List Mgmt. 2023 List Management

[carlton_99]

Last I heard all parties were on the same page.
Wants to stay at the club, the club wants to keep him.
Both club and players management keen on a 2 year deal. With a view to signing a longer term deal with us next time round.

Everyone seems pretty comfortable with what’s been discussed. Nobody appears to be to worries at all really. It makes sense that it won’t get done until after the bye.
Given it’s a shorter deal, it’s easier to work out fair remuneration, as one’s not trying to predict to far into the future.
This gives Tom 10-12 games to put together a decent form line.

Thanks for the info!

 

[F_therest]

Last I heard all parties were on the same page.
Wants to stay at the club, the club wants to keep him.
Both club and players management keen on a 2 year deal. With a view to signing a longer term deal with us next time round.

Everyone seems pretty comfortable with what’s been discussed. Nobody appears to be to worries at all really. It makes sense that it won’t get done until after the bye.
Given it’s a shorter deal, it’s easier to work out fair remuneration, as one’s not trying to predict to far into the future.
This gives Tom 10-12 games to put together a decent form line.

Sounds good. TDK doesn't seem like the kind of guy to chase the money, although there is a tipping point for everyone.

Seriously though, feel like the money being banded around in some sections of the media are WAAAAAY overkill.

$800k+ for TDK right now? No chance. Shows some promising attributes and signs, but he's not that effective yet in the ruck contests or up forward. Still more glimpses of potential than dominating a game. When fully fit, Pitto could easily regain the no.1 ruck mantle this season.

 

[myblueroan]

Silvagni’s body language didn’t look to crash hot after the game last week.
Maybe just dirty on being subbed.
Maybe the old man, who appears to be pretty bitter with the club has been in his ear.
Maybe he’s feeling some selection pressure.
Maybe a combination of all these things.
He’s a watch this space for mine atm …

Maybe he was frustrated with his own game.
He might be hard on himself when he misses a goal. Who knows!
I hope Jack knows how much supporters value him as a heart and soul Carlton player. I hope the club values him like we do. I hope SOS doesn't talk the club down all the time like a bitter ex who doesn't think of the children.

 

[Magruder]

Sounds good. TDK doesn't seem like the kind of guy to chase the money, although there is a tipping point for everyone.

Seriously though, feel like the money being banded around in some sections of the media are WAAAAAY overkill.

$800k+ for TDK right now? No chance. Shows some promising attributes and signs, but he's not that effective yet in the ruck contests or up forward. Still more glimpses of potential than dominating a game. When fully fit, Pitto could easily regain the no.1 ruck mantle this season.

The only way TDK is getting an $800k contract is if a club doesn’t have to give up Too much capital in picks to get him.

Not happening.And if a club is committed to him to that extent, we should make out very well, particularly if we can replace him with a solid ready to play option - Sean Darcy who may get squeezed out for example

The scenario outlined earlier where a two year deal is inked around the bye seems the most likely. It’s the contract after that which will be the big one for Tom.

 

[The Great Ian]

Silvagni’s body language didn’t look to crash hot after the game last week.
Maybe just dirty on being subbed.
Maybe the old man, who appears to be pretty bitter with the club has been in his ear.
Maybe he’s feeling some selection pressure.
Maybe a combination of all these things.
He’s a watch this space for mine atm …

Can't see why Jack can't transition in the 3rd tall intercepting defender role. Has a smart footy brain, the pedigree and skills to do it well.

McGovern and Marchbank always injured. Let them go and stick with Jack and Kemp as 3rd tall Def's.

On CPH2065 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[branedotorg]

Can't see why Jack can't transition in the 3rd tall intercepting defender role. Has a smart footy brain, the pedigree and skills to do it well.

McGovern and Marchbank always injured. Let them go and stick with Jack and Kemp as 3rd tall Def's.

On CPH2065 using BigFooty.com mobile app

He's pretty slow, Gary Rohan as an example would burn him on every lead.

He's smart so if it was as a loose tall he'd impact well but the minute he had to man up you'd see it.

As a forward he can mitigate that to an extent by repeat efforts and leading patterns.

He's also not a great mark - it's his perennial problem, he's an almost player (10cms taller or a bit faster he'd be a superstar) who overcomes deficiency by effort and smarts.

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

I think atm it all depends on how much TDK develops this season with what we put forward to him, another solid year of improvement would probably have the club offer him a fair and reasonable 2 year contract in the 500K vicinity…
It locks him in for probably the 2 most important years as far as his age/development goes, in which his future price and length of contract will be determined from a clearer platform of what he can actually produce altogether…

Not bad at all…
You heard it here first folks…

 

[Coops93]

No idea what the go with SOS is atm in terms of wanting to stay or leave.

