Carlton's list is over-rated

[mac25]

l believe a significant number of Carlton's fans continue to over-rate our list.
Our performance against Essendon a month ago showed some real holes, a one dimensional game plan and a number of players that clearly are not up to standard against the better sides.

In tonight's the game the following players have doubts whether they can take us to a top 4 side.

Hartlett- clearly not a senior Afl player
Johnson- at best is a fringe player
Fisher- a one dimensional player whom is no longer a forward threat to the opposition.
Austin - hopefully will improve but decision making is quite ordinary.
Bentley - not a senior Afl player
Russell - is found out against good opposition, a non creative footballer
Houihan- ordinary tonight and is very much a borderline player
Hampson- has shown some improvement but a long way to go, and we have a oversupply of ruckman and a real lack of young tall forwards.
Yarran- needs a another 12 months to make a firm judgement, however l find it laughable the people saying Rich has no scope for improvement, the reality is he is so far in front of the other young drafted players they will be spending the next three years catching up.

We clearly lack a some young forwards and this will hinder our progress if we cannot find a solution here and the reality is we are quite a distance from the better sides, sure we have some players out but the reality is there will always be some unavailable players over the course of the year, unlike some fans l see Kruezer as a ruckman and a resting deep forward, l just don't believe he is in the mould of a Riewoldt were he is very quick over the first 10 metres to fill Centre half forward.

The last point is that the constant bagging Nick Stevens has copped in the last few weeks is justified to a point, and the point l make he is a quality player, unlike some of the above, and based on his contractual situation the only option is for our club to find a way to extract the best out of him, as unlike some recent posts, l think we still seriously need him in our team which is not just based on tonight's game, we were blessed after the Essendon game to play three bottom five teams

Look forward to any comments on these points.

 

[richoatthedisco]

You forgot Carrazzo, Simpson, Scotland, Joseph and Betts.

 

[Big Red is back]

l believe a significant number of Carlton's fans continue to over-rate our list.
Our performance against Essendon a month ago showed some real holes, a one dimensional game plan and a number of players that clearly are not up to standard against the better sides.

In tonight's the game the following players have doubts whether they can take us to a top 4 side.

Hartlett- clearly not a senior Afl player
Johnson- at best is a fringe player
Fisher- a one dimensional player whom is no longer a forward threat to the opposition.
Austin - hopefully will improve but decision making is quite ordinary.
Bentley - not a senior Afl player
Russell - is found out against good opposition, a non creative footballer
Houihan- ordinary tonight and is very much a borderline player
Hampson- has shown some improvement but a long way to go, and we have a oversupply of ruckman and a real lack of young tall forwards.
Yarran- needs a another 12 months to make a firm judgement, however l find it laughable the people saying Rich has no scope for improvement, the reality is he is so far in front of the other young drafted players they will be spending the next three years catching up.

We clearly lack a some young forwards and this will hinder our progress if we cannot find a solution here and the reality is we are quite a distance from the better sides, sure we have some players out but the reality is there will always be some unavailable players over the course of the year, unlike some fans l see Kruezer as a ruckman and a resting deep forward, l just don't believe he is in the mould of a Riewoldt were he is very quick over the first 10 metres to fill Centre half forward.

The last point is that the constant bagging Nick Stevens has copped in the last few weeks is justified to a point, and the point l make he is a quality player, unlike some of the above, and based on his contractual situation the only option is for our club to find a way to extract the best out of him, as unlike some recent posts, l think we still seriously need him in our team which is not just based on tonight's game, we were blessed after the Essendon game to play three bottom five teams

Look forward to any comments on these points.

Well said except Hoops I think he was good and we desperately need him in the team.

Re Stevens, Skinny fit stevo is in our best 6 and fat stevo is in our best 12

 

[djudd]

l believe a significant number of Carlton's fans continue to over-rate our list.
Our performance against Essendon a month ago showed some real holes, a one dimensional game plan and a number of players that clearly are not up to standard against the better sides.

