Carlton v Hawthorn Ranting thread

[Just Kreuzing]

Was furious.

Stayed up all night to watch the game, and the performace was sub par.

You back in the UK man? PM me.

Whilst the game was disappointing Mal, especially the first half performance the fact remains that we could of won this game and the last game and still not moved any higher on the ladder so I was resigned to 5th some weeks ago after studying the draw!

I was disappointed that we talked the talk and never walked it at all in the first half, but as the 2nd half showed and as Hawthorn in 09 you only have to really have your shit right in September!!!

We are capable of causing some headaches to anyone this year on any given day but probably lack the maturity and depth that the top 2 or 3 teams have.

 

[Dramoth]

Was furious.

Stayed up all night to watch the game, and the performace was sub par.

You back in the UK man? PM me.

I am still in Aus until wednesday week

 

[Mosca]

You absolutely cannot get away with playing conservatively in todays footy, especially against an elite team. Which is exactly how we played in the first half. We should be playing bold footy from the first bounce, not waiting until we dig ourselves into a hole until we start taking risks out there. With our type of speed and athleticism, its criminal that we don't play more 'risky, breaking the lines, take the game on' type of footy.

 

[Fluro Boots]

Will not be an A grader, simply does not have the pace and damaging disposal. He should be what he was at the start of they year which is a vary handy, physical and hard working centerman.

Has been useless since injuring his shoulder which might have exposed a weakness in his game. In all honestly I don't think he has been having a fair dinkum crack since then. He got hurt and has been put off by it. Any one who knows anything about football would know this. I'm not going to make up excuses because it's plain and simple, he's not having a go, he's holding back. I recon his poor form has nothing to do with an injury and is in his head which is not what you want to see in a player. Hope I'm wrong and hope he gets it right and finds that drive to do well again.

From memory Curnow was injured pretty badly towards the end of last year in the VFL. He must have worked hard in the offseason to be so impressive before his injury this year. He might take some time to come good but i reckon he'll definitely get back to his best. He might even pick up a bit of pace with another AFL preseason and another year on from his leg injury. Would be a massive boost if he can regain form for the finals.

 

[OldBlueFan]

I tend to agree with this. He is obviously still out of tune after such a long time out, so I think he will start taking more marks in the forward 50 and contributing more (esp goals) when resting there because of it...he does get to the ball drop but just can't seem to clunk them at the moment. But he should only be there when resting.

But his work around the ground is valuable. I honestly think he would give more value as a bona fide midfielder than as a KPF...he tackles well, is good at ground level, makes good decision and works his arse off, so at twice the size of Ellard and a better player all round would be a better option. Keep Hammer or Knockers as first ruck and bring in Setanta as full forward (Waite appears done for the year.) Would create havoc for opposition match ups. They wouldn't know what to do if if Kruze and whoever is first ruck were both there at stoppages...

It would seem the coach does too, in this week's "from the coach":

" ... and Matthew Kreuzer's committed ruck play ... ".

The sooner the club acknowledges that MK is by far our best option as the on-ball ruckman, the better.

I don't agree that they should play Warnock AND Kreuzer on the ball ... just drop Warnock and let Matty have the spot.

 

[gbatman]

for those who want to drop warnock and play just Kreuzer remember that Kreuzer has not had a preseason and has just started playing midway through this year, not to mention his lack of form. And people want him to play predominantly on the ball. Think about that for a moment.

 

[mediumsizered]

for those who want to drop warnock and play just Kreuzer remember that Kreuzer has not had a preseason and has just started playing midway through this year, not to mention his lack of form. And people want him to play predominantly on the ball. Think about that for a moment.

And is still only 22 years old & therefore should not be heavily burdened, at this stage of his career, if we don't have to.

 

[OldBlueFan]

for those who want to drop warnock and play just Kreuzer remember that Kreuzer has not had a preseason and has just started playing midway through this year, not to mention his lack of form. And people want him to play predominantly on the ball. Think about that for a moment.

Out of form as what exactly?

vs Hawthorn
Matthew Kreuzer
Kicks: 7, Marks:2, Hballs:6, Tackles:5, Hit Outs: 14
Robert Warnock
Kicks: 8, Marks:0, Hballs:4, Tackles:3, Hit Outs: 32

vs Freo
Matthew Kreuzer
Kicks: 5, Marks:1, Hballs:7, Tackles:5, Hit Outs: 6
Robert Warnock
Kicks: 2, Marks:1, Hballs:6, Tackles:5, Hit Outs: 24

vs Melb
Matthew Kreuzer
Kicks: 5, Marks:4, Hballs:7, Tackles:5, Hit Outs: 11
Robert Warnock
Kicks: 6, Marks:3, Hballs:7, Tackles:1, Hit Outs: 33


If MK is unfit and out of form ... what does that make RW? Tell me, which one of these 2 has been playing predominantly on the ball during the games listed above?

