Center Clearances are our problem

[gbatman]

I think one of our biggest problem this year has been our center clearances. There are times when we just can’t appear to get the ball out of the center.

The Story So Far
In round 1 we smashed Richmond out of there but that was no big feat. In round 2 we initially beat Brisbane out of there but mid way through they had a quarter where they dominated clearances and they nearly came back and won because of it. In round 3 we dominated Essendon in the 1st quarter, kicked ourselves out of it and then had a lapse in the center where they came back and won. In round 4 we went to Sydney, again dominated early and kicked ourselves out of it, but after the 1st quarter we struggled to clear the ball from the center. In round 5 we did fairly well, perhaps the doggies force us to move around stoppages? Round 6 we did ok considering our opposition. Round 7 was disgraceful for many reasons but we got slaughtered out of the center by Sandilands and his average minions. Round 8 we didn’t have to do much to clear the ball from a very weak Collingwood side who had the same stagnant problems we do around stoppages. In round 9 Adelaide smashed us out of the center. We just couldn’t get the footy from ball up to the forward line at all Adelaide exploited our weaknesses very well. Round 10 we came up against a fairly weak side minus their main clearance player (Priddis) and we were at best average. We did ok but we should have slaughtered West Coast out of the center and beaten them by a fair bit more. A lot of our forward entries originated from rebounds out of defence which was a credit to our defence and ability to run and move the ball through the midfield that night. Round 11, can we beat Brisbane in clearances?...

What we're doing wrong
1. We are very flat footed around stoppages. We aren’t moving or moving very much. We need to get on the move around stoppages. Run to position and get run out of the center. We seem to be standing still which makes us easy to tackle and bump out of position. We are predictable to our opposition. It's less effective to take off from standing than it is to get it when on the move. We get slaughtered by a midfield that does get on the move around stoppages because we are standing still and they are already on the move and there’s nothing we can do to stop them when were stagnant.

2. Our Physicality is poor. We hardly lay a bump and our tackles have been more like big cuddles. Our physicality was better against West Coast though. I remember back to when we were last good (2000) and there was often opposition going off the ground hurt when we played them. We exhausted them with hard tackling etc. We need to lay more bumps and take every opportunity to do it. We need to make sure we dump blokes to the ground when we tackle them.

3. Shepherding is one of our biggest weaknesses as it’s something that I have seen very little of all year. We tend to handpass and run off into space instead of giving it off and getting in the road of or running through the nearest opposition.

4. Ruck taps. Our ruckmen are getting hands onto the ball but we appear to be using it poorly. This might be also due to us not being on the move around ball ups. Our ruckmen appear to be trying to keep the ball in close, this is a bit of a defencive more IMO and with the run we have from Judd and Murphy lets hit it to space and run onto it.


Our Onballers

Judd
Is our main man in the clearance department but he can only do so much. He’s tough as nails and has all the skill and doesn’t shirk an issue.

Murphy
He’s becoming better in this area. He’s a good runner and needs to use it in the center by getting on the move more. His attack on the footy is pretty good but he lacks that desire to physically hurt the opposition by laying a good bump and picking off players chasing the ball carrier (eg. Judd). Still hasn't got that "hard" body though.

Gibbs
Gibbs has the body and the skill to be a great player. At the moment he’s a good player but to take the next step and become a great player he must develop his physical game. He’s shirked a few issues latly which has been a shame. It’s obvious he doesn’t like physical contact and bumping, he avoids it. Gibbs could be the same type of player and just as good as Nathan Buckley or maybe even Voss. The physical stuff doesn’t come natural to Gibbs. He needs to work on things like taking opportunities to bump a bloke, lay a shepherd and work on being a stronger tackler. He is one of the culprits that run off after handballing rather than shepherding. His body is far from mature and eventually he will have that Voss/Buckley body and then he will need to learn to use it. He will be a very big strong man in the center but he must learn how to use it.

Stevens
Stevens pre-neck injure was a good running centerman. He was great at clearing the ball. His neck is troubling him and is playing on his mind although I am beginning to see him do the odd physical thing again. If he could get his intensity back and confidence RE his neck he could be what we need. He used to naturally like running through the center but now he appears to just want to stand still and be body on body with an opponent. He’s got a big mature body and he hurts blokes when he hits them. He needs to get his physicality back.

Joseph
He’s improving at a great rate and his jobs have been ultra defensive. It would be interesting to see how he’d go in the center on the attack. Maybe for 5 minutes a quarter? He’s naturally physical and a great tackler. I recon he would be good at putting shepherds on for players like Judd and Murphy.

