Politics Centrelink

[Rotayjay]

Today Minister Stuart Robert said there will still be a safety net in the new year, and that the government's primary focus will be getting Australians into jobs. Same old line - it has nothing to do with the amount a person needs to survive while trying to get a job.

I hate violence and I would never really punch anyone, but I felt like punching him in the face. The Liberal Party is an evil organisation.

 

[Hawk Dork]

Today Minister Stuart Robert said there will still be a safety net in the new year, and that the government's primary focus will be getting Australians into jobs. Same old line - it has nothing to do with the amount a person needs to survive while trying to get a job.

I hate violence and I would never really punch anyone, but I felt like punching him in the face. The Liberal Party is an evil organisation.

They need more than 50% of Australians to agree with them to be able to do what they do

 

[Kram]

Dole needs to go up because the old rate was ridiculous with the rising costs of living but it's always been a 'challenge' to get by on it under any government, that will never change and arguably shouldn't.

It's not supposed to be something people spend their whole lives living on.

 

[Hawk Dork]

Dole needs to go up because the old rate was ridiculous with the rising costs of living but it's always been a 'challenge' to get by on it under any government, that will never change and arguably shouldn't.

It's not supposed to be something people spend their whole lives living on.

I think the UBI will be here eventually
Robots are going to take a lot of the jerbs in the future

 

[Rotayjay]

They need more than 50% of Australians to agree with them to be able to do what they do

The interesting thing is that many of the 'new' Centrelink recipients got the doubled $1100 rate, went back to work and never experienced actually looking for work while living on $600 per fortnight.

So the uneducated Philistines who assume that the unemployed are all bludgers will probably listen to A Current Affair and keep voting towards the right.

 

[Over The Post]

The interesting thing is that many of the 'new' Centrelink recipients got the doubled $1100 rate, went back to work and never experienced actually looking for work while living on $600 per fortnight.

and/or had the $1500 jobkeeper too.

Situation played out exactly as the libs wanted.

 

[Frank Bunn]

The interesting thing is that many of the 'new' Centrelink recipients got the doubled $1100 rate, went back to work and never experienced actually looking for work while living on $600 per fortnight.

So the uneducated Philistines who assume that the unemployed are all bludgers will probably listen to A Current Affair and keep voting towards the right.

Evidence of this?

 

[Rotayjay]

Evidence of this?

A majority of Australians would welcome a universal basic income, survey finds

Nearly two-thirds of Australians say they would support a cash payment being given to all members of the community on a regular basis regardless of income level and with no strings attached, according to a new poll.

mobile.abc.net.au

The number of people on Job Seeker Payment dropped off by about one hundred thousand between the peak of 1.46 million in May, and October when it was 1.35 million. In addition, many of those people still officially on the benefit are now no longer relying on it entirely, as they have some work and Centrelink dramatically increased the amount your partner can earn before your Jobseeker is cancelled. Many have not been so lucky. Whilst 100,000 is not an overwhelming number of people, it's still a lot of people who only got the 'you don't need to look for work, here's $1100 per fortnight' treatment rather than the 'real' experience of receiving about $600 per fortnight.

That full experience has not returned even now. The base rate of Jobseeker is about $560 to $700 depending on your rent (but you need to find a rental that will accept you before Centrelink will pay you extra for it). From April until September, they chucked an extra $550 on top of that. Between September and December it was an extra $250 and from 1 January to 31 March it's an extra $150. The government is being deliberately secretive about what will happen after that.

The government is yet to produce a good argument as to why an unemployed person deserves more money during the pandemic (which is not over) but the same person deserves less afterwards. Their reasons are entirely cynical.

 

[Rotayjay]

I think the UBI will be here eventually
Robots are going to take a lot of the jerbs in the future

Even as a leftist I'm not entirely sold on the idea of UBI, however in my opinion it's inevitable. You can smell it coming - give it 20 to 70 years to be implemented in Australia. I'm guessing Australia will hold out longer than most of the OECD and introduce it in about 2060.

 

[Rob R]

That was my position pre Xmas, the best way to fire up the flat economy then.

When we cant get fruit picked at the moment, something is awry.

Worse cant get fruit picked in high unemployment areas not because the dole is too high but because quite a few long term unemployed are just too lazy to work regardless.

On SM-G570F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Gough]

Worse cant get fruit picked in high unemployment areas not because the dole is too high but because quite a few long term unemployed are just too lazy to work regardless.

On SM-G570F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Maybe farmers could pay pickers a reasonable rate. There's been any numbers of articles explaining the real reason farmers can't get their fruit picked which is a shame for the ones who are doing the right thing, perhaps if they looked inwardly they might find the solution to their problems goes beyond just blaming others for their problems.

 

[Kram]

Maybe farmers could pay pickers a reasonable rate. There's been any numbers of articles explaining the real reason farmers can't get their fruit picked which is a shame for the ones who are doing the right thing, perhaps if they looked inwardly they might find the solution to their problems goes beyond just blaming others for their problems.

What rate would it take for your majesty to pick fruit? $50 an hour?

The problem could be flog farmers not even paying the proper base rate and conditions.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Worse cant get fruit picked in high unemployment areas not because the dole is too high but because quite a few long term unemployed are just too lazy to work regardless.

On SM-G570F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Nah, many of the farmers have labour contracts with the backpacker hostels, you have to pay to stay at the hostel to get the work.

 

[Kram]

Nah, many of the farmers have labour contracts with the backpacker hostels, you have to pay to stay at the hostel to get the work.

Yeah exploiting desperate back packers.

 

[Rob R]

What rate would it take for your majesty to pick fruit? $50 an hour?