But Jack's wage is roughly $400k, a first round draft pick who plays all 22 games wage is around $145k. So that is $255k to add to an another players contact if we went down that path.

Doubt we're getting a first round pick for him, though, or a someone that will play all 22 games. So the output will be quite different.

 

[Arr0w]

Doubt we're getting a first round pick for him, though, or a someone that will play all 22 games. So the output will be quite different.

Don't think the emphasis, was on playing 22 games

 

[Coops93]

Don't think the emphasis, was on playing 22 games

Think it was as it was referring to the $ value of a 1st rd pick playing 22 games.

 

[Arr0w]

Think it was as it was referring to the $ value of a 1st rd pick playing 22 games.

I believe, it was based on a maximum spend, if, any 1st round pick played 22 games.

Not, that we would get a 1st rounder for Jsos

 

[RPCB]

I believe, it was based on a maximum spend, if, any 1st round pick played 22 games.

Not, that we would get a 1st rounder for Jsos

This!

Everyone in Australia knows that JSOS won’t command a 1st round pick.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Think it was as it was referring to the $ value of a 1st rd pick playing 22 games.

Slight misread, Coops.

It was in response to:

How does letting Jack go help us retain TDK?

Jack won’t be on significant wages. Let him go, we’ll just have to replace him with someone on similar wages.

The first round pick playing 22 games is just a top end benchmark for what his list spot would be replaced by.

$400k of JSOS salary out, $145k (max, probably less) of draftee salary in. Frees up $255k or more to throw at TDK if necessary.

I reckon we'd probably get a late second rounder for him, maybe early third given if it comes to it we're probably not in a great bargaining position. Perhaps similar sort of situation to Acres. The Silvagni name might improve the pick a smidge.

He's definitely AFL grade, just maybe not being perfectly utilised or showcased in our forward line. Reckon there'd be enough interest from a handful of clubs - North in rebuild mode, Hawthorn in tanking mode, St Kilda with the Ross + SOS factor, Richmond with their penchant for smart, hard-working footballers, to name a few. Maybe not all of them, but I think there are enough local clubs who would see value.

Reckon it'd be entirely up to Jack though. He'll get a modest contract offer given his relative position on the list. If he's keen to be part of a Carlton premiership for the sake of his own legacy, and his family's, then he'll take it and work through being an 18-26 kinda player on the list. Or he takes umbrage at being relegated to "depth" as far as selection and salary goes, and he takes his ball and goes to St Kilda.

 

[Coops93]

I believe, it was based on a maximum spend, if, any 1st round pick played 22 games.

Not, that we would get a 1st rounder for Jsos

Maximum spend vs potential output was the equation so it did matter.

Anyway I don't really care enough about it to argue, my main point was SOS isn't getting a first rounder so the whole point was moot really.

 

[JustaBattler]

Can't see why Jack can't transition in the 3rd tall intercepting defender role. Has a smart footy brain, the pedigree and skills to do it well.

McGovern and Marchbank always injured. Let them go and stick with Jack and Kemp as 3rd tall Def's.

On CPH2065 using BigFooty.com mobile app

Jack competes for marks and is pretty much guaranteed to drop most contested marks he gets hands to.

 

[Blue train 28]

Is B mckay in the same boat as TDK that if Mckay goes free agency at 800k 4 year deal at his age north M will get a high first round pick?
If so TDK gets an 800K offer at 4-6 years at his age and we have that opportunity to get that high first round pick we have to take it ?!
The draftees coming through are high quality now and are ready to play straight away. Another 3 tall key defender and a quality 3rd tall forward would be prioritised. Harry Himmleberg would be a great add to our side either as a forward or defender!

 

[cookie monster]

Best outcome for Jack is to take control of the discussion, start taking MARKS, and kicking GOALS

Our team balance is crying out for a third tall capable of doing this. For somebody with low footy IQ, owies seems to find himself in more dangerous and active positions more often than jack does.

It's really on Jack here. His current output (ie. Insufficient) drives this discussion. Sure he tries his guts out, and we love that, but the output needs to be higher. Our team balance is crying out for a third tall that can have impact.

Hopefully he's allowed to settle in a permanent third tall role over the coming weeks and prove to the footy world his actual worth

 

[Jeremias]

Is B mckay in the same boat as TDK that if Mckay goes free agency at 800k 4 year deal at his age north M will get a high first round pick?
If so TDK gets an 800K offer at 4-6 years at his age and we have that opportunity to get that high first round pick we have to take it ?!
The draftees coming through are high quality now and are ready to play straight away. Another 3 tall key defender and a quality 3rd tall forward would be prioritised. Harry Himmleberg would be a great add to our side either as a forward or defender!