Hadley
Well we have tried him and he’s not up to it. He doesn’t appear to have the body strength and struggles against an on ball group that like to be on the move. His lack of pace and poor handball along with lack of ability to hurt the opposition when we have the footy are a problem. He’s too one dimensional and not that good at the inside game.

Bentick
See Hadley although I think Bentick, being stronger and more a solid build could be slightly better but again he can’t handle the running required. His disposal is not good enough any way. Like Hadley he is not our future if we are to get to where we want to be.

Walker
Walker solves our problems with physicality and flat footedness around stoppages. He’s powerful and likes to be on the move. He’s tough and attacks the ball well. It’s been such a long time since we have seen it though. We will be a different team with him in it.

Ellard
His speed and attack on the footy suite AFL very well but his size is a worry. Although Brent Harvey is only little. Anyway if he goes well in the ants on the ball we should try him.

Carrazzo
He’s more of an outside player and more suited to the flanks.

Browne
He should be but in the center more. His attack on the ball, tackling and physicality Is good. He just needs a bigger stronger body. I tipped ages ago he’ll take over from Hadley and Bentick as our inside onballer and I’m sticking by that.

Grigg
He’s probably more suited to the flanks/wing at this stage but could easily become a good onballer with his pace and attack on the ball.
Robinson is a player who is naturally physical. I can’t wait to see him with a mature body and an AFL fitness level. His kicking is a bit average but many players are like that in their first year and I think he’ll end up being a really good kick.

Conclusion
Patience. Murphy, Walker, Robinson, Gibbs, Grigg, Ellard and Joseph are a fair way off from being physically mature. A few more long summers in the gym and they will have the bodies to take us to the next level. Looking at Rich though makes me wish we had got him. Not saying Yarran’s going to be no good, I still have faith, but Rich or Ziebell might have suited us better than we thought.

What to look forward to next year to solve this problem:

Bigger and stronger Gibbs. Walker, he'll be fit, even if he plays this year he wont have an all round level of fitness. Robinson, bigger, fitter, more skilled. Grigg, bigger, stronger fitter. Joseph smarter, stronger, bigger and looking to hurt. Murphy polished off and at his peak. Browne bigger, stronger, meaner and in the guts. Judd being Judd. Warnock letting these guys have the ball where they like.
To top it off it would be good to see Stevo over the neck and playing like he used to but I wouldn't put money one it. He's still a good player though.

 

[gbatman]

P.S. Good to see more players getting a run on the ball recently. Had to be done.

 

[BluesMan]

Well done on that! But i dont think its our major problem/downfall by far. We all know our defence is poor when the ball comes in quick and direct. I believe this is more of a problem than clearances.

 

[Team Mo']

The two best clearance players (Mitchell and Kerr) plonk themselves at the feet of the ruckmen and read the play from there. We need someone to be there when there is no tap (which happens quite regularly) instead of having the ruckmen dual it for the clearance.

Judd should be used sparingly in pack like congestions as the development of our young mids will be better for it. He should be the one getting the handballs and sprinting away rather then Gibbs getting handball receives.

A bigger body like Rooke, Soloman or Sewell is required.

 

[gbatman]

they finish at the feet of the ruckmen but often start somewhere else when the ball goes up. If you just stand there the opposition can do a number of things to prevent you getting the ball.

Rooke, Soloman, Rich, Pavlich, Kouta and Sewell are the sort of player we could do with. Lets hope one of our current ones develop to be this player. O'Keefe I have an eye on.

Now days you can't be one dimensional, you can't be just an inside player or an outside player, you have to be able to do both but it's alright to sway one way a bit and be predominantly one or the other.

 

[HBF]

This is where we miss AB, who really is our in and under general at the centre square, and around stoppages. I do also see Steven Browne growing into this role as well. Real in and under type, will give you everything, and has great kicking skills.

 

[Blue Dimension]

Hadley has been a major disappointment after the first few rounds. Don't know what's happened to him.

 

[Sam The Doc]

1 of our major problems..
reckon our kicking in this yr has been very ordinary(a few times on friday night we took a while to organise who was going to kick in),whereas our opponents kicking in seems to get to the centre quite easily,lack of pressure.

 

[gbatman]

The thing is AB and Hadley aren't our answers. They make us more stagnant and flat footed around ball ups. And if we play these slow plodders our opposition run all over us, they run it out of the center and they hurt us badly. AB doesn't have the disposal skills or the pace to play AFL. Hadley doesn't have the pace or the disposal skills or strength to do it. If we play slow players we will get hurt, especially against good sides. Especially if we play them on the ball.

