Hot Topic CARLTON SUPPORTERS ONLY - Carlton fires Captain Carlton

[Gethelred]

Carlton caught up in fresh storm over club mascot

A statement has been issued and the person at the centre of the incident has been sacked.

7news.com.au

This thread is for the discussion of the sacking of a club mascot after refusing to participate in a bar mitzvah which was allegedly sending money back to the IDF.

By taking this position and labelling the act racist, the club has taken a position on the Israel-Palestine conflict.

This thread concerns a discussion of the following:

• whether it is acceptable for the club to fire someone for taking a political stance.
• whether it is a good idea for the club to have taken a public position on this issue.

This thread is not a thread in which you should partake in expressing your political beliefs concerning the conflict, nor is it somewhere in which forum rules do not apply.

Should you seek to participate in conversation related to the war, you can do so here:

Mid East - Israel declare war after Hamas attack IV - Probable Case of Genocide

Continued from Part III https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/israel-declare-war-after-hamas-attack-iii.1381570/ Original Post, October 7, 2023: Israel declares state of war In response to the attacks, which appear to have caught the Israel Defence Forces (IDF) by surprise, Israel has...

www.bigfooty.com

There's also a thread on the SRP for a more robust discussion than can be permitted here:

Moved Thread - Blues mascot 'Captain Carlton' sacked after walking out of Bar Mitzvah and comments about Zionists.

Blues off to a flyer for the off season :D But surely one can criticise the actions of the IDF without being 'anti semitic' ‘Not doing this for f---ing Zios’: Captain Carlton mascot storms out of Bar Mitzvah celebration A man working as a mascot for the Carlton Football Club has stunned...

www.bigfooty.com

If you wish to participate in this thread, do so knowing that this will not be allowed to escalate beyond a point.

Thanks all!

 

[branedotorg]

#1062; The Terrible Sea Lion

This sea lion has made the rounds. Also, a clarification on the sea lion character. Updated reaction images are also available.

wondermark.com

 

[ferrisb]

Depends on circumstances, like:

Was CC on stage/directly part of the ceremony etc. directly implicated when the funding to IDF was announced?

How common is it for CC to do private parties as part of his job? Is it a twice a week thing, or an occasional favour?

It also depends on how dramatic and loud him leaving was.

We don't have any of these details.

I was sent the following well before the news broke publicly*.

CC was crouched behind the band, while the bar mitzvah boy was giving a speech.
He was supposed to jump out as a surprise when the boy finished his speech.
CC saw Israeli flags overhead and heard the boy say he would donate his cash presents to wounded Israeli soldiers.
CC was overheard telling the band 'I'm not doing this for f*ing Zios' and bolted.


* I think this is fairly consistent with what was reported by the media. Which to me suggests it was either a) reported accurately by the media or b) the media has run with what it was told without questioning.

 

[mickelboy182]

I was sent the following well before the news broke publicly*.

CC was crouched behind the band, while the bar mitzvah boy was giving a speech.
He was supposed to jump out as a surprise when the boy finished his speech.
CC saw Israeli flags overhead and heard the boy say he would donate his cash presents to wounded Israeli soldiers.
CC was overheard telling the band 'I'm not doing this for f*ing Zios' and bolted.


* I think this is fairly consistent with what was reported by the media. Which to me suggests it was either a) reported accurately by the media or b) the media has run with what it was told without questioning.

If that turns out to be true, I reckon the Club is going to have an unfair dismissal claim to work through.

 

[azlou]

I reckon the mods are earning there pay in this thread

 

[Sector 7G]

If that turns out to be true, I reckon the Club is going to have an unfair dismissal claim to work through.

I wonder if Jeremy Leibler, President of the Zionist Federation of Australia and Partner at ABL will represent Carlton pro bono, given it has been reported that it was his families party

 

[Bletch]

I wonder if Jeremy Leibler, President of the Zionist Federation of Australia and Partner at ABL will represent Carlton pro bono, given it has been reported that it was his families party

Too conflicted in that case you'd think. But checks out that he's involved.

CC might be wise to engage Josh Bornstein at MB, who may also take it on pro bono (I think he may have for Antoinette Lattouf).

