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Carlton player Liam Jones refusing vax - Update: Jones retires from AFL

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kaiserchief13 said:
The current information provided everywhere says the covid vaccines are only 80% effective at stopping hospitalisation I believe, ergo they aren't very good
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OK.

Read the NSW stats.

Unvaccinated are 10 times more likely to develop Covid 19 and 16 times more likely to be hospitalised or killed by Covid if they develop it.

That’s very good.
 
Chief said:
OK.

Read the NSW stats.

Unvaccinated are 10 times more likely to develop Covid 19 and 16 times more likely to be hospitalised or killed by Covid if they develop it.

That’s very good.
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Can you link me to those stats? Can only find total case numbers
 
kaiserchief13 said:
The current information provided everywhere says the covid vaccines are only 80% effective at stopping hospitalisation I believe, ergo they aren't very good
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!!! What are you talking about. Go back up a couple of posts:

"two doses ... of Pfizer-BioNTech reduced the risk of testing positive by 73% in the Delta period, compared with 80% in the Alpha period"

You're also misunderstanding/misusing the stats. The "80% effective" that you cite refers to hospitalisation of people who are already Covid-positive, not the general vaccinated population.

Hard work.
 

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bing181 said:
!!! What are you talking about. Go back up a couple of posts:

"two doses ... of Pfizer-BioNTech reduced the risk of testing positive by 73% in the Delta period, compared with 80% in the Alpha period"

You're also misunderstanding/misusing the stats. The "80% effective" that you cite refers to hospitalisation of people who are already Covid-positive, not the general vaccinated population.

Hard work.
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Yeah of course because if you don't have covid why would you go to hospital with covid?
 
kaiserchief13 said:
So double jabbed cases - 3,736. 493 double jabbed were in hospital.

493 / 3,736 = 0.13, so the data doesn't show 80% but rather ~ 87% in this instance.
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If you understood how it worked, you could have made that sound much worse, as without vaccination a large percentage of those cases wouldn't have needed hospitalisation.

But you clearly don't understand how vaccine efficacy works. The unvaccinated are testing positive in NSW at over an 11 times higher rate. To simplify it, I'll multiply that denominator by 10 and you get 1.3% of the likely exposed vaccinated people getting hospitalised. (assuming vaccinated and unvaccinated are being exposed at the same rate) Now, if you're looking at ICU admissions for vaccinated in NSW - you're looking at 30/37360 - 0.08%. Deaths 0.12%. Now compare those stats to the people who have not been vaccinated

Or in other words, it's gone from a disease that a lot of people die from to a disease that we can live with.
 
kaiserchief13 said:
The current information provided everywhere says the covid vaccines are only 80% effective at stopping hospitalisation I believe, ergo they aren't very good
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An effectiveness of 80% would be remarkable for almost any preventative medicine....
 
kingswood71 said:
An effectiveness of 80% would be remarkable for almost any preventative medicine....
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This. “only 80%” wtf.

80 percent would only be a bad number as a ladder percentage the rest of the time that’s a fantastic number.
 
kaiserchief13 said:
www.cdc.gov

Understanding How COVID-19 Vaccines Work

Learn how COVID-19 vaccines work and develop immunity to the virus.
www.cdc.gov www.cdc.gov

You get infected, then your body knows (~ 80% of the time) how to fight it off from the jab
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Natural immunity wanes too. Very similar timelines to the Vax.

This has been supported strongly in studies, and also in practice through Sweden's initial strategy for dealing with COVID.

That's precisely why Sweden had to pull the pin. Their strategy was based on the expectation that people would build up natural immunity and eventually herd immunity would kick in.

But natural immunity doesn't hold. That's the whole issue.
 

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kaiserchief13 said:
So rather than studying injections how about studying healthy people and how they are like that?
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FWIW, the life expectancy in Australia in 1940 was 60. In 1970 it was 71 years. In 1980, it was 74.

In 2021 it was 84.


There's this weird myth getting around that humans live forever just by being healthy. Getting sick happens to heathy people. It always has. It happens to everyone!

We're fatter, more stressed and as unhealthy as we've ever been - yet we live 10 years longer than we did 40 years ago. Whether we like it or not, or trust big pharma or not - modern medicine, and ironically science, is what keeps us living longer.

Don't get me wrong, a healthy lifestyle is great. But it's not a ticket to live forever.
 
Lavender Bushranger said:
FWIW, the life expectancy in Australia in 1940 was 60. In 1970 it was 71 years. In 1980, it was 74.

In 2021 it was 84.


There's this weird myth getting around that humans live forever just by being healthy. Getting sick happens to heathy people. It always has. It happens to everyone!

We're fatter, more stressed and as unhealthy as we've ever been - yet we live 10 years longer than we did 40 years ago. Whether we like it or not, or trust big pharma or not - modern medicine, and ironically science, is what keeps us living longer.

Don't get me wrong, a healthy lifestyle is great. But it's not a ticket to live forever.
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People had poor diets 40-50 years ago. Cigarettes and alcohol were basically common practice (smokers die 10 years sooner).
While the food was better than what it is today, less preservatives and less fast food variety which led to more home cooked meals thanks to women who stayed indoors and did all the home duties.

Australia also had a boom in migrants which has led to a diversity in genes mixing with another. It's beneficial for later generations.

No doubt science is a big factor but it's foolish to pin it all on that alone.
 

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catscollector said:
People had poor diets 40-50 years ago. Cigarettes and alcohol were basically common practice (smokers die 10 years sooner).
While the food was better than what it is today, less preservatives and less fast food variety which led to more home cooked meals thanks to women who stayed indoors and did all the home duties.

Australia also had a boom in migrants which has led to a diversity in genes mixing with another. It's beneficial for later generations.
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Also modern medicine.
 
catscollector said:
People had poor diets 40-50 years ago. Cigarettes and alcohol were basically common practice (smokers die 10 years sooner).
While the food was better than what it is today, less preservatives and less fast food variety which led to more home cooked meals thanks to women who stayed indoors and did all the home duties.

Australia also had a boom in migrants which has led to a diversity in genes mixing with another. It's beneficial for later generations.

No doubt science is a big factor but it's foolish to pin it all on that alone.
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And yet, even when cigarettes and alcohol were introduced to the world, global life expectancy continued to rise from previous decades.

I would absolutely agree that having an increased understanding in healthy diet and living would have helped in the life expectancy stakes, but I think the single largest impact on the continued rise in life expectancy in every single country over time would be advancements in medical science.
 

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Carlton player Liam Jones refusing vax - Update: Jones retires from AFL

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