We are winning a lot of ruck hits the the oppositions advantage, we need to work on this area.

As for our physicality, the answer is not in playing Hadley or Bentick as they don't have what it takes. The answer is developing our current players, who do have potential for improvement as most of our on ballers have immature bodies. Browne has the potential to become our future inside player, he's good outside, he can run, he's tough and his disposal is good enough for AFL. Gibbs is another that can do it but he needs to develop mentally and physically. Walker is another one that plays the Judd role well which involvs winning the hard inside ball and being able to motor into the clear or handpass to a target.

We really need to work on our center plan.

Our answere are

 

[Will.B.Worth.Da.Waite]

I was thinking about this today actually. With the midfield we have, and the coaching staff we have (full of midfield greats - ratten, bradley, williams, harvey) I'm surprised we don't have awesome centre setups where we continuously dominate them (a la Williams and co circa '93)

 

[Pamam]

1 of our major problems..
reckon our kicking in this yr has been very ordinary(a few times on friday night we took a while to organise who was going to kick in),whereas our opponents kicking in seems to get to the centre quite easily,lack of pressure.

i think Scotland and Waite were missed on that!!

Scotland is usually one of the main kick out players and Waite usually takes the quick kick out (whenever that happens)

with those 2 out, Stevens seemed to have to run 50m to get the kick out.....if Scotland comes in this week im sure we will be better organised!!

 

[Pamam]

also i have been noticing lately

is that even though Hammer gets a decent amount of tapouts around the ground, he does seem to tap the ball to the oppositions attacking side...of which has come off bad for us and resulted in the opposition gaining the stoppage clearance!!!

but i am sure that with more games under his belt he will learn from this mistake.

Loved seeing Hampson have the strength on Cox in most of the stoppages....Cox was pushed and shoved around 2 easily by Hammer!!!

 

[parrot]

Strange because our rucks are doing quite well this year. Think we need to mix the midfield rotation up a bit. Suspect we'll see more of Browne through the middle, along with Carrazzo and Grigg. That should crank things up a bit. Really don't think it's a major problem. We're in a form slump at the moment, but we'll eventually start destroying oppositions in the middle again because of the talent we have.

 

[gbatman]

One thing that worried me was Hammer hitting it backwards in the defencive half. There are times when the ruckmen hit it into space and no one is running on to it. We aren't on the move we are more interested in pushing and shoving our opposition and standing still or moving but very slowly around the ruck contest.

I do agree with Harker, I've said it before that Warnock will make us better but if he is to do that we must use it.

The thing is there are plenty of times when our ruckmen are winning the hit outs consistantly and we don't seem to have a plan b to use it. We appear to be set up for the opposition rucks to win it even when we are winning it.

 

[one eyed bluey]

Fantastic summary gbatman, a good intelligent summary of where we are at in terms of our midfield.

Your right, we're desperately missing Carrazzo, Scotland, Walker and Grigg for that matter. Those 3 players will harden us up with their mature bodies when they come back and everybody around them will go up a notch.

Can't wait to see our midfield firing on all cylinders with Judd, Muprhy, Gibbs, Walker, Scotland, Carrazzo, Stevens, Simpson, then through in the up and comers in Grigg, Joseph, Browne and man that is a bloody fantastic midfield!

I think with our FULL TEAM on the park, our midfield is A+ AND it's still developing.

Our PRIORITY needs to be a tall marking forward who presents well and kicks acurately in this years draft, followed by a quality midfielder and then the best available.

 

[gbatman]

I think with another summer in the gym and Warnock fit Kreuzer can be our forward and Hampson can back up Warnock.

When we play the saints or the Cats we need to ruck well and play smart in the center to keep the ball away from their players and to our players advantage. We can exploit Geelong in the ruck and we must use it. When we play these teams we must back ourselves and our rucks, roll the dice and go on the attack and see what happens. we won't beat them by trying to keep the ball in close and 50/50.