 

[Aphrodite]

I wonder if Jeremy Leibler, President of the Zionist Federation of Australia and Partner at ABL will represent Carlton pro bono, given it has been reported that it was his families party

Has been reported that he was a guest amongst other Jewish community leaders.

 

[branedotorg]

I reckon the mods are earning there pay in this thread

given i earn nothing but ire from you lot and and an incredulous look from my partner when i tell her i 'volunteer' on here ... not quite sure how to take that

 

[ferrisb]

given i earn nothing but ire from you lot and and an incredulous look from my partner when i tell her i 'volunteer' on here ... not quite sure how to take that

You deserve triple what they're paying you!!!!

 

[ferrisb]

given i earn nothing but ire from you lot and and an incredulous look from my partner when i tell her i 'volunteer' on here ... not quite sure how to take that

I get that look from wifey for going on bigfooty during the off-season.

If I 'volunteered' on here during the year, I think her eyes would roll back so hard they'd fall out her ankles...

 

[mickelboy182]

given i earn nothing but ire from you lot and and an incredulous look from my partner when i tell her i 'volunteer' on here ... not quite sure how to take that

More ire then? We'll see what we can do but no promises.

 

[Dramoth]

Collecting/raising money was not the purpose of the job. It was the bah mitzvah. Just because someone was passing around a hat (which people don't have to place anything in by the way), still has nothing to do with the job CC was hired to do. It wasn't a party where drugs were being passed around (which he would have every right to walk out of, being illegal). CC's moral compass kicked in (which is totally fine) but he still had a job to do.

Separating church and state has always been a difficult place to play in!

If they asked him to put some money in the hat, that's outside of the scope of the job description. If the club gave a gift to the kid, then asking a rep of the club to contribute personally while doing the work assigned by the club is a bit rude.

That's where we need to find out whether someone at the club was doing it as a favour to one of the "senior club members" who were there or whether the parents had paid for the appearance. If the club was paid for his appearance, it's a work place issxue and could end up with the club getting sued. CC should have been given explicit instructions of his duties, as laid out in a contract, at the party... you know, a couple of backflips, a photo op with the kid, shake some hands, get the **** out of there once you've fulfilled your duties.

If it was done as a favour for a club member, then there needs to be an investigation and heads need to roll.

 

[ferrisb]

given i earn nothing but ire from you lot and and an incredulous look from my partner when i tell her i 'volunteer' on here ... not quite sure how to take that

Only one poster (understandably) didn't laugh at brane's pain...

 

[katmanblue]

I think the issue is the parameters here are perilously difficult to navigate without talking about the conflict.

Take the issue as you've defined it here: a purely bipartisan stance would make CC sackable on either side; he is either storming out on a club obligation or party to fundraising for a regime whose actions have been repeatedly condemned by the Australian government. A complete lose-lose situation which the club is responsible for.

Should the club have sent home there in the first place?

 

[ctwenty1]

If that turns out to be true, I reckon the Club is going to have an unfair dismissal claim to work through.

'I'm not doing this for f*ing Zios' and then not fulfilling your contractually (presumably there is a contract of employment) obligated duties may not give you a strong case for unfair dismissal. Providing money to injured IDF soldiers does not mean that 13 year old is a zionist. Nor does being a member of the IDF automatically indicate that they themsellves are zionists. Further, the manner by which the services were denied would also be relevant "I'm not doing this for f*cking Zios" is pretty unprofessional so would imagine that could be a trigger for termination, particulalry such a public facing role.

Further, you would need to demonstrate how zionism is so offensive to you that you beleive you have right to deny services for which you have been engaged.

What however would be relevant (and to the potential benefit of CC) is how CC was there? Is this a service that Carlton offer ie you can hire out CC for events or was he there as a favour to someone? That could muddy how the actions of the club are perceived.

Based on what has been posted (and deleted ) in this thread, an indivudual's view on CC"s action and punishmnet are heavily influenced by that individual's own view of what is happening in Gaza.

 

[katmanblue]

There are some protections under law for employee's expressing political views. See the recent Antoinette Lattouf vs ABC case. The ABC argued that she had been told to avoid "controversial" topics in her online posting. She then shared a post by the HRC that was critical of Israel's actions in Gaza. Pro-Israel lobbyists bombarded ABC management with requests for her dismissal, and they caved. She sues and wins. ABC's handling of the issue was abysmal.

