Carlton Are Better Than Us

[Peter SasseGum]

No it's because they have older players ahead of them, who have already shown their worth at AFL level.

ok, well many people here say the older players are duds, and shouldn't be in the side.

So if these kids can't step up and replace these so called "duds", then what options are there?

 

[beaver fever]

ok, well many people here say the older players are duds, and shouldn't be in the side.

So if these kids can't step up and replace these so called "duds", then what options are there?

You keep on bringing in new players every year and continue to develop them. Players that don't make it are moved on and those that do play in our side.

 

[Bojangles17]

What is your point?

what's yours I dont see any highlights on that lot aside from Kruezer, we're playing plenty of players of same age in white edwards riewoldt, mcguane and co, how about being a little more objective rather than the ol tunnel vision

 

[beaver fever]

what's yours I dont see any highlights on that lot aside from Kruezer, we're playing plenty of players of same age in white edwards riewoldt, mcguane and co, how about being a little more objective rather than the ol tunnel vision

I thought it was pretty obvious. We aren't developing enough young players because the old guys are holding them back.

 

[Big Red is back]

Just because they rolled over the power split peas does not equate to them being a better side than us

Knee jerk posting

FYI Port finished 2nd last year and the Pies 3rd so we are going ok

 

[emperor]

FYI Port finished 2nd last year and the Pies 3rd so we are going ok

yeah and we thrashed the pies late last year and they went within a kick of making the GF...how good are we?

 

[Bojangles17]

FYI Port finished 2nd last year and the Pies 3rd so we are going ok

yeah, like 2007 form counts in 2008, gimmee a break, has zip relevance

 

[T4P]

Carlton have played mainly (about 7-9/11 games) against bottom 8 teams
We have played mainly top 8 teams including the top three who we have put up a decent fight against drawing against one and nearly beating the top of the ladder team.

Carlton are only ahead of us because they have a soft draw.
A soft draw for a soft team

 

[cormick]

FYI Port finished 2nd last year and the Pies 3rd so we are going ok

And we came last...still beat ya's...how bad must you be

 

[T4P]

And we came last...still beat ya's...how bad must you be

touche

 

[_RT_]

Point is even though Carlton have played all those kids, it doesn't mean that they'll all make it and become quality players

Only Kruezer looks likely, as does Cotchin

Of course it doesn't mean they will make it, but by playing them often in their first 1-2 years Carlton can get a fair idea as to whether they will make it and the ones they believe will go on and be good players for their club will be the ones that keep on getting games.

We on the other hand are left with question marks about most of the kids we have picked up since Wallace came to the club.

Tell me out of these kids who amongst them stands out as certain 10 year players:

Meyer
Polo
McGuane
JON
Hughes
Casserly
White
Graham
Riewoldt
Edwards
Connors
Collins

Jack would be the only one who comes close at the moment, all the others would still be sitting in the "maybe, could be" list.

 

[Bojangles17]

Of course it doesn't mean they will make it, but by playing them often in their first 1-2 years Carlton can get a fair idea as to whether they will make it and the ones they believe will go on and be good players for their club will be the ones that keep on getting games.

We on the other hand are left with question marks about most of the kids we have picked up since Wallace came to the club.

Tell me out of these kids who amongst them stands out as certain 10 year players:

Meyer
Polo
McGuane
JON
Hughes
Casserly
White
Graham
Riewoldt
Edwards
Connors
Collins

Jack would be the only one who comes close at the moment, all the others would still be sitting in the "maybe, could be" list.

NO LESS than the list of Carlton duds you posted earlier, it's about time you came clean to everyone on the Tiger facade and declare to everybody your true colours. I dont know any Realistic Tiger that bats for the Blues, perhaps Paper Tiger would be more apt

 

[JSFish]

Of course it doesn't mean they will make it, but by playing them often in their first 1-2 years Carlton can get a fair idea as to whether they will make it and the ones they believe will go on and be good players for their club will be the ones that keep on getting games.

We on the other hand are left with question marks about most of the kids we have picked up since Wallace came to the club.

