.

WA are mugs if they fall for it.

 

[speedpeck23]

There's no reason why a Canberra team, or any of the other existing clubs for that matter, couldn't be as effective at increasing "indigenous recognition", whatever you mean by that, in the AFL as an NT side.

The NT having the highest percentage of indigenous people per capita doesn't necessarily mean that a club in the NT would benefit indigenous recognition either. In fact it's almost a given that they'd abandon any strict adherence to that sort of ideological agenda in pursuit of being as competitive as possible.

I reject the idea that indigenous recognition is an imperative as well. In fact it's not even on the list of most important things when it comes to considering locations for expansion. Put simply, it's impossible for a club to increase indigenous recognition if it isn't financially viable.

This sort of tokenistic, race huckster, style of grifting is societal cancer that shouldn't be encouraged anyway. If an NT AFL side ever eventuates it should be a club for all the people of the NT, not a pseudo racial/ethnic team for the indigenous population. You're treading on borderline segregationist, and deeply regressive, ground here.

You misunderstand me.

In my view a team for the NT would be a team for all of the NT. Its all about inclusion.

Both regions are geographically, politically and socially significant for Australia.

As the name of the competition is the Australian Football League and the sport is Australian Rules Football it stands to reason that in the interests of inclusion it is logical to at least aim to have both regions represented in the AFL.

Who knows one day there may be a team representing NT and a team representing Canberra. How that looks ultimately is not knowable. That doesn't mean you shouldn't contemplate it.

 

[Bjo187]

The NRL is trying to extort WA at the moment.

$120mil, a stadium upgrade, match grassroots and junior investment, and in return the Bears will play 8 to 10 games in Perth a season until the Daily Tele can twist public opinion enough to justify the Bears relocating back to NSW fulltime.

WA are mugs if they fall for it.

Yep I saw that, extrodinary demands and Cook seems like he has fallen for it. The nrl need to go to w.a anyway, particularly after the criticism they got for selecting png first. It's baffling that the w.a government doesn't realise that they barely have to contribute anything to get a side.

The other thing is, I'm pretty sure North Sydney has a pokies establishment. If they do, it's not a good look giving hundreds of millions of w.a state money to a club that already makes money off gambling revenue, in a state on the other side of the country.

 

[Colonial]

NRL has never been about growth or future proofing.
Only about keeping the Sydney and QLD clubs happy.
It’s why there was a SL war, it’s why nothing changed when it ended and gave the sport a blank slate.

Love the game, and my club, but geez there is zero actual leadership for a “National” comp. Only the APL with the A-Leagues is more inept.

 

[Badger17]

Yep I saw that, extrodinary demands and Cook seems like he has fallen for it. The nrl need to go to w.a anyway, particularly after the criticism they got for selecting png first. It's baffling that the w.a government doesn't realise that they barely have to contribute anything to get a side.

The other thing is, I'm pretty sure North Sydney has a pokies establishment. If they do, it's not a good look giving hundreds of millions of w.a state money to a club that already makes money off gambling revenue, in a state on the other side of the country.

The V'landys types in Sydney don't care about Perth or a national audience, only about maintaining their influence over the sport. Perth are only part of the discussions because the old boys can use them as a means to get the Bears back into the competition. It appeases to the nostalgia of the over 50s from Sydney demographic that they represent.

If the NRL were serious about expansion teams 17 to 20 would have been Perth, Adelaide, and a second Brisbane and NZ side each. Instead they're going with the Dolphins and Bears to appeal to the boomers, and PNG because it's easy and non-threatening.

The way they're intentionally mismanaging expansion is one of the main reasons why I have next to no interest in the NRL anymore. Well, that and the open Sydney first agenda and Peter's desecration of the rules.

The NRL isn't really worth your time unless you live in the trashy parts of Sydney or Brisbane.

 

[Badger17]

You misunderstand me.

In my view a team for the NT would be a team for all of the NT. Its all about inclusion.

Both regions are geographically, politically and socially significant for Australia.