This issue does not seem to be that far removed from the Lattouf case. What will be relevant will be exactly what was said, and to whom, and how that was said. If he expressed his opinion on the matter in a non-abusive manner, it's likely he will have a case for unfair dismissal. If he used the words and tone of expression as reported in the press (and I'm not taking what the media has reported here as fact), then his dismissal probably stands.

Yes, that's the crux of it.

I wonder if has a case for "unsafe work environment" or some such.

 

[katmanblue]

I was sent the following well before the news broke publicly*.

CC was crouched behind the band, while the bar mitzvah boy was giving a speech.
He was supposed to jump out as a surprise when the boy finished his speech.
CC saw Israeli flags overhead and heard the boy say he would donate his cash presents to wounded Israeli soldiers.
CC was overheard telling the band 'I'm not doing this for f*ing Zios' and bolted.


* I think this is fairly consistent with what was reported by the media. Which to me suggests it was either a) reported accurately by the media or b) the media has run with what it was told without questioning.

The media make it sound like he lambasted the kid and made a huge scene. I don't think that is consistent with your comment.

 

[Will_Hayward]

Based on what has been posted (and deleted ) in this thread, your view on CC"s action and punishmnet are heavily influenced by your own view of what is happening in Gaza.

Pot. Kettle.

 

[mickelboy182]

Pot. Kettle.

Couldn't quite believe what I was reading.

 

[ctwenty1]

Pot. Kettle.

que? my use of "your" wasnt directed at anyone although I appreciate now I did quote Mickleboy, so will edit to avoid confusion

 

[mickelboy182]

It clear you have limited capacity to understand different viewpoints

So not surprised

I have repeatedly stressed that the facts of this matter are what will ultimately swing the pendulum one way or the other, and that has absolutely zilch to do with the conflict. Miss me with the vacuous gotcha.

 

[Pixelshooter]

As I've said earlier, this is a pretty simple case for mine.

When the boy said he was donating funds to wounded Israeli soldiers, and CC simply walked out, I very much doubt any action would have been taken by the club...perhaps a stern talking to at worst.

But once he added "I’m not doing this for f**ing Zios", that's a whole different story. At that point, he's not just expressing a personal view - he’s bringing the club he represents into disrepute. And that’s fair game for disciplinary action IMO.

 

[BlackGoanna]

The Carlton Football Club is a very politically correct, inclusive, culturally sensitive club.

One could argue that we are more focussed on being this and not enough on the ruthlessness of being a good football team. In any event, they can both co-exist to an extent.

You all really think our club with likes of Paddy Kinnersley on the board are not going to have done a full investigation before arriving at the decision to step this guy down. The very nature of the dismissal would have gone to board level and would have been given legal sign-off and reputation management would have been highly considered.

There is a person behind that CC uniform. Somehow you are mixing all that up. What is a Carlton employee turned up as invited guest to AWFL players party and vilified to pro LGBT crowd. You would all be calling for his head on a stick, rather than all the virtue signalling in this thread.

 

[goreds]

I think this is a reasonable point, but there is a clear problem.

Is it a reasonable expectation of CC's job that he participate in a politically charged event without prior knowledge.

If he was asked to attend a function which turned out to be for the Communist party, but which was not described to him as such, would he have recourse for being unreasonably tasked with participating in a group which he disagrees?

If it was a politically charged event, then he shouldn't be there and should leave.

If someone at the Jewish religious event has decided to ask people for donations, for whatever the reason, it is still on the individual they are asking to donate or not, a reasonable way of showing you don't agree is to not donate. In CCs case, get on with entertaining the kids at the Bar Mitzvah (the reason you are there).

Your point is valid in a case of an organised event with hate speech!

 

[ferrisb]

The media make it sound like he lambasted the kid and made a huge scene. I don't think that is consistent with your comment.

I have only read the channel 7 article linked in the OP. The only part of the article that actually discusses the incident says

It has been alleged that when the man realised that funds were going to soldiers, he suddenly walked out and made a racist comment.

“I’m not doing this for f******* Zios (Zionists),” he allegedly said.

That seems to line up with what I posted IMO.

If the media is blowing it up beyond that, then yeah... that's not what I was told.