In tonight's the game the following players have doubts whether they can take us to a top 4 side.

Hartlett- clearly not a senior Afl player
Johnson- at best is a fringe player
Fisher- a one dimensional player whom is no longer a forward threat to the opposition.
Austin - hopefully will improve but decision making is quite ordinary.
Bentley - not a senior Afl player
Russell - is found out against good opposition, a non creative footballer
Houihan- ordinary tonight and is very much a borderline player
Hampson- has shown some improvement but a long way to go, and we have a oversupply of ruckman and a real lack of young tall forwards.
Yarran- needs a another 12 months to make a firm judgement, however l find it laughable the people saying Rich has no scope for improvement, the reality is he is so far in front of the other young drafted players they will be spending the next three years catching up.

We clearly lack a some young forwards and this will hinder our progress if we cannot find a solution here and the reality is we are quite a distance from the better sides, sure we have some players out but the reality is there will always be some unavailable players over the course of the year, unlike some fans l see Kruezer as a ruckman and a resting deep forward, l just don't believe he is in the mould of a Riewoldt were he is very quick over the first 10 metres to fill Centre half forward.

The last point is that the constant bagging Nick Stevens has copped in the last few weeks is justified to a point, and the point l make he is a quality player, unlike some of the above, and based on his contractual situation the only option is for our club to find a way to extract the best out of him, as unlike some recent posts, l think we still seriously need him in our team which is not just based on tonight's game, we were blessed after the Essendon game to play three bottom five teams

Look forward to any comments on these points.

Allow me to comment on this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Its good to see someone else on here think the same as me.
I agree 110% and if you dont agree with the above you are hiding behind a rock and have no idea.

Facts are Facts

 

[djudd]

You forgot Carrazzo, Simpson, Scotland, Joseph and Betts.

You drunk clown.You got 1 right HS

 

[JuddyBuddy]

We either need to draft/trade in another key forward or really develop Hampson/Warnock as our ruck combo so Kruz can focus on being a fwd. One tall forward who can take a mark and kick a goal simply isn't gonna cut it. Another one who can present well on the lead would also be handy.

 

[jj1978]

I agree,

the hope was that our 2nd/3rd tier players would stand up this and next year.. but I don't think that will be the case.

Shoot me... but I think Gibbs is over-rated and a trade to Adelaide/Port for a high pick or good forward should be considered. Gibbs will be a decent 200+ AFL game player, but will never reach the heights we thought he would (I'll be happy to eat my words one day).

We can now officially say goodbye to Hartlett... and Houlihan should never play again in Blue, I've had enough of the princess.

Carazzo and the curse of the CFC B&F has struck... you've gone backwards!

If these boys have heart..they should be hurting from this and kill North next week.

I feel we don't deserve to make finals.... and we are a chance of not making it anyway... we should win against North and Melbourne giving us 11 wins... but I think we'll need 12 and Cats, Port, Adelaide will be tough!

 

[tubbis]

Got taken apart tonight. Reading the above posts.. your depth isn't that great and your reliance on your stars is an unhealthy one.
Time for Ratts to clean out the closet?

 

[Sir CJ]

yep, we are overrated, in fact, we are no good at all, our top 5 or 6 players are quality, but after that, it's all rubbish, this list has no depth at all, and they are coached so poorly, it's fair to say we are an absolute laughing stock atm, when you bring out such an eye-catching marketing campaign and display this inconsistent garbage you deserved to be laughed at, im devastated, shattered and embarrassed right now, and im over it, it's been too long

 

[Cruiser23]

Over-rated is a very broad word because different people have different opinions. Bandwagoners on one hand would have been expecting massive things from our list after our first two games, thinking top 4 was a possibility and getting hyped up by the media. Obviously to them right now our list is over-rated and believe we are somewhat going nowhere. Personally, i live in the reality along with most supporters here, that we hadn't made finals in 7 years, so expecting our list to rapidly make a climb to a top 4 spot is/was ludicrous.