As the name of the competition is the Australian Football League and the sport is Australian Rules Football it stands to reason that in the interests of inclusion it is logical to at least aim to have both regions represented in the AFL.

Who knows one day there may be a team representing NT and a team representing Canberra. How that looks ultimately is not knowable. That doesn't mean you shouldn't contemplate it.

Then why emphasise indigenous inclusion at all?

The best way to be inclusive is to not make a big deal about it. Don't be weird about it, just let anybody that's interested participate.

 

[Bjo187]

The V'landys types in Sydney don't care about Perth or a national audience, only about maintaining their influence over the sport. Perth are only part of the discussions because the old boys can use them as a means to get the Bears back into the competition. It appeases to the nostalgia of the over 50s from Sydney demographic that they represent.

If the NRL were serious about expansion teams 17 to 20 would have been Perth, Adelaide, and a second Brisbane and NZ side each. Instead they're going with the Dolphins and Bears to appeal to the boomers, and PNG because it's easy and non-threatening.

The way they're intentionally mismanaging expansion is one of the main reasons why I have next to no interest in the NRL anymore. Well, that and the open Sydney first agenda and Peter's desecration of the rules.

The NRL isn't really worth your time unless you live in the trashy parts of Sydney or Brisbane.

My mate that lives up there his son goes to the same school as Peter's kids, coz he sees him picking them up. It's in the North Sydney type area so he would be getting asked the question of when the bears are coming back in all the time. So it's kinda personal for him to bring them back.

I do agree with you that if Perth crowds drop through the floor, it will be the telegraph agenda to 'bring the boys home'. The whole sport is Sydney centric though and all the media are in bed with Peter.

I do wonder if Cook has figured out yet that after each meeting Vlandy's runs to his media mates to run a story about the proposed deal, inflating the numbers, surely that doesn't go down well. But I dunno if Cook is smart enough to realise he's being played like a fool.

 

[Badger17]

My mate that lives up there his son goes to the same school as Peter's kids, coz he sees him picking them up. It's in the North Sydney type area so he would be getting asked the question of when the bears are coming back in all the time. So it's kinda personal for him to bring them back.

Exactly my point.

His first concern isn't what's best for RL, the NRL, or Perth in this case, it's keeping the usual suspects in Sydney on side.

I do agree with you that if Perth crowds drop through the floor, it will be the telegraph agenda to 'bring the boys home'. The whole sport is Sydney centric though and all the media are in bed with Peter.

They won't even have to drop through the floor. There'll be calls for more games to be played at North Sydney Oval, and potentially the Central Coast, on the day the first is played, and the rumours and opinion pieces will get more and more numerous if the team is struggling.

All the marketing and promotional material will focus on the Bears and history over Perth as well.

I do wonder if Cook has figured out yet that after each meeting Vlandy's runs to his media mates to run a story about the proposed deal, inflating the numbers, surely that doesn't go down well. But I dunno if Cook is smart enough to realise he's being played like a fool.

He should have figured out he was being played as soon as taking on the Bears was made a prerequisite to getting a team.

 

[Canberra Pear]

You misunderstand me.

In my view a team for the NT would be a team for all of the NT. Its all about inclusion.

Both regions are geographically, politically and socially significant for Australia.

As the name of the competition is the Australian Football League and the sport is Australian Rules Football it stands to reason that in the interests of inclusion it is logical to at least aim to have both regions represented in the AFL.

There's a very real chance that the AFL doesn't expand past 20 teams. Or at least not for a very long time.

So what would you consider as the NT being "represented" if they don't get a full-time team?

 

[Coolangatta]

There's a very real chance that the AFL doesn't expand past 20 teams. Or at least not for a very long time.

So what would you consider as the NT being "represented" if they don't get a full-time team?

And this is why I’m afraid of the NT being team 20. Many see them as the last piece of the puzzle, too bad about Canberra.

I’d be okay with the AFL not wanting to keep expanding but I want the limit to be 22 teams if they shut up shop.

ACT as team 20.

Then for full national representation, make a team playing 7 games in Darwin and 4 in Cairns work. Who knows, planes and trains might be faster in 30+ years.

