Carlton V Hawthorn thread

[HBF]

Is Eddie Bear and Panda or a Polar Bear??

Oh god, you had to ask. Oh, nice yellow card.

 

[AlecDuncan]

There's a head-to-head thread on the Hawks' board. Hopefully I've made the Carlton case adequately.

 

[Philhawk]

There's a head-to-head thread on the Hawks' board. Hopefully I've made the Carlton case adequately.

You guys both did brilliantly.

Groove's take on Hawthorn

Last Week:

The Hawks ventured down to their second at home at Launceston’s Aurora Stadium in Round One, where they took on a young Sydney outfit. Despite much of the post-match media analysis hyping up the performances of the Sydney youngsters, Hawthorn coach Alistair Clarkson was rapt with the efforts of some of his lesser lights in the Hawks’ two-point win. The uncapped Jarryd Morton and Beau Muston did their selection chances no harm, whilst Tom Murphy was solid down back.

Team Lineup

The Hawks will most likely take a similar lineup into this week’s clash with Carlton, with minimal changes likely. Stuart Dew, Rick Ladson, and Ben McGlynn have already been ruled out of NAB Cup action, whilst there may still be some doubt about defenders Trent Croad and Campbell Brown being risked for action too early. Recent draft pick Brendon Whitecross may come under consideration, whilst Mark Williams will be better for his first-up run last Sunday following a knee injury in 2007.

Game style

After battling both the wind of Launceston and a typical Paul Roos gameplan last Sunday, the hard-running Hawks will relish a return to the Telstra Dome this week. The long range forecast predicts rain, so expect the roof to be closed, further enhancing the Hawthorn ‘switch and run’ game out of defence. The Hawks will again operate a smaller half-forward line, with Lance Franklin and Tim Boyle playing deeper inside the 50m arc. An open game promises, with a youthful Carlton side likely to attack the game in similar fashion

Matchups

Tom Murphy/Steve Gilham v Brendan Fevola: Probably the only defensive move Alistair Clarkson has to concern himself with this week, and it will be interesting to see which way the Hawks go. Assuming a similar lineup to last week, the decision will probably rest with either Steve Gilham or Tom Murphy. Given what the match committee know of Gilham through his solid 2007, expect Murphy to be tested with the first crack on the dangerous Blues forward.

Lance Franklin v Jarrod Waite: Great matchup here, with Waite close to an ideal match-up for the dangerous Hawk. He certainly has the agility and speed to go with Franklin, but will he last the distance? ‘Buddy’ got into the Sydney game in the second half, confirming that he has a decent engine to go with the rest of the package.

Midfield v Midfield:

Both the above match-ups will ultimately be decided by what happens in the middle. The young Blues midfield is starting to come of age, with Bryce Gibbs & Marc Murphy getting amongst it in Round One. Throw in the ‘virtual recruit’ Nick Stevens, and the Hawks will have to be on their game. Thankfully the Hawks are putting out an experienced midfield lineup, with skipper Sam Mitchell, vice-captain Luke Hodge, and 2007 B&F winner Brad Sewell all appearing in the previous round. Adding to that will be more midfield time for the emerging Grant Birchall, Xavier Ellis, Travis Tuck, and Josh Kennedy, which bodes well for the season ahead.

Summary:

The Hawks might have appeared to have limped over the line last Sunday, but the club will be happy with a tough hitout first-up against bogey opposition. Both Hawthorn and Carlton will play an expansive, hard running style, which should see both sides capable of kicking a score. Whoever can take control in the middle will win this match, and I fancy the Hawks midfield might be a bit too experienced for the still developing Blues.

Hawthorn by 15 points

 

[Philhawk]

AlecDuncan's take on Carlton:

Y'all,
philhawk has kindly asked for a Blues perspective on Saturday's match, so here it is. Firstly it's a relief to see the trash-talking come back ever since the fizzled Thornton trade. Just remember you need to keep it up otherwise the Richmond clowns will make you look complacent. It's almost like the 80s. I expect Hawk fans especially hope it is.