If Matty had played on the ball as much as Warnock in the last three weeks his numbers (except maybe for hitouts) would be double those of Warnock. Not only that, he adds pressure, determination, bullocking and strength to every contest he's a part of.

And to you MSR, do you listen to interviews and insider commentary on Kreuzer? Every time it comes up, people talk about his desire for work, how he thrives on it and puts more pressure on himself than anyone else does. Making him play a position that he's unfamiliar with and not as good at, is probably doing more harm than good.

I'm not suggesting the club should put the weight of the world on his shoulders, just let him play the role he's most familiar with and quite possibly enjoys more.

 

[gbatman]

Those stats suggest that both players are pretty ordinary. No one is tearing it up in the VFL in the ruck for us so we have to deal with it. We absolutly can not play both, we muct play a guy who rucks part time and plays as a forward like O'hAilpin. Two weak links is not on. You can not have two ruckmen on the bench if neither can play forward with a 3 man bench, it's not on.

 

[OldBlueFan]

Those stats suggest that both players are pretty ordinary. No one is tearing it up in the VFL in the ruck for us so we have to deal with it. We absolutly can not play both, we muct play a guy who rucks part time and plays as a forward like O'hAilpin. Two weak links is not on. You can not have two ruckmen on the bench if neither can play forward with a 3 man bench, it's not on.

Nice way to ignore the main point of the post!

As I said above, if Kreuzer had spent the time that Warnock has in the middle, his possession and tackle counts would be at least twice those of Warnock. Hence, my suggestion of moving him into the middle (his rightful place) and moving Warnock out of the seniors altogether.

I agree that we should only be playing one of them, and that one should be MK until RW can show at least half the determination, presence and sheer will for the ball that Matty shows.

 

[Blue since 72]

I'd suggest the club is looking after Kruezer due to fitness and protecting him on his comeback from the knee.

Neither Kruezer or 206 are currently much chop when played forward but that may change in time. Won't happen this year though.

The club has somewhat of a dilemma with Hammer on the comeback, Krueze being nursed so to speak and 206 providing excellent tap work but not much else and Irish in limbo.

Hammer may or may not get another senior opportunity this season; if they bring Irish in then really they should probably be dropping Kruezer, but do the club want to do this.

Personally I reckon the club is hoping like hell Waite can make it back so any decisions regarding playing 1 ruck or 2 rucks or Irish or Hammer will go away, at least until the start of next season.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I'd suggest the club is looking after Kruezer due to fitness and protecting him on his comeback from the knee.

Neither Kruezer or 206 are currently much chop when played forward but that may change in time. Won't happen this year though.

The club has somewhat of a dilemma with Hammer on the comeback, Krueze being nursed so to speak and 206 providing excellent tap work but not much else and Irish in limbo.

Hammer may or may not get another senior opportunity this season; if they bring Irish in then really they should probably be dropping Kruezer, but do the club want to do this.

Personally I reckon the club is hoping like hell Waite can make it back so any decisions regarding playing 1 ruck or 2 rucks or Irish or Hammer will go away, at least until the start of next season.

Great post. There are so many pros and cons in each of these selections, but even when we go with one combination, they can't be consistent for more than a week or two. Our selection committee is on a hiding to nothing because our players are not delivering as much as they should and really cementing that spot.

 

[OldBlueFan]

I'd suggest the club is looking after Kruezer due to fitness and protecting him on his comeback from the knee.

Neither Kruezer or 206 are currently much chop when played forward but that may change in time. Won't happen this year though.

The club has somewhat of a dilemma with Hammer on the comeback, Krueze being nursed so to speak and 206 providing excellent tap work but not much else and Irish in limbo.

Hammer may or may not get another senior opportunity this season; if they bring Irish in then really they should probably be dropping Kruezer, but do the club want to do this.

Personally I reckon the club is hoping like hell Waite can make it back so any decisions regarding playing 1 ruck or 2 rucks or Irish or Hammer will go away, at least until the start of next season.

If they bring in Setanta or Hampson with the intention that they play as forward/back-up ruck, then Warnock will (and should) be dropped.