 

[one eyed bluey]

My opinion on our midfielders in terms of Ball Winners, Runners/outsiders and players who can do Both:
Judd - Both (The most well rounded player i've ever seen he can do everything, needs to lift his kicking though)
Murphy - Both (Is becoming a good ball winner, as you said just needs another pre-season or 2 to develop the body and the hips to break the tackles)
Gibbs - Both (Has the potential to do both but at the moment he is just playing as an outside runner, his lacking confidence and needs to back himself in more at the contest and trust his decision making in close because it is first class)
Carrazzo - Both (I think we've forgotten how important this guy is, won our B/F a few seasons ago, the guys a ball magnet, he tackles hard, runs hard and can win his own ball, a vital player, we need him back asap)
Scotland - Both (Mainly used as a runner, due to his good footskills, plays down back as well but his a tank and a good ball winner when he goes in the centre but his rarely played there??)
Walker - Both
Browne - Ball winner
Grigg - Both (Mainly used as a runner but with more games I think he'll learn how to do both, certainly has the aggression to match it with the best ball winners going around, needs to develop more strength in the hips and the body though)
Simpson - Runner
Joseph - Runner (I dont think he'll ever be given a free role to simply be a ball winner, to vital to the team to do tagging jobs, but will get better at hurting his opponent going the other with time in the mould of K.Cornes)
Stevens - Runner (used to be able to do both, not sure if he can anymore?? Certainly miss his ability to do both roles as per a few seasons ago, he needs to get back to winning his own ball to make his opponent more accountable because lets face as an outside runner, his not good enough, he only runs one way. If you want to be a runner like Simpson you have to be able to run up and down all day in defense and attack Stevens can't do this.)
Hadley - Ball winner (I thought he was ok against Collingwood, I still think his worth keeping on the list, I'm not sure if its because his been out of the game so long but his struggling to find the pace of the game, maybe another full pre-season will see him lift his work rate next season, a good depth player)
Bentick - Ball winner (Unfortunately, AB's days are numbered, big fan of his because his such a little goer, but in modern football if your a ball winner you have to have sublime footskills and good hands, unfortunately AB has neither, plus kick goals which he doesnt do)
Robinson - Ball winner (love this bloke, has the ability to become the next Adrian Hickmont, his even got a bit of Vossy about him in the way he attacks the contest. Another vital cog in our midfield rotations, a big impact player, he can already change the momentum of a game at such a young age, with a massive tackle or a ridiculous act of courage. A natural leader and a fearless warrior, in 2 years time he could be anything.)

Tally:
Runners:3
Ball winners:4
Both:7
So we're missing 4 players in the midfield who have the ability to win their own ball and be an outside runner. These players are Walker, Scotland, Carrazzo, Grigg. Hence, the reason why we have struggled in some games and its been left up to to few and too many occasions. Judd and Murphy are carrying too many passengers. The 2 players which will decide how far we go this will be Gibbs and Stevens. If these 2 players can play to the level we know they can on a consistent basis our mids will dominate everygame and create more opportunites for our forwards. An in form and firing Stevens and Gibbs will provide a much needed chop out for Judd and Murphy. The experienced and mature bodies of Carrazzo and Scotland will come in this week I think?? They will provide the hardness we've been missing and they'll play their part every week, both have been true warriors to the navy blue.
Simpson, Girgg, Browne, Joseph and Robinson will play their part, but due to fitness and their bodies not being mature enough, they will tend to fade in and out of the game, which is expected.

Our A graders need to start playing like it and we're getting a few more warriors back this week in Carrazzo, Scotland and Grigg I think so this will change the dynamics of our midfield dramatically.

P.P.S I agree with you Haker, Ratts needs to settle on 1 brand of football and stick with it. For mine i think we have to play to our strengths, which is fast flowing attacking football. We must roll up our zone and put forward pressure on, back our midfield to win the contests and back our defense to kill the contest and rebound quickly. Its bold and risky but the chipping, slow game doesn't suit our poor skills and immature bodies.

 

[jj1978]

I think the main problem with our centre clearances has to do with the fact that Kreuzer/Hampson/Jacobs this season have been pretty good.

The last few years we have been the worst team in the competition in the ruck. Because of this fact our team obviously chose not to even bother roving and reading our ruckmen, but instead opted to read the opposition ruckmen and rove for them instead.

Now our team is showing faith in our ruckmen and so have made the decision to stop roving the opposition ruck and rove our own again in the hope our rucks win the fair share of the contests.

As someone mentioned earlier we have a coaching panel consisting of 4 of the greatest midfielders of the last 20 years, and I would feel they are working on plays that would put some faith in our rucks. It's a teething process but in 2 years time when he have Warnock, Hampson, Kreuzer and Jacobs as mature strong big men other teams will start pissing in their pants, whereas we'll be jizzing in ours.

 

[gbatman]

one thing i want to clarify is that all players, even inside players need to be on the move around stoppages. For any one who plays footy you would know you don't want to get the ball when you're standing still, can't always use it that well if you get away with it and you have a better chance of gettin it if you are moving. If you're standing still opposition players on the move find it very easy to run around you.

