Captaincy

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dewah07 said:
hugh goddard is he ever gets to above average at his position. speaks so damn well do his age/status in the game.

steele is a hard no, off field no
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AS the red head from up north would say Please Explain
 

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Impatient Saint said:
It says where our list is at really that we dont have anyone other than a back pocket as captain. Look at all the top 8 sides most of their captains are midfielders or key position players that can have an affect on games.
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2016 premiership captain was a defender, replacing the other injured captain who was a defender.

Sydney premiers in 2012 co captain was a defender.

Geelong premiership captain in 2011 a tagger.

Collingwood premiership captain in 2010 a defender.

Geelong premiership captain in 2009 and 2007 a defender.

So you take Hawks out of it and the captain of the premiers for the last 10 years have been defenders/defensive players.
 
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TheBalls said:
2016 premiership captain was a defender, replacing the other injured captain who was a defender. (Played HBF and rotated through the mid)

Sydney premiers in 2012 co captain was a defender. (co-captain, McVeigh Def/Mid, Goodes Fwd/Mid)

Geelong premiership captain in 2011 a tagger.(Played in the middle full time, able to direct the most players irespective of the role he played)

Collingwood premiership captain in 2010 a defender.(Floating defender, who travelled the entire backline and up to the wings to read the play, not a shut down back pocket)

Geelong premiership captain in 2009 and 2007 a defender.(Same as Maxwell)

So you take Hawks out of it and the captain of the premiers for the last 10 years have been defenders/defensive players.
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EFA

FWIW I disagree with the sentiment that we don't have enough talent but I doubt I'll ever truly be swayed that picking a lock down back pocket was the right choice for captain. As many have said, our captain was unable to have an impact at the end of the Port game, whether it's due to position or actual leadership I won't claim to know but either way is still potentially a problem, especially in finals where Gray's win finals like that.
 
Crusty Undies said:
EFA

FWIW I disagree with the sentiment that we don't have enough talent but I doubt I'll ever truly be swayed that picking a lock down back pocket was the right choice for captain. As many have said, our captain was unable to have an impact at the end of the Port game, whether it's due to position or actual leadership I won't claim to know but either way is still potentially a problem, especially in finals where Gray's win finals like that.
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Thanks for your EFA. Really, really appreciate it.

Regardless the insinuation that a team captain needs to be a mid or key position player for that team to be competitive is wrong.
 
TheBalls said:
2016 premiership captain was a defender, replacing the other injured captain who was a defender.

Sydney premiers in 2012 co captain was a defender.

Geelong premiership captain in 2011 a tagger.

Collingwood premiership captain in 2010 a defender.

Geelong premiership captain in 2009 and 2007 a defender.

So you take Hawks out of it and the captain of the premiers for the last 10 years have been defenders/defensive players.
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You calling Hodge just a defender. As I said the others were key talls or attacking players that can influence the game. Geary is a dour stopper only, has never influenced the result of one game, although consistently does a good job!
 
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Impatient Saint said:
You calling Hodge just a defender. As I said the others were key talls or attacking players that can influence the game. Geary is a dour stopper only, has never influenced the result of one game, although consistently does a good job!
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I agree. Geary is the dour defender type and a valuable member of the team, however quite often his disposals count is on the low side which for a captain is not a preferred option. In my mind it's not so much that Geary is a defender, it's more that he doesn't impact the play enough. I think we need a captain who gets a bit more of the football.
 
TheBalls said:
Thanks for your EFA. Really, really appreciate it.

Regardless the insinuation that a team captain needs to be a mid or key position player for that team to be competitive is wrong.
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No problem, was just letting you know you incorrectly categorised a number of players and equated a lot of players to a back pocket because they play in the same third of the ground which is a flaw in your logic.

I'm also not insinuating that a captain needs to be a KPP or a mid to be competitive. A team can be competitive with literally any player as skipper as evidenced by us. What I'm saying is that a lock down back pocket is not the optimal position for a captain to play, in fact it is just about the least optimal only ahead of permanent benchwarmer.

My point is that all the captains you mentioned earlier had significantly greater effects on the general play than Geary and were relevant at many more stoppages, contests and crucial situations than Geary is able to be due to his role.
 
Longterm the captain needs to be elite,the face of the club & marketable. Geary will captain no more than 3 seasons then the club will appoint a longterm & more appropriate captain imo.
 