There is no way the club will drop a player who gives as much as Kreuzer does. His attack on the ball is Robinson-like and clearly Ratts respects that sort of endeavour. See the kudos he reserved for Matty in the latest "from the coach", do you think he added the special mention of Kreuzer's "committed ruck play" just for the hell of it?

 

[Blue since 72]

If they bring in Setanta or Hampson with the intention that they play as forward/back-up ruck, then Warnock will (and should) be dropped.

There is no way the club will drop a player who gives as much as Kreuzer does. His attack on the ball is Robinson-like and clearly Ratts respects that sort of endeavour. See the kudos he reserved for Matty in the latest "from the coach", do you think he added the special mention of Kreuzer's "committed ruck play" just for the hell of it?

Don't necessarily disagree, we just don't know. They could go your way or mine, or they could do nothing.

I suggested Kruezer as they appear to be protecting him from more time in the middle and my reasons for that are stated above, plus 206 is a better tap ruckman at this point. Barring the Sydney game for Krueze which was awhile ago now (2nd game back I think) neither have offered much outside the centre square plus Krueze would surely be feeling the pinch from a restricted pre-season.

With the lack of time in the middle plus his pace isn't back yet the 'from the coach' comment sounds more like an encouragement award at this point. What do you actually get out of a comment like 'committed ruck play'.

Krueze has done bloody well coming back from his op and playing as much as he has but this year was never going to be his year to star. On the assumption that Hammer will not replace 206 as number 1 ruck this late in the day either Hammer or Irish could potentially offer more than Krueze in the forward line for the remainder of the season.

 

[OldBlueFan]

Don't necessarily disagree, we just don't know. They could go your way or mine, or they could do nothing.

I suggested Kruezer as they appear to be protecting him from more time in the middle and my reasons for that are stated above, plus 206 is a better tap ruckman at this point. Barring the Sydney game for Krueze which was awhile ago now (2nd game back I think) neither have offered much outside the centre square plus Krueze would surely be feeling the pinch from a restricted pre-season.

With the lack of time in the middle plus his pace isn't back yet the 'from the coach' comment sounds more like an encouragement award at this point. What do you actually get out of a comment like 'committed ruck play'.

Krueze has done bloody well coming back from his op and playing as much as he has but this year was never going to be his year to star. On the assumption that Hammer will not replace 206 as number 1 ruck this late in the day either Hammer or Irish could potentially offer more than Krueze in the forward line for the remainder of the season.

You get the fact that his is committed and Warnock's isn't. And in today's footy and the current Carlton team, I would hope that a "committed" player gets a game ahead of a non-committed one every week. No passengers is s'posed to be this year's motto, and most of the players seem to believe that.

Have another look at Kreuzer's two efforts on opposite wings on Friday night. One where the threw himself at the ball and almost got his head kicked off and the other where he threw himself at the marking contest and almost broke his neck when he landed. Then tell me the 2 times in the last 2 years that you've seen anything similar from Warnock.

I'd gladly take the reduced tap work for the extra midfield presence and pressure that Kreuzer provides.

I don't think they've been protecting Kreuz as much as hoping that Warnock would start to show something. During Richardson's interview on Saturday arvo on SEN he made it quite clear that Warnock's efforts outside of his tap work had been disappointing and is an area of the game he "needs to work on".

Generally, when coaches are talking about senior players with something to "work on", it's an indication that if an alternative presents itself, they'll find themselves in the seconds so that they can do the "work". On the other hand, players whose efforts are being recognised by the senior coach are rarely in line for being dropped to the seconds.

But you're right, we are both only guessing and time will tell.

 

[Blue since 72]

You get the fact that his is committed and Warnock's isn't. And in today's footy and the current Carlton team, I would hope that a "committed" player gets a game ahead of a non-committed one every week. No passengers is s'posed to be this year's motto, and most of the players seem to believe that.

Have another look at Kreuzer's two efforts on opposite wings on Friday night. One where the threw himself at the ball and almost got his head kicked off and the other where he threw himself at the marking contest and almost broke his neck when he landed. Then tell me the 2 times in the last 2 years that you've seen anything similar from Warnock.

I'd gladly take the reduced tap work for the extra midfield presence and pressure that Kreuzer provides.

I don't think they've been protecting Kreuz as much as hoping that Warnock would start to show something. During Richardson's interview on Saturday arvo on SEN he made it quite clear that Warnock's efforts outside of his tap work had been disappointing and is an area of the game he "needs to work on".

