Centre Half Back

[biglebowski]

Looking through the list I reckon this could be the single biggest issue.

Kouta, Whitnall - both better suited to other roles. I think it has to be one of those guys though as no one else has either the skills or brains to do it.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Kouta will rotate through there occasionally but will not start there. Whitnall will definitely play down there a bit if the training setup is any guide and assuming Morrell can hold down CHF. Other options are Livingston, Prendergast and possibly Norman considering his growth spurt.

 

[biglebowski]

Any other interesting notes from training setups?

Interesting that Morrell is being set for CHF.

Hadn't considered Norman as CHB. Wouldn't have thought Livingston had necessary size. Prendergast could be a good alternative?

 

[koutawalker]

I'd rather see Whitnall play CHF rather than CHB. If Whitnall's down back we are defending the game rather than attacking. Kouta will probably spend time there and at FF. I would like to see Livingston be given a crack at it in the Pre Season CUp. He's had a growth spurt and put on some weight. Does he have the speed? At the draft camp he was in the top 10 for the 20m, but i haven't really seen him use it.

 

[LordLucifer]

Originally posted by biglebowski
Looking through the list I reckon this could be the single biggest issue.

Kouta, Whitnall - both better suited to other roles. I think it has to be one of those guys though as no one else has either the skills or brains to do it.

CHB AND FB are the key issues, we only have players who can pinch-hit in those roles at the moment. We have to find some genuine key position defenders before we can seriously be considered a threat once again.

 

[Thrawn]

Re: Re: Centre Half Back

Originally posted by TheSheik
CHB AND FB are the key issues, we only have players who can pinch-hit in those roles at the moment. We have to find some genuine key position defenders before we can seriously be considered a threat once again.

Don't count out Bret Thornton to play at full back. From what he's shown so far, and the opponents he has beaten, then he'll blossom. We'll need a CHB and another tall down there though... Thronton needs support.

Whitnall needs to play at CHF - where he plays his best. I believe that his talent will be wasted if he plays down there. Reads the play well, but is too slow to run with the likes of Tredrea. His damaging best will suit us better - at CHF for mine.

 

[biglebowski]

I agree that Thornton has shown enough to take on FB.

Whitnall has played his best footy as CHF.

Another interseting position is the ruck - Mott seems to be getting a fair bit of coverage in the press - could be a bit more dynamic than Barnaby.

Barnaby and Digby ...... sheesh

 

[LordLucifer]

Re: Re: Re: Centre Half Back

Originally posted by Thrawn
Don't count out Bret Thornton to play at full back.

Thornton is a terrific player but is not a key position player. He has been used there due to the dearth of suitably talented players to fill the hole.

He may do it again this year at times but it is not his best position. He needs to take the third best forward, the Aaron Hamill/Daniel bradshaw type of forwards. If the other two can be found and Thornton takes number 3, the defence will be very strong.

 

[DIG]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Centre Half Back

Thornton's been groomed for some time as a key defender and I think he does a good job and is still improving - especially liked it when he did a number on Lloyd late last year.

Maybe he'd do better as a 3rd tall defender, maybe not. In any case, with our list we haven't got that luxury - he's our number 1 defender and he'll get most of the big jobs again this year.

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

Thornton according to reports is currently 192
Livo and Norman 193
Fisher and Waite 192
Walker 190.5
Prender 194

Plenty of height there.
Whitnall to start as CHB and the brains of the defence.
Thornton with Pollak are the 2 best young defenders in the league.

Setanta 198 will be groomed as CHB over the next year.

IMHO, Norman will finish the season with CHB his own.

Heights are from a club source or players themselves.

Defence

Bowyer Thornton Livo
Houla Whitnall Teague to start the season

IMHO it will conclude as
Bowyer Thornton Livo
Teague Norman Houla/McGrath

Future

Bowyer Thornton Livo
Walker Setanta Norman

 

[Thrawn]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Centre Half Back

Originally posted by TheSheik
Thornton is a terrific player but is not a key position player. He has been used there due to the dearth of suitably talented players to fill the hole.

Who knows? In a few years time he might add a few more cms to his current frame, making him tall enough. But IMO, I don't care if he was even 160 cms, the point is that he gets the job done - beating his opponent by limiting their influence on the game and providing rebound from defence. If he cannot spare a few cms then so what? I'd classify him as a KPP because of his efficiency and effectivness, and that he is stong enough to take on and beat the first or second forward.

He'd probably be able to spoil better if he had those few cms, but if he does the job...

He may do it again this year at times but it is not his best position.

So early in his career, we cannot really tell what his best position is. But currently, FB is his best position at the moment... but if we get a tall defender someohow who blossoms, Thronton might be placed on the third forward. He has shown that he's capable on taking on the best, and since he gets the job done and we have no other FB as good as him, why move him to the next best forward? God forbid if we put someone like Livingston on the best forward with Thronton on the third - the first forward is usually the most dangerous.

He needs to take the third best forward, the Aaron Hamill/Daniel bradshaw type of forwards. If the other two can be found and Thornton takes number 3, the defence will be very strong.

As above, why does he need to take on the third forward where he can be just as effective on taking on the best? It might take a long time before two, solid and big defenders can be found... especially those who are better than Thronton. Maybe we might, but the chances are slim (for all we know, we might pick up the next Livingston). nd if we do get some tall defenders, will they be as effective as T-Bird?