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The captain needs to toss the coin, but apart from that it's a team game, though the captain should be playing at good consistent standard and lead by example. In my younger playing days, the guys who were really good captains were those who you watched and thought jeez how good was that, and also it made you try and play a bit better- that's the sort of inspiration a captain should bring.
 
Impatient Saint said:
You calling Hodge just a defender. As I said the others were key talls or attacking players that can influence the game. Geary is a dour stopper only, has never influenced the result of one game, although consistently does a good job!
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No I excluded Hodge from the list as he is a midfielder (thought that was clear).

Geary has influenced the result of many games, he maybe isn't taking huge pack marks and kicking game winning goals, but his defensive work on a weekly basis impacts the opposition's ability to score goals. Unfortunately it's impossible to track stats around the impact that individual defensive plays has directly on the opposition score board so it's not really noted in the grand scheme of things.

I do understand your sentiment though and my reply was purely around what I took to be a negative comment in "shows where our list is at".

Which is, a young list of emerging talent with nobody ready to take on the captaincy. If this is what you were inferring too then I apologise.

Out of curiosity who would you have as captain now if it was up to you?

I was in the camp that I thought Weller, so based on this season I was way off.

With hindsight I think Saints made the right choice and Geary is having a good year and he should stay captain until one of our young 'elite' leaders is ready.
 
TheBalls said:
No I excluded Hodge from the list as he is a midfielder (thought that was clear).

Geary has influenced the result of many games, he maybe isn't taking huge pack marks and kicking game winning goals, but his defensive work on a weekly basis impacts the opposition's ability to score goals. Unfortunately it's impossible to track stats around the impact that individual defensive plays has directly on the opposition score board so it's not really noted in the grand scheme of things.

I do understand your sentiment though and my reply was purely around what I took to be a negative comment in "shows where our list is at".

Which is, a young list of emerging talent with nobody ready to take on the captaincy. If this is what you were inferring too then I apologise.

Out of curiosity who would you have as captain now if it was up to you?

I was in the camp that I thought Weller, so based on this season I was way off.

With hindsight I think Saints made the right choice and Geary is having a good year and he should stay captain until one of our young 'elite' leaders is ready.
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Its bound to be a Jack. Captain Jack.

Newnes has already been talked about.
Sinclair might be looking a good choice in a couple of years.
 
John Bonney said:
Leadership non-existent again.
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It's a very valid point, I like Geary, but we really needed a Riewoldt or Montagna out there barking orders in the first quarter. We completely lost our heads.

Playing wise I think they are struggling, but leadership/on field coaching wise they are gold.

I made a joke to a few others at the game that Carlisle plays like a captain, one of the smartest players I've seen on the field it's a shame that he's not the smartest off it.
 
I'm not of a mindset that considers that the Captain needs to be a particularly outstanding player.
BUT:
He needs to be good enough to ensure that he is an automatic inclusion each week.
For 2017 this has not been a problem, and he's probably only keeping Rice out of the team right now.
Over the longer term it could become an issue.
It might be a good time to announce a rotating captain policy.
Would allow Geary to stand aside without being actively "demoted "
 
A lot of ifs here but stay with me .
If we get Kelly this season .
He has a great year next year and wins the Brownlow, would he be rewarded as the net captain ? I don't really know if he is captain material but the club would know if he gets on with the players and if he is a good leader .
My point being , if that all happened would you be happy with it even though it means players who were seen as potential captains will then miss out . Any views ?
 
Speck said:
It's a very valid point, I like Geary, but we really needed a Riewoldt or Montagna out there barking orders in the first quarter. We completely lost our heads.

Playing wise I think they are struggling, but leadership/on field coaching wise they are gold.

I made a joke to a few others at the game that Carlisle plays like a captain, one of the smartest players I've seen on the field it's a shame that he's not the smartest off it.
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But we have a decent leadership group who should be doing that sort of stuff out on the ground. It's not purely up to the captain as Gears has enough on his plate being a defender . This is why we have a leadership group .
Maybe too many of the group aren't vocal enough and rely just on being good examples at training rather than leaders on the ground . Steven is quiet , Newnes too, Weller is out of form so I don't know how much he says , probably more worried about his own game . Bruce runs his guts out but I don't think he's very vocal . Who else is there ?

For too many years we have relied on Joey and Roo to set up the forwards and the defenders etc. Roo and Joey wouldn't have allowed that result against Port imo.
 
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