Generally, when coaches are talking about senior players with something to "work on", it's an indication that if an alternative presents itself, they'll find themselves in the seconds so that they can do the "work". On the other hand, players whose efforts are being recognised by the senior coach are rarely in line for being dropped to the seconds.

But you're right, we are both only guessing and time will tell.

206 is as committed at the 'ruck contest' as anyone and Richardson is only stating what many of us on here have been saying for months re his around the ground work.

Kruezer will probably always be more committed to the contest in general, either it's in your makeup or it isn't but surely you'd agree neither of these blokes is giving us anything above minimal value when they have been playing forward.

Resting Krueze is no slight on his commitment or ability but if the decision for the rest of the season is to persist with 2 rucks a combination of 206 doing the majority of tap work and one of Irish or Hammer forward with ideally Waite as well may yield better results.

TBH as stated in my original post if Waite can get up all this chatter would most likely stay just that, chatter.

 

[OldBlueFan]

Yes, I would agree that they've been providing minimal value up forward, but I disagree as to who's of greater benefit in the middle and around the ground.

The numbers I've posted above pretty much prove that. Kreuzer has matched Warnock in disposals, tackles and marks despite the fact that he's played predominantly in the forward line. If he'd been mainly on the ball (like Warnock has) his numbers would be much better and therefore, he's the better option ... IMO.

 

[gbatman]

Nice way to ignore the main point of the post!

As I said above, if Kreuzer had spent the time that Warnock has in the middle, his possession and tackle counts would be at least twice those of Warnock. Hence, my suggestion of moving him into the middle (his rightful place) and moving Warnock out of the seniors altogether.

I agree that we should only be playing one of them, and that one should be MK until RW can show at least half the determination, presence and sheer will for the ball that Matty shows.

As I mentioned earlier, Kreuzer did not play the second half of last season, had a knee reco, did not have a good preseason and did not resume playing until mid way through this year and as mediumsizered said is only 22 and should not be pushed. It's a good effort he is playing seniors at all.

I doubt he has the fittness to play as a number 1 ruckman which means playing midfield for a good majority of the game and if we did go this way then Warnock has to play as a forward which is a loss to us or Setanta comes in which means Kreuzer would have to spend most of his time in the ruck. Can't see Kreuzer being even close to beign able to spend the time in the ruck Warnock has. Good on the club for working on him as a forward but at this stage it's not giving us much.

Playing Kreuzer and O'hAilpin together means Setanta would have to spend more time than usual in the ruck which might not be a great thing but on the other hand might be handy around the ground.

Kreuzer's tap work is not great, the better ruckmen will beat him in the center more often than not. Kreuzer's strength is his around the ground work but he has not got the fittness to play on ball and influence a game for very long. Warnock is in to feed our midfield but it's unfortunate that he is giving us no extra. The ruck has been a weakness this year but we still have the stock to resolve this next year.

 

[OldBlueFan]

Kreuzer's tap work is not great, the better ruckmen will beat him in the center more often than not. Kreuzer's strength is his around the ground work but he has not got the fittness to play on ball and influence a game for very long. Warnock is in to feed our midfield but it's unfortunate that he is giving us no extra. The ruck has been a weakness this year but we still have the stock to resolve this next year.

Why didn't you say you were a member of the club's fitness staff ... would have saved us a lot of time.

 

[blue gunslinger]

It has to be a concern the lack of marks to Kreuz and Warnock not just when fwd but across the park

 

[Poseidon]

Warnock enters the contest like a guy who doesn't even want the ball, just sticking his hands up and going through the motions hoping like hell that he does something right. If he does get the ball he acts like it's a grenade he has to get rid of within seconds, is he low on confidence or what?

 

[The_Wookie]

all the Blues v hawks reviews and comments from the monday night footy shows - On the Couch, One week at a time and Footy Classified. (for those who missed it)

[youtube]2dqvNOpm_Rc[/youtube]

 

[Poseidon]

Thanks Wookie

 

[The_Wookie]

AFL Insiders view of the weekend game
[youtube]EP6fp0QaReY[/youtube]

The Winners (Foxtel) highlights
[youtube]jNeUpjbuErY[/youtube]

 

[MC_9]

all the Blues v hawks reviews and comments from the monday night footy shows - On the Couch, One week at a time and Footy Classified. (for those who missed it)

[youtube]2dqvNOpm_Rc[/youtube]

Wookie you are a gun.

Do you put these up yourself, or just grab them from youtube?