Hadley - The game has got quicker and might be past him. Yes he did play i the lion's premiership but you could have put the worst player of all time in that team and they still would have won 3 flags. Let's face it he was probably the worst player they had. I don't recon he's much of a player but he could prove me wrong.

I think a few of our players like Gibbs need some more aggression in their game and attack on the ball. Gibbs and shepherding is an issue.

Every one here has made some really good points. The key point that we aren't roving to our ruckmen is an important one.

Another point, a few years back St. Kilda had a lot of highly rated kids but had a reputation for being soft. They had some good wins and many dissapointing losses. Now they are tough and hard at it and that little improvement is the reason they have gone from a good team to a great team.

They one plan idea is ok but I think we are still finding out what plan that is. I think we need to be more confident and attacking.

One thing I noticed is our teams motivational levels. For example, compare the West Coast game to the Fremantle/Adelaide game. We just lacked intensite, physicality and aggression. We looked less motivated.

 

[The Exorcist]

Well done on that! But i dont think its our major problem/downfall by far. We all know our defence is poor when the ball comes in quick and direct. I believe this is more of a problem than clearances.

I think any defence will look poor if the ball is coming in quick and direct - that's why teams need time to get back and flood, because that stops forwards being able to lead.

If the ball is coming in quick and direct it's more an issue of the midfield and forwards not doing their job in manning up and chasing to stop the ball going down to the opposition forward line quicker than superman.

 

[Sin City]

Eddie Betts has been really good at reading the ball off the ruckmans hands and winning it out of the centre.

Hopefully as Garlett and Yarran improve Eddie will get more of a chance in the middle.

Having said that i don't think clearances are too big of an issue either, and will be even less of a problem as our young rucks keep improving.

 

[ParaBellum]

We're also particularly bad at defending from stoppages inside defensive 50. There were times in the Sydney and Adelaide game where they had a ball up or throw in in the backline where I just resigned myself to the fact that a goal was going to be scored in the next 10 seconds.

 

[gbatman]

it's fact that clearances are our problem. we aren't competative enough around ball ups. we aren't moving and moving to the right places. Yes it does make our defence look worse than it is. It's a situation where attack is the best form of defence. You don't see St. Kilda standing still around ball ups, there are loads of players moving through and moving around the contest. Yes I recon eddie betts is a clever rover. It's up to our others to become better rovers.

Another thing is our ruckmen always attempt to keep the ball in close. Almost like we are afraid to hit the ball further into space and allow judd, murphy, joseph, Betts to run onto it in space. We need to be more attacking and confident to attack in there. we need to be less predictable and mix up how we attack things in there and keep the opposition guessing. We need to controll what goes on in the center, not work around what our opposition are doing. They need to work around us.

 

[40yearBLUE]

With due respect to the work that has gone into this thread, I disagree we have a problem with our mids or our backs or for that matter our forwards, although I would respectfully suggest that if we have an ongoing issue that does not seem to be resolving itself it is in forward line structure.

That said we have the 4th best attack and we have the 3rd best points against, and given the 2 better are undefeated I think that dispells any idea we have a poor defence. Our mids are as good as most, but rarely all fire in the same game. That is more due to age and experience rather than ability. The OP pointed to the lack of body condition, and this is true. In a year or 2 our gun players will also not only have the big bodies but the knowledge of how to use them to advantage. These things take time. I am very happy with our progress, I think we are on or ahead of target. We are a few unlucky losses (3 by less than a kick that could have gone our way with a little more luck) off being 2 games clear in 3rd, so lets all just chill, stop over anylising where we are deficient. We are not deficient, we are putting together a flag challenging team. Not this year, no one could honestly say we should be this year. But the signs are clear, when on we can beat almost any team even if they are also on, when off we still look to be far away from it, dont worry that is quite normal. And as for us trying out different styles of play and coaching moves, this again is part of the process in putting together a team that can cope with any opposition tactic. We have played 33 players to see who fits where, again this is a good long term sign but hampers short term success, but what do we want people, short term also rans or genuine flag contention? We have to go through it to learn, even if it looks ordinary at times and does not seem to fit with our most successful games of attacking game style. Just follow the OP's advise, be patient.

 

[gbatman]

yep, I think one area we could improve on in the immediate future is our roving. We don't seem to rove off our ruckmen well. I think all our players can improve on our roving. We will have to be good at it when Warnock is up and going.