The problem could be flog farmers not even paying the proper base rate and conditions.

They should pay the award wage but there will still be some long term bludgers who would the dole over any income.

If fruit costs more as a result then we should help farmers by ending deceptive advertising eg. SPC Aussie Made with small writing saying only 47% australian ingredients so it is should only actually be SPC Country X made with a token Australian contribution so people can choose to look for a real Australian product.

On SM-G570F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Kwality]

They should pay the award wage but there will still be some long term bludgers who would the dole over any income.

If fruit costs more as a result then we should help farmers by ending deceptive advertising eg. SPC Aussie Made with small writing saying only 47% australian ingredients so it is should only actually be SPC Country X made with a token Australian contribution so people can choose to look for a real Australian product.

On SM-G570F using BigFooty.com mobile app

At some point do we simply get out of fruit, import it? Is that simply exporting jobs, do to agriculture what we did to manufacturing?

I employed backpackers on short term projects & they were more interested in a unit rate than the award rate. Not so their Aussie cousins in our employment queues. Generalisation of course, not all.

 

[Gethelred]

Worse cant get fruit picked in high unemployment areas not because the dole is too high but because quite a few long term unemployed are just too lazy to work regardless.

On SM-G570F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Could you do me a favour and demonstrate both sides of this post before claiming it as more than a hypothetical? As in, find me a) a place in which fruit picking jobs are readily available, and b) with a high level of unemployment in the immediate vicinity.

Because that's my problem with this scenario when it's provided. See, a little while ago, I did a bit of a thought experiment in which I did the math for someone looking to relocate to a country town/somewhere a long way off for work (I chose abattoir work, as that's relatively well paid and would provide enough money to someone looking to provide for a family). It wound up being possible for a single person, but difficult; you're sleeping in your car or a vacant home whilst waiting for your first few waves of pay to come through, and eating barely anything. For someone with a dependent, it's not a doable thing; you need someone to look after that dependent while you're at work, and you can't sleep in your car with a kid.

You're essentially uprooting a family from a sustainable situation and plonking them in a distant community with a single prospect that - if it doesn't work out - leaves them completely stuffed. And that's for abattoir work, which is paid waaaay better than just fruit picking.

I know I've was desperate enough while on the Newstart that were I not studying I would've considered doing something like that. I wouldn't have minded sleeping rough and eating cold baked beans, showering at a pool or a truckstop. But most of the people on the Newstart aren't young, able bodied men; there are single mothers, injured and fired middle aged men, addicts etc. Does it make sense to uproot those people from situations in which they can certainly find employment eventually - and stable employment - and to risk complete poverty in the event that things don't work out?

 

[NSWCROW]

Worse cant get fruit picked in high unemployment areas not because the dole is too high but because quite a few long term unemployed are just too lazy to work regardless.

Denis Denuto ?

 

[Rob R]

Could you do me a favour and demonstrate both sides of this post before claiming it as more than a hypothetical? As in, find me a) a place in which fruit picking jobs are readily available, and b) with a high level of unemployment in the immediate vicinity.

Because that's my problem with this scenario when it's provided. See, a little while ago, I did a bit of a thought experiment in which I did the math for someone looking to relocate to a country town/somewhere a long way off for work (I chose abattoir work, as that's relatively well paid and would provide enough money to someone looking to provide for a family). It wound up being possible for a single person, but difficult; you're sleeping in your car or a vacant home whilst waiting for your first few waves of pay to come through, and eating barely anything. For someone with a dependent, it's not a doable thing; you need someone to look after that dependent while you're at work, and you can't sleep in your car with a kid.

You're essentially uprooting a family from a sustainable situation and plonking them in a distant community with a single prospect that - if it doesn't work out - leaves them completely stuffed. And that's for abattoir work, which is paid waaaay better than just fruit picking.

I know I've was desperate enough while on the Newstart that were I not studying I would've considered doing something like that. I wouldn't have minded sleeping rough and eating cold baked beans, showering at a pool or a truckstop. But most of the people on the Newstart aren't young, able bodied men; there are single mothers, injured and fired middle aged men, addicts etc. Does it make sense to uproot those people from situations in which they can certainly find employment eventually - and stable employment - and to risk complete poverty in the event that things don't work out?

Good question and points - I certainly agree it would be hard and in cases not worth whole shifting a family.
Shepparton would be an example, above average unemployment especially for 17-24 year olds yet reliant on foreign backpackers to perform fruit picking despite jobs paying more than $20 an hour in some cases.

On SM-G570F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Gethelred]

Good question and points - I certainly agree it would be hard and in cases not worth whole shifting a family.
Shepparton would be an example, above average unemployment especially for 17-24 year olds yet reliant on foreign backpackers to perform fruit picking despite jobs paying more than $20 an hour in some cases.

On SM-G570F using BigFooty.com mobile app

The question I have - knowing almost nothing about the jobs situation in Shepparton - is whether these young people are unemployed because they are studying/trying to get an apprenticeship etc, or are they unemployed because they can't find work.

I mean, exactly how much of it is real unemployment compared to an unemployment statistic?

 

[Rotayjay]

The question I have - knowing almost nothing about the jobs situation in Shepparton - is whether these young people are unemployed because they are studying/trying to get an apprenticeship etc, or are they unemployed because they can't find work.

I mean, exactly how much of it is real unemployment compared to an unemployment statistic?

Unemployment statistics are questionable, being generous. The ABS takes samples from time to time (how big these samples are I don't know) and to be considered unemployed you must be over 15 years old, actively looking for work and have not worked in the last week. If you're not looking (for whatever reason) or you worked any hours at all in the sample week, you don't count.

 