If Thornton can beat the best forward, despite being a few cms shorter... then he is the best option as our other defenders have shown nothing compariable. It is ideal for Thornton to be 198 cms as you'd expect from a KPP, but height isn't everything in this instance, especially if you have talent and footy smarts.

 

[Effes]

Sheik seems to be obsessed with these 195+ key defenders.

You dont need to be that tall to play on the gun forwards.

Leppitshc and Michael are 191 and 190cm respectively, yet they dominate over other forwards who are around the 195cm mark.

From the match simulations at training it looks like Kouta will play CHF/midfield role.

It would be good if Laurie could get promoted....it will definitely be hard to match up on him plus Fev, Morrell and Fisher in the one forward line

 

[la47]

Originally posted by Bluemike
Sheik seems to be obsessed with these 195+ key defenders.

Sheik also goes on about Fevola being an 'oxygen theif' and is the most pessimistic (not realistic) suppoter I know of.

 

[LordLucifer]

Originally posted by Bluemike
Sheik seems to be obsessed with these 195+ key defenders.

You dont need to be that tall to play on the gun forwards.

Leppitshc and Michael are 191 and 190cm respectively, yet they dominate over other forwards who are around the 195cm mark.

Not obsessed, just know that it will give us a clear advantage over the rest of the teams in the league. If we want to be able to match up well on the big forwards of the competition (e.g. Brown, Rocca etc) then we have to find the height, nothing obsessive about that at all !!

Besides, if you look at all of our premiership teams, we had quality tall defenders in the key posts, why should we change from that view now ??

As for Brisbane, well I'm guessing the quality of their midfield makes it a hell of a lot easier for them to get away with 190cm key position defenders.

 

[LordLucifer]

Originally posted by la47
Sheik also goes on about Fevola being an 'oxygen theif' and is the most pessimistic (not realistic) suppoter I know of.

Now listen here Sonny, the term is "oxygen bandit" and it appears from your post that you may be of the same ilk.

Being realistic (as opposed to pessimistic) is knowing that one good season in five does not automatically elevate Fevola to superstar status for the rest of his footy career. Sure he was terrific in 2003 but if he doesn't follow it up with another good one in 2004 then he is certainly a waste of time, money, effort as well as oxygen.

 

[BlueMark]

Bang on Heatley. Whits will start down back at the moment to lend experience to the defence. More than happy with Thornton at FB. He is pure silk. He is not afraid to mix it with anyone in the comp, as Jakovich found out. Llyod hates him.

 

[HBF]

Talk about overkill. Haven't we all discussed this at length over the pre-season. My prefernace and i've stated this on a number of accoasions is to play Kouta at CHB. Whitnall is much better at CHF and can you imagine big Lance trying to keep up with someone like Tarrant. He'd have his hands on his knees 15 minutes into the game.

Whilst I like the look of Norman, its a bit much to ask a 2 year player to hold down CHB. Mind you, Thornton has done very well at Full Back. Let Norman take the 3rd best defender in 2004 and let the kid develop.

Not sure whether Livingston is going to cut it as a FB or CHB. Would like to see what he can do up on the forward line and I think Prenda has found a niche is a run with type of player.

We've done really well over the summer in getting some depth into our midfield and our Forwards are OK.

Lets face it, Kouta is probably not going to recapture the form he had before he did his knee. He's into his 30's and doesn't have the same impact he once did in the midfield.

It's SO obvious that he should play at CHB for 2004 and occassionaly rotate him through the midfield

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Originally posted by HugeBluesFan
Talk about overkill. Haven't we all discussed this at length over the pre-season.

Maybe but because it is the pre-season, we have discussed pretty much everything around the various forums. An opinion on positions though can be changed based on what the boys are doing in training, who has bulked up and who hasn't and who is in the best shape of their career. As the training reports come through, lots of possibilities spring up.

 

[Jimmae]

To all those who reckon that we need a 195+ defender:

SOS was 191.

Need I say more?

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Good point Jimmae though the Encyclopedia of AFL Footballers has SOS as being 194cms.

Let's complete the rest of the defence. Michael Sexton was 192cm, Ang Christou 190cm and Peter Dean 188cm. All formed one of the best defences I have ever seen along with Mil Hanna 188cm or Tom Alvin 183cm.

Height is certainly no substitute for talent.

 

[LordLucifer]

Originally posted by The Old Dark Navy's
Height is certainly no substitute for talent.

Agree wholeheartedly ODN, but we have to find guys b/w 194 & 196cm with talent to fill those key posts. Admittedly guys like this just don't grow on trees but we have to keep looking for them.

 

[Blue Fury]

I reckon Prenda will get first crack at CHB. (I hope either Norman an Livo) and I’d leave Lance CHF but I'm not the coach. Pagan will get it right just give him time.

 

[Jimmae]

Originally posted by The Old Dark Navy's
Good point Jimmae though the Encyclopedia of AFL Footballers has SOS as being 194cms.

Must have hunched a bit later in his career

 

[Jimmae]

On a more relevant note I think Thornton is a fantastic full-back and may not look like a natural for the position he has all the attributes bar body-on-body strength, and he's not far off a helping of that.

Centre half-back will go to whoever best matches up on the day, whether it be Whitnall, Kouta, Norman, Prendergast, Livingston, Morrell or maybe even Walker or Haplin?

We don't have someone who we can use in there week in week out... so why not rotate it?

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Originally posted by Jimmae
Must have hunched a bit later in his career

Taking a knee in the jatz crackers can do that do you I understand.