Tell me out of these kids who amongst them stands out as certain 10 year players:

Meyer
Polo
McGuane
JON
Hughes
Casserly
White
Graham
Riewoldt
Edwards
Connors
Collins

Jack would be the only one who comes close at the moment, all the others would still be sitting in the "maybe, could be" list.

It was a fair post you made RT, but the two bolded bits contradict each other a little.

 

[TigerGlory]

NO LESS than the list of Carlton duds you posted earlier, it's about time you came clean to everyone on the Tiger facade and declare to everybody your true colours. I dont know any Realistic Tiger that bats for the Blues, perhaps Paper Tiger would be more apt

RT's making a point that is quite valid actually.

Hes be no means "batting" for Carlton, hes simply telling us his opinion, and its an opinion i partly agree with.

The Blues are playing kids and developing them, we are persisting with the same old no-hopers.

Wallace should have thought about this 4 years ago, if he had persisted with playing kids and pumping games into them, we could very well be in a similiar position as Hawthorn now. Then his job would be fine.

We need an entire coaching clean-out, get rid of the poison, Wallace, Miller they all need to be given the chop and just get some new blood in there. Somebody who will build this young list. In my opinion, as many former Tigers as possible.

We could start with Sheeds, not in a coaching role, but in some sort of administration type role.

 

[_RT_]

NO LESS than the list of Carlton duds you posted earlier, it's about time you came clean to everyone on the Tiger facade and declare to everybody your true colours. I dont know any Realistic Tiger that bats for the Blues, perhaps Paper Tiger would be more apt

Not batting for the Blues at all, just pointing out the differences between how we are 'developing' our players and how a side like Carlton IS developing their players. As I have said earlier in the thread, Carlton dumped their deadwood at the end of last year and focused on getting the kids out on the park at AFL level. If a Carlton youngster is replaced it is with another youngster even though they have some experienced players still on their list i.e. Ackland, Saddington, Houlihan(injured at present I believe). On the other hand we give a kid a few games and then if their form drops off we replace them with Hyde & Tivendale, even though it seems everyone in the football world apart from our selection panel knows they aren't up to it.

It was a fair post you made RT, but the two bolded bits contradict each other a little.

Didn't mean it to come across that way. Just highlighting the point I made about how there are a number of players on our list that still have a few ???? next to their names even though they have been on the list for near on 3.5 years in some cases.

 

[cormick]

Tell me out of these kids who amongst them stands out as certain 10 year players:

Meyer
Polo
McGuane
JON
Hughes
Casserly
White
Graham
Riewoldt
Edwards
Connors
Collins

Jack would be the only one who comes close at the moment, all the others would still be sitting in the "maybe, could be" list.

You could pick out the least tried 10 on their lists, and say where are all of them?
How about our "tried" kids...Tambling, Lids, Cotchin, Thursty etc...theyre all looking like becoming good future players, and theyre all still kids.
Take out Murphy Gibbs n Kreuzer, n whove Carlton got?
Hampson?...been only a semi regular this season...similar to Riewoldt or McGuane.
...Anyone else?

How about Kel Moore...hes still only a kid and getting a very regular game...every game in fact (?)...
Raines is a fair chance of becoming a good player too.

You'd expect #1 picks to come good, n Carlton have loaded up on them, but other than that, none of their kids are certainties to make it, either.

 

[beaver fever]

cormick the point is they are going through the list to find the players that will make it. It's called development. We on the other hand play hyde ahead of polo. WTF.

 

[cormick]

cormick the point is they are going through the list to find the players that will make it. It's called development. We on the other hand play hyde ahead of polo. WTF.

Yeah i understood that...but the point im saying is that our kids are playing- Foley, Thursty, Moore, (Raines), Cotch, Deledio, Tambling etc...but, because they are regulars, they aint seen as kids.

FFS, Wiggins and Setanta get games with Carlton...Petiffer n Hyde etc

 

[beaver fever]

Yeah i understood that...but the point im saying is that our kids are playing- Foley, Thursty, Moore, (Raines), Cotch, Deledio, Tambling etc...but, because they are regulars, they aint seen as kids.

FFS, Wiggins and Setanta get games with Carlton...Petiffer n Hyde etc

Sure there are good points for both arguements. Me personally 1 debutant vs 6 has to be changed.