As everyone recognises, the Hawks are a few steps ahead of us in the rebuild phase, while we still need to pay our dues before we're taken seriously again.

First off you won't see too many changes to our side from last week. Injuries limited our choices last week, and the missing players will probably be given another week. Fisher has broken his thumb, so he'll be out for a few months (but fortunately only a handful of H&A games). Players to miss through injury: Judd; Benjamin; Both O'hailpins; Ackland; Hadley; Fisher; Hartlett; Bentick. Five of those would be in our regular squad, so not at top strength, but not too far off it.

I'm going against the Carlton board tide and say that Fisher's replacement will be Bannister - if we want to win, or Austin - if we just want to give kids experience.

Kids

The kids who played last week: Pffeifer(36); Hampson(22); Armfield(27); Jamison(40); Edwards(37); Ellard(46); Grigg(16); and Kreuzer(8) in order of effectiveness. All did well.

Pffiefer is a retread after being delisted by Adelaide - the steal of the PSD going by last week's display. Likes to run, put his head over the ball and finds it - was a 1st round pick in 2005, but luck and poor choices put him on Neil Craig's wrong side. Armfield is a late pick in last year's draft and is older than a lot of our list. He just doesn't stop. Never mind second efforts, this guy makes third and fourth efforts. Jamison is our nominated-rookie, which means he can play all games without there being a LTI. He was picked up from the VFL as a Gavin Crosisca protegee. Hasn't disappointed down back since and already has the composure of a 100 game veteran.

Edwards is the son of Butch, who almost buried us in the 1979 GF when he played for Collingwood. Wasn't seen a lot but got better and more sure of himself as the game wore on. That last quarter mark should fix any self-belief issues. Grigg's dad was a rugby league international so he's also got a bloodline. He's a rangy, quick running type who would be expected to play on a forward flank or wing. Ratten had him on the last line in a pocket and he looked comfortable there last week. Ellard is a 2nd round rookie pick and on the small side. However he went OK last week and his size didn't look like a problem against the thin Port midfield.

Kreuzer got a goal with his first kick, which puts him in select company, but he's actually in rarer company than that. Kicking a goal with your first kick - on your wrong foot. Not bad for on the run, 40m out on an angle. Will need to adjust to the pace of AFL, but judging by that example will have less adjusting than most.

The thing with kids is that you can't judge them either way by a single game. They'll be up and down until they mature.

Although we knocked off Port, we were beaten at stoppages - and that's without Lade, and the Bourgoines. The on-ballers did work hard to help the defence and used the ball smarter when going forward so we got over that, but if they aren't better at centre-bounces we'll be smashed.

We all remember the horrific smashing we got at stoppages during the hyped round 12 game last year. Part of that was due to having no recognised ruckman (Ackland didn't count). Hampson will go a long way to remedying that. We still don't have a stoppage-specialist midfielder of any repute, like Mitchell, and that will hurt us. Bentick is as close to that as we have and he's jogging laps instead.

The Usual Suspects

It's probably easier to talk about the experienced players rather than the kids - there's so fewer of them. The ones who need to lift: Murphy (yes we regard him as experienced after only 35 games); Carrazzo; Stevens; Cloke; and Fevola. Houlihan was as good as ever, which meant only 30% of supporters called for his head this week.

Fev's still recovering from a brace of operations and his kicking boot was pretty rusty last week. Still competed and created goals with his bustling. Stevens is coming back after a year of sitting staring straight ahead, so it's understandable that he was tagged out of the game. Cloke is also coming back after another reco, so he's rusty as well. They'll all be better for the run, but won't dominate. Murphy and Carrazzo will be better because they always are.

Matchups

• Waite v Franklin: should be a beauty depending on what frame of mind each brings. Waite started slowly last week but by the second half was impassable. Buddy will have to bring his defensive game because Waite loves to run and is an opportunist. OTOH, Waite will need to bring his concentration because Buddy can tear open a game in minutes.
  