We just don’t know what’s going to happen if AI goes gangbusters in 5-10 years but that’s another topic altogether.

Then cap it off with a team in the South West.

We need Canberra and WA3 eventually IMO so 20 as a max would suck IMO.

Would love to see NT/NQ involved but it’s way less feasible than Canberra and WA3.

 

[Canberra Pear]

And this is why I’m afraid of the NT being team 20. Many see them as the last piece of the puzzle, too bad about Canberra.

I think I'm less concerned of the NT becoming the 20th team as I am WA3.

The only way I can see the NT happening is some PNG-like level deal happening with the federal government.

The NT could get team 20, but so much would have to align that I don't see it as a big of a challenger (at least at this stage).

Then cap it off with a team in the South West.

We need Canberra and WA3 eventually IMO so 20 as a max would suck IMO.

Would love to see NT/NQ involved but it’s way less feasible than Canberra and WA3.

I might be selfish, but I honestly don't think a third WA team is a necessity. It's a nice-to-have option if the AFL needs a team to even things out, but I don't thing it should be the impetus for expansion.

I don't think the Southwest is feasible. It currently has less than 400k. And that includes Peel, which is in Freo territory, and much of it is closer to Optus than Bunbury. It's also spread over a pretty decentralised area.

A third Perth team, likely the northern suburbs, is the only WA team I see as feasible. But what does it add? I would much rather see Optus expanded to 70k and seeing West Coast and Freo becoming true superpowers. A bit like the Man City/United of the AFL.

WA3 is handy if the AFL has another target in the future and they want to expand by two.

 

[Coolangatta]

I think I'm less concerned of the NT becoming the 20th team as I am WA3.

The only way I can see the NT happening is some PNG-like level deal happening with the federal government.

The NT could get team 20, but so much would have to align that I don't see it as a big of a challenger (at least at this stage).



I might be selfish, but I honestly don't think a third WA team is a necessity. It's a nice-to-have option if the AFL needs a team to even things out, but I don't thing it should be the impetus for expansion.

I don't think the Southwest is feasible. It currently has less than 400k. And that includes Peel, which is in Freo territory, and much of it is closer to Optus than Bunbury. It's also spread over a pretty decentralised area.

A third Perth team, likely the northern suburbs, is the only WA team I see as feasible. But what does it add? I would much rather see Optus expanded to 70k and seeing West Coast and Freo becoming true superpowers. A bit like the Man City/United of the AFL.

WA3 is handy if the AFL has another target in the future and they want to expand by two.

That’s fair. Ultimately the goal of expansion is to increase TV ratings, which new markets will do more effectively than markets already represented.

I would be targeting Auckland and Newcastle next after Canberra but that’s just me, a gun ho expansion man.

That said, I wouldn’t consider more expansion until they get Gold Coast and GWS right. Tasmania needs to succeed, too, which it should, but it’s not a certainty.

20 clubs that are financially successful are what is needed. The AFL won’t have to rush future expansion because no one will be demanding a team like Tasmania will be.

 

[Badger17]

I think I'm less concerned of the NT becoming the 20th team as I am WA3.

The only way I can see the NT happening is some PNG-like level deal happening with the federal government.

The NT could get team 20, but so much would have to align that I don't see it as a big of a challenger (at least at this stage).

I honestly don't see how an NT team would be financially viable outside the government stepping in to fund it. I can't see what possible political justification there could be for that kind of investment into a professional football team either.

 

[Coolangatta]

I honestly don't see how an NT team would be financially viable outside the government stepping in to fund it. I can't see what possible political justification there could be for that kind of investment into a professional football team either.

And as I said if it did get up, that’s going to be a huge blow to Canberra. All the rhetoric will be about how we finally have a truly national competition so no one will be calling for a 21st team, especially not the polite Canberraians.

But if Canberra gets up as team 20, there’ll still be people pushing for an NT side to happen eventually.

I’d love to see NT, ACT and NQ if they ever become a state as part of the comp but you’ve got to look at what’s feasible not romantic.