 

[cormick]

Sure there are good points for both arguements. Me personally 1 debutant vs 6 has to be changed.

True that.
But its a bit of a misleading statistic...they may not have played any of those débutante's last season, but they may well have been on the list, while we were playing the more débutante's...now theyre giving games to Kreuzer, Armfield etc...last few years weve blooded JON, Connors etc, still just the same age but already having a game.

Looking forward to Collins, Rance, Cass and Collard hopefully!

 

[_RT_]

You could pick out the least tried 10 on their lists, and say where are all of them?
How about our "tried" kids...Tambling, Lids, Cotchin, Thursty etc...theyre all looking like becoming good future players, and theyre all still kids.
Take out Murphy Gibbs n Kreuzer, n whove Carlton got?
Hampson?...been only a semi regular this season...similar to Riewoldt or McGuane.
...Anyone else?

How about Kel Moore...hes still only a kid and getting a very regular game...every game in fact (?)...
Raines is a fair chance of becoming a good player too.

You'd expect #1 picks to come good, n Carlton have loaded up on them, but other than that, none of their kids are certainties to make it, either.

Beaver summed it up perfectly, they are at least giving their kids an opportunity to show something at AFL level and then make decisions on whether they can help improve Carlton as a club in the long run. On the other hand, we seem to still be deciding whether Pettifer, Tivendale, Hyde and a few other older players are going to make it or not. As I said earlier, if we keep doing that then by time we decide that it is time to get players like Connors, Polo, Rance, JON, Hughes the same type of players at Carlton will have played 2-3 years of AFL together and will have a lot more experience than our players will.

I agreed that none of Carltons players are certainties to make it, but the way they are going about it at the moment they will be able to make calls about their possible AFL players based on AFL games against AFL opposition, we are going to be making decisions about possible AFL players based on VFL games played against VFL opposition.

 

[cormick]

Beaver summed it up perfectly, they are at least giving their kids an opportunity to show something at AFL level and then make decisions on whether they can help improve Carlton as a club in the long run. On the other hand, we seem to still be deciding whether Pettifer, Tivendale, Hyde and a few other older players are going to make it or not. As I said earlier, if we keep doing that then by time we decide that it is time to get players like Connors, Polo, Rance, JON, Hughes the same type of players at Carlton will have played 2-3 years of AFL together and will have a lot more experience than our players will.

I agreed that none of Carltons players are certainties to make it, but the way they are going about it at the moment they will be able to make calls about their possible AFL players based on AFL games against AFL opposition, we are going to be making decisions about possible AFL players based on VFL games played against VFL opposition.

Yeah thats true, but just because theyre playing the kids this year, doesnt make them better than us.

 

[_RT_]

Yeah thats true, but just because theyre playing the kids this year, doesnt make them better than us.

IMO, what makes them better is they are at least prepared to give their players a go, whether they were drafted 1, 2 or 3 years ago they are still getting a shot.

Here is probably the most damning thing about the whole arguement:
Number of Richmond players yet to debut: 6 of which 1 is a rookie listed player.
Number of Carlton players yet to debut: 6 of which 4 are rookie listed players.

 

[tigerdan]

You don't just play kids for playing kids' sake. If we must do it, do it with 4 games left in the year.

Screw these comparisons with Carlton. They have a different list structure. For example, pretty much had to play a junior ruckman. We don't need to play Putt (for example) when we have Simmonds and Pattison and have even tried Polak there.

Too many people take such a simplistic view of the game and where we are at.

 

[_RT_]

You don't just play kids for playing kids' sake. If we must do it, do it with 4 games left in the year.

Screw these comparisons with Carlton. They have a different list structure. For example, pretty much had to play a junior ruckman. We don't need to play Putt (for example) when we have Simmonds and Pattison and have even tried Polak there.

Too many people take such a simplistic view of the game and where we are at.

Carlton have Ackland and Cloke so they don't need to play junior ruckmen at all.

When you compare the 2 clubs they have a number of players who are considered past it on their list still because of contracts i.e. Ackland, Saddington & Houlihan. We have our players that are considered past it/not up to it on our list as well i.e. Tivendale, Hyde & Pettifer. The difference between the 2 is we keep bringing ours back when we drop a kid, Carlton don't.