By no means do i think our list is capable of a flag and nor do i think it will never get us there. We are still a young list with players still learning and evolving to see what they are capable of at AFL level.

A finals birth this year is a step forward, just for the group to experience a match(es) will give them a good stepping stone to improve again for 2010. Yes we can put in shockers that make us look very second rate but we have put in a fair few performances that could rival almost every team so we are capable of very good things, the consistency will come once to group grows.

There is obviously a few holes in our list that we can improve on in the coming years. We are moving forward in the right direction, if a few more pieces are added we could very well be playing deep into September soon enough.

 

[Gone Critical]

You forgot Carrazzo, Simpson, Scotland, Joseph and Betts.

Didnt have a great night but you would have to be joking, still young and developing, small forward. 30 + goals this year and scope for the midfield if develops a tank. Reminds me so much of Leon and is ahead of where Leon was at the same stage . Your list has clear deficiencies but he isnt one of them

Carl and Coll have young lists at similar stages of develpment. I know a lot on this board dont rate the Pies list but I feel we are better placed than you going forward mainly through youthful depth. Carltons top end is v good but perhaps the high draft picks have blunted your emphasis on list development that other clubs have pushed. I know you are rectifying this but it may need a few more years to bear fruit.

Adelaide would be a prime example of the importance of developing your players once you get them. Draft picks are just the raw product, deveopment is just as important. Carlton seem to rely too much on Fev Judd Murphy Kruezer(gee he looks good) and Gibbs(dont really bracket him with the others yet) and the rest of the list seem to accept they are there to back up the stars, responsibilty is lacking

Compared to us I dont see the Swans, Davis, Lockyer, Shaw, O'Brien etc types that were not fancied draft picks but have blossumed into v good responsible AFL payers. I think Betts is going to be an example of what you need to do with your list

List development thats where your challenge lies. Thoughts

 

[ctacp]

You forgot Carrazzo, Simpson, Scotland, Joseph and Betts.

wow, a tiges fan having a go at our list, now thats ironic...

ctacp
curlier than a catoggio pube

 

[BlueGibbs2011]

Over-rated is a very broad word because different people have different opinions. Bandwagoners on one hand would have been expecting massive things from our list after our first two games, thinking top 4 was a possibility and getting hyped up by the media. Obviously to them right now our list is over-rated and believe we are somewhat going nowhere. Personally, i live in the reality along with most supporters here, that we hadn't made finals in 7 years, so expecting our list to rapidly make a climb to a top 4 spot is/was ludicrous.

By no means do i think our list is capable of a flag and nor do i think it will never get us there. We are still a young list with players still learning and evolving to see what they are capable of at AFL level.

A finals birth this year is a step forward, just for the group to experience a match(es) will give them a good stepping stone to improve again for 2010. Yes we can put in shockers that make us look very second rate but we have put in a fair few performances that could rival almost every team so we are capable of very good things, the consistency will come once to group grows.

There is obviously a few holes in our list that we can improve on in the coming years. We are moving forward in the right direction, if a few more pieces are added we could very well be playing deep into September soon enough.

Really nice post. We can play exciting football on our day, but mostly we are on our learning curve and can play shockers.

I'm mostly concerned with our list overall because I want to see us win a flag in the next 3 years. All my issues centre around what key forwards we have coming through given Fev is 27 and we have nothing else, and I mean nothing. Unlike others I'm also not sold on the quality of our backline but understand they are all very young and could potentially get there!

Anyway, i'm supporting Carlton for the top 8 despite having that sneaking suspicion we are the frauds in the top 8 due to the calamity i\of injuries striking Hawthorn this year. I mostly cross my fingers, we pick up a few quality prospects for fwds and at least 1 high quality KPP for either end.

 

[Domenic Fotia]

Your correct, we have two champs Judd & Fevola plus 3 potential champs Kreuzer, Murphy and Gibbs.