 

[Whats a Battle]

My mate that lives up there his son goes to the same school as Peter's kids, coz he sees him picking them up. It's in the North Sydney type area so he would be getting asked the question of when the bears are coming back in all the time. So it's kinda personal for him to bring them back.

I do agree with you that if Perth crowds drop through the floor, it will be the telegraph agenda to 'bring the boys home'. The whole sport is Sydney centric though and all the media are in bed with Peter.

I do wonder if Cook has figured out yet that after each meeting Vlandy's runs to his media mates to run a story about the proposed deal, inflating the numbers, surely that doesn't go down well. But I dunno if Cook is smart enough to realise he's being played like a fool.

Ironic considering the Terrorgraph did a lot back in the day to ensure the Bears got kicked out of the competition in the first place.

 

[Badger17]

And as I said if it did get up, that’s going to be a huge blow to Canberra. All the rhetoric will be about how we finally have a truly national competition so no one will be calling for a 21st team, especially not the polite Canberraians.

But if Canberra gets up as team 20, there’ll still be people pushing for an NT side to happen eventually.

I’d love to see NT, ACT and NQ if they ever become a state as part of the comp but you’ve got to look at what’s feasible not romantic.

The AFL will continue to expand for as long as there's demand and money to be made.

They might not expand again straight away, but anybody that thinks they'll stop at 20 for any longer than they have to is dreaming.

 

[Fire]

Ironic considering the Terrorgraph did a lot back in the day to ensure the Bears got kicked out of the competition in the first place.

its almost like they had a conflict of interest or something.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

There is increased pressure on Barr to again fund our Canberra United female soccer team in the Aleague. The ACT Government who normally provides $250k annually to Canberra United, gave an additional $200k reluctantly due to pressure from a grassroots local campaign in an election year.

Much of the Government analysis of funding for professional sports teams and events focuses on the economic benefits of tourism derived from hosting games and the profile gained by having teams in national leagues

It's time the ACT Government provided certainty to Canberra United A-League Women | Region Canberra

One year after it was bailed out following an upswell of support, uncertainty over the future of the Canberra United…

the-riotact.com

 

[Canberra Pear]

There is increased pressure on Barr to again fund our Canberra United female soccer team in the Aleague. The ACT Government who normally provides $250k annually to Canberra United, gave an additional $200k reluctantly due to pressure from a grassroots local campaign in an election year.

Much of the Government analysis of funding for professional sports teams and events focuses on the economic benefits of tourism derived from hosting games and the profile gained by having teams in national leagues

It's time the ACT Government provided certainty to Canberra United A-League Women | Region Canberra

One year after it was bailed out following an upswell of support, uncertainty over the future of the Canberra United…

the-riotact.com

I don't think there's much correlation between funding a women's soccer team and funding an AFL club.

For one thing, we're already funding an AFL club, so the money is clearly there for that.

And secondly, as the article says, "much of the Government analysis of funding for professional sports teams and events focuses on the economic benefits of tourism derived from hosting games and the profile gained by having teams in national leagues". It's about return on investment, and there isn't much return on a standalone women's soccer team.

 

[Badger17]

I reckon it'd be easier for a few parties behind the scenes if United folded.

They're an expensive fly in the ointment for anyone interested in owning the men's team. If they were to fold the new owners would save themselves millions of dollars and have free rein to come in and do what they like without having to compromise to keep United and it's fans happy, and they can invest in their own women's team when they're ready.

Sad for United, win for the Capital Region Football Collective, APL, and the eventual owners of the men's team.

 

[4Seasons]

I can't imagine that Wollongong or the GC would have any more luck finding an investor willing to pay a $25mil license fee than Canberra's having. I guess not having to screw around trying to integrate an unviable women's team would be a bonus.

The APL don't need to go to the trouble of founding the club themselves either. All they need to do is reduce the ridiculous license fee.

Wollongong lol.
This is the town that supports the loser coward Sam Goodman.
Wollongong is a joke bogan town, not fit for any sport.