Not quite the same. McKay is a free agent, whilst TDK will simply be out of contract.

We have posters suggesting TDK is somewhat likely to sign a 2 year deal to take him through to free agency.

That makes more sense to me than a club offering him a huge contract. At this point he’s not worth it, and I doubt he will be at any point this season.

Himmelberg would be a great get regardless.

 

[teddy-hopkins]

Jack competes for marks and is pretty much guaranteed to drop most contested marks he gets hands to.

He doesn't get many looks at marks as he's very rarely the target. He has gotten a little bit selfish lately I noticed. Burned Acres or someone who was in space for the handball and tried to hook a left foot snap in the first quarter. Actually contested against a teammate (who was running into goal) for a ground ball last week which wasn't great.

Maybe a sign he feels he has to hit the scoreboard a bit more to keep his spot? I don't think that's true. He put that left footed stab pass on Ed's chest last week and brought Charlie back onto the ball for a simple mark / set shot. He also got out the back and handballed over to Owies for the joe-the-goose.

Those are just 3 examples off the top of my head. He and Fisher are critical to the forward line because they set up others with smart decisions/execution.

He just has to do more of that - and not worry about his own goal tally.

 

[Blue__Balls]

He doesn't get many looks at marks as he's very rarely the target. He has gotten a little bit selfish lately I noticed. Burned Acres or someone who was in space for the handball and tried to hook a left foot snap in the first quarter. Actually contested against a teammate (who was running into goal) for a ground ball last week which wasn't great.

Maybe a sign he feels he has to hit the scoreboard a bit more to keep his spot? I don't think that's true. He put that left footed stab pass on Ed's chest last week and brought Charlie back onto the ball for a simple mark / set shot. He also got out the back and handballed over to Owies for the joe-the-goose.

Those are just 3 examples off the top of my head. He and Fisher are critical to the forward line because they set up others with smart decisions/execution.

He just has to do more of that - and not worry about his own goal tally.

Circular argument.

JSOS doesn't get many looks at marks because he's very rarely the target.
JSOS is very rarely the target because he doesn't make great positions in the forward line.

Love the little things he does, but he really does need to get his conversion rate up a bit to secure his spot longer term. This year's draft is looking like a very good one for front half impact players, and watching Phillipou come in and give St Kilda a spark in his debut season certainly gives some confidence that we could find a similar sort of player at the end of this year who could slide straight into the forward pocket in 2024.

 

[Wickzki]

It makes sense that it won’t get done until after the bye.
Given it’s a shorter deal, it’s easier to work out fair remuneration, as one’s not trying to predict to far into the future.
This gives Tom 10-12 games to put together a decent form line.

Good news.

But this part doesn't make much sense to me.

Usually the contracts that get announced after the bye are the longer ones that take time to completely work out (i.e. Cripps).

If it was only a smaller - shorter - deal it'd be easy to sign and to assign the salary to the cap slot we have for it.

The longer he takes to sign it the greater the opportunity for other opponents to come over the top with a monster deal.

 

[Arr0w]

Good news.

But this part doesn't make much sense to me.

Usually the contracts that get announced after the bye are the longer ones that take time to completely work out (i.e. Cripps).

If it was only a smaller - shorter - deal it'd be easy to sign and to assign the salary to the cap slot we have for it.

The longer he takes to sign it the greater the opportunity for other opponents to come over the top with a monster deal.

TDK is backing himself in to show his continued improvement, which will benefit his short term deal

 

[Wickzki]

TDK is backing himself in to show his continued improvement, which will benefit is short term deal

The difference in the contract over two years isn't very much when the difference great play would make over 5 or 6 years is.

I don't like it from the club's side.

 

[Robertio]

Is B mckay in the same boat as TDK that if Mckay goes free agency at 800k 4 year deal at his age north M will get a high first round pick?
If so TDK gets an 800K offer at 4-6 years at his age and we have that opportunity to get that high first round pick we have to take it ?!
The draftees coming through are high quality now and are ready to play straight away. Another 3 tall key defender and a quality 3rd tall forward would be prioritised. Harry Himmleberg would be a great add to our side either as a forward or defender!

Two firsts for De Koning if they were to let him go, and if they did let him go i would make my way down to Princes Park with my chainsaw.

 

[ferrisb]

Jack won’t be on significant wages. Let him go, we’ll just have to replace him with someone on similar wages.

I don't think I'll be able to cope seeing JSOS in another team's jumper.

I know it's irrational and overly sentimental. But I just can't...