After this we have maybe half a dozen solid players Bower, Grigg, Jamison, Scotland (although going through a bad patch), Simpson and Betts.

Hampson, , Austin, Yarran and Joseph are developing and should be ok.

After this;

Carrazzo - has a go, reasonable hands, but cannot kick
Thornton - takes a good mark, but cannot kick
Johnson - did we recruit this guy for his kicking ???
Russell - reasonable in defense, cannot kick
Houlihan - the great myth is his skills - ordinary
Bentley - Bullants reserves @ best
Fisher - e grade local footy @ best and thats being kind

 

[BlueGibbs2011]

Your correct, we have two champs Judd & Fevola plus 3 potential champs Kreuzer, Murphy and Gibbs.

After this we have maybe half a dozen solid players Bower, Grigg, Jamison, Scotland (although going through a bad patch), Simpson and Betts.

Hampson, , Austin, Yarran and Joseph are developing and should be ok.

After this;

Carrazzo - has a go, reasonable hands, but cannot kick
Thornton - takes a good mark, but cannot kick
Johnson - did we recruit this guy for his kicking ???
Russell - reasonable in defense, cannot kick
Houlihan - the great myth is his skills - ordinary
Bentley - Bullants reserves @ best
Fisher - e grade local footy @ best and thats being kind

Everything was going beautifully until you said these two statements. Houla does have great skills he just sometimes doesnt commit in the headspace. Thornton is a great kick based on his disposal over his career - crazy lack of observation.

Aside from that, the rest is arguably true!

 

[topdon]

Its not your top 5 players, its certainly your bottom 10. If you got another 25% output from them you'd be a more consistent side. Like Essendon, you're a young team, so you are going to have to sometimes take the good with the bad.

However, having said that, Brett Ratten to me looks like a deer in headlights in the coach's box. He is far too slow to react to the game and teams can get a real run on and shift momentum before he even makes a move.

 

[laminex]

You forgot Carrazzo, Simpson, Scotland, Joseph and Betts.

Your whole teams dip sh1t

 

[incog43]

Didnt have a great night but you would have to be joking, still young and developing, small forward. 30 + goals this year and scope for the midfield if develops a tank. Reminds me so much of Leon and is ahead of where Leon was at the same stage . Your list has clear deficiencies but he isnt one of them

Carl and Coll have young lists at similar stages of develpment. I know a lot on this board dont rate the Pies list but I feel we are better placed than you going forward mainly through youthful depth. Carltons top end is v good but perhaps the high draft picks have blunted your emphasis on list development that other clubs have pushed. I know you are rectifying this but it may need a few more years to bear fruit.

Adelaide would be a prime example of the importance of developing your players once you get them. Draft picks are just the raw product, deveopment is just as important. Carlton seem to rely too much on Fev Judd Murphy Kruezer(gee he looks good) and Gibbs(dont really bracket him with the others yet) and the rest of the list seem to accept they are there to back up the stars, responsibilty is lacking

Compared to us I dont see the Swans, Davis, Lockyer, Shaw, O'Brien etc types that were not fancied draft picks but have blossumed into v good responsible AFL payers. I think Betts is going to be an example of what you need to do with your list

List development thats where your challenge lies. Thoughts

Pretty decent post here mate, nicely said.

In truth though when you name these woods players look at their ages, Lockyer is 29, Swan 25, Shaw 24, they have the advantage of time and as such games.

Consider Jamo, Bower, Grigg, all in their early 20's and about 50 games or more behind these guys, only time will tell.

At the moment we have a situation where the ? is, which carlton side will turn up? Good carlton or bad carlton?

We can be good, at our best, would you really be keen on playing us in an elimination final? Would anyone?

At our worst, you would be licking your lips.

There has been a cleanout over the last couple of years, throw another 40 games into Gibbs, Murphy, Kreuzer, Austin, AJ, Betts as well as the players already mentioned above and things start to look different. These players do actually have to come on though, not stay where they are in a dev sense.