• Hampson v Campbell: whenever we were slipping back last week, Ratten threw Hampson in the ruck and he turned it around. He seems to thrive on work in the heat, and is almost the fastest player at the club. Still has a lot to learn about rucking, but is exceptional for a recent soccer convert. Won a lot of frees last week against Brogan and might again this week if Campbell gets too enthusiastic about using his bulk. Hampson will jump over Campbell and run him around the ground, but Campbell will win at throw-ins. The problem will come if he's asked to do the same on Taylor as well. Come on Cam - lift your game.
  
• Fevola v Gilham: This is just another week in Fev's recovery. Still, I expect the Hawks will double-team him like they have before, so it's up to Jake Edwards to provide a strong target. That's a lot of responsibility for a kid who's still not sure of himself.
  
• Russell v Hodge: Hodge off a HBF for me, and Russell to both tag him and also work as a lead-up HF. Wasn't noticed much against Port, but contributed. Will need to be involved more to keep his place. What better way to keep him involved than make him responsible for Hodge? OTOH, if we just want to snuff Hodge out, we'll put Bannister on him - it's the kind of role he seems to relish.
  
• Armfield v Mitchell: Armfield shouldn't have to be thrown into this role, but I expect he will and that he'll love it even if he gets a lesson. Mitchell is the master and Armfield loves being amongst it, so where better to be than next to him.
  
• Jamison v Williams: Thornton's done it before and will probably get dibs on Williams if he's too much for Jamison.
  
• Thornton v Roughhead: Roughhead is a better player than anyone Port had in their forward line last week so Thornton will probably stay down back. Bret looks in good touch after snaring a few rare goals last week while spotting at CHF.

That said, if we get pumped in the middle it won't matter what the match-ups are.

In summary I hope it's a contest, that there's no tears, our kids learn something useful, and we get to play on a decent ground the following week. I'm tipping a five goal win to the Hawks, unless they're even less serious about the NAB Cup than we are.

cya
AD

PS Last week's highlights if anyone's interested.

 

[lopezz]

Will very much be there.
I think it is important to note that the result here is not the be all and end all. It's more about the development of our players, and learning the new game plan.

Would usually agree, but i have to go with four mad Hawks fans, so a win is a must for me

 

[Bluebear]

What..........no Stewie Dew???

I'm not going.

 

[thylacine60]

What..........no Stewie Dew???

I'm not going.

I am. Now there'll be pies.

 

[Blues_Man]

Lol @ " battling the winds of Launceston " It was perfect clear still day here .
I guess they need a reason for poor goalkicking

 

[Bluebear]

I am. Now there'll be pies.

He needs to play or my avatar is wasted............

 

[The Blueseum]

1
a) 30.30.210
b) 1969
c) 'Percy' Jones
d) Alex Jesaulenko
e) ?

2. Daniel Harford, Glen Bowyer, Simon Beaumont, Brett Johnson, Kevin Heath
3. 1986 & 1987
Bonus question: 1976. We won the first 7 games in a row, lost 5 in a row, won the next 9, drew Round 22 against the Bulldogs (I think the final score was 107 points each) & then lost 2nd semi & PF to Hawthorn & North Melbourne respectively.

Outstanding answer.

The only one missed was the 4th quarter of Round 2, 1969, when the Blues kicked 12 goals 6. This, incidentally, is our equal best 4th quarter ever.

http://www.blueseum.org/tiki-index.php?page=Round+2,+1969

From the Blueseum

 

[thylacine60]

Outstanding answer.

The only one missed was the 4th quarter of Round 2, 1969, when the Blues kicked 12 goals 6. This, incidentally, is our equal best 4th quarter ever.

http://www.blueseum.org/tiki-index.php?page=Round+2,+1969

From the Blueseum

Did Simon Minton-Connel not get a game for the Hawks? Didn't he end up there?

 

[The Blueseum]

Did Simon Minton-Connel not get a game for the Hawks? Didn't he end up there?

http://www.blueseum.org/tiki-index.php?page=At+Hawthorn

Yes, Minton-Connell played for both clubs. The question asked for 5 crossovers, there were a number of correct answers, all available through the above link.

From the Blueseum

 

[thylacine60]

Cheers.