Waite has been a major loss, but hey, which club has not been hit with injuries this year.

We wil sit 7/8th this weekend, and thats a step forward from last year, of course, we will have to wait and see where we end up, and thats what will count.

There is real frustration on this board as to our inconsistency, skill levels, MC selections, and our coach, who in fairness, is a young coach as well.

For mine, Ratten looks totally bewildered when things break down, the look in his eyes says it all, compared to say a Knights.

If our players didnt come to play last night, he should be able to sense this, if he cant, he has failed.

As for the woods, well done last night, you have an even list and this has been proven over recent years with finals appearances.

Good luck this year.

 

[The Panther]

Like Essendon, you're a young team, so you are going to have to sometimes take the good with the bad.

Collingwood fielded a much younger side than both Carlton/Essendon.

 

[incog43]

Its not your top 5 players, its certainly your bottom 10. If you got another 25% output from them you'd be a more consistent side. Like Essendon, you're a young team, so you are going to have to sometimes take the good with the bad.

However, having said that, Brett Ratten to me looks like a deer in headlights in the coach's box. He is far too slow to react to the game and teams can get a real run on and shift momentum before he even makes a move.

+1, yes he does.

 

[IDIG]

I thought Houlihan and Johnson were terrible early. Must be oh so frustrating. Perfect example Hoops' half ass attempt at tackling Davis just before that snap from the boundary.

 

[laminex]

Got taken apart tonight. Reading the above posts.. your depth isn't that great and your reliance on your stars is an unhealthy one.
Time for Ratts to clean out the closet?

We are above you on the ladder and have a younger team, thanks for the info tho.

 

[laminex]

I thought Houlihan and Johnson were terrible early. Must be oh so frustrating. Perfect example Hoops' half ass attempt at tackling Davis just before that snap from the boundary.

I thought Hoops did ok, Johnson is just not upto AFL to be fair to him.

 

[RiCHii]

I think everyone should just harden the f**k up and take a loss on the chin. After every loss this year I have come on the board to have a little giggle at all the whingers on this board but now it's become ridiculous. In this thread I have seen Carlton supporters bagging their own players, A Richmond fan bagging our players, A RICHMOND SUPPORTER, A FUC*ING RICHMOND supporter... I thought I'd keep this comment to my self but go back to the hole you call a club and mourn over your pathetic team, an absolute shithouse football club and for you to be coming on other teams boards and calling them crap, you must be high on drugs or have consumed too much alcohole.

Secondly Carlton supporters bagging the crap out of their own team, you are not supporters. We are a young side and with youth comes inconsistancy, just grow up and take it on the chin.

and A Collingwood supporter bagging us .. where do I start, your team is almost as pathetic as Richmond. I guess your still upset about losing those Grandfinals, piss back off to your feral board you toothless scum!

 

[40yearBLUE]

Not by most level headed observers of the game that base improvement on where we came from last year and the year before not the last 3 weeks or where we sit on the ladder one week to the next. 10 percent improvement on last year (the benchmark minimum) is 11 wins. On form you would say we would get those with Roos and Melb to come. We may just jag another against one of the SA teams. That for mine puts us about where we are. 11-12 wins is where our list is right now and bottom of the 8. Next year I expect 15 wins and top 4 with the usual 4-6 changes of players. At the start of the year I thought we may leap frog a little and top 4 this year and we have been in the mix at various stages (as recently as this past week) but we are not quite top 4 yet and fair enough. Improvement will come from the current players, in the form of mental toughness, fitness, skill and determination and ability to play to our plan or the game imposed on us by an equally skilled, fit and determined opposition. It will come but it takes as long as it takes. Remember the ups and downs the cats and saints have been through getting to where they currently sit. The talk of them has been about 5 years now. Remember the night grand final they played against each other, many years ago, thats how long it has taken for them to get the game they have now.

So no our list is not overated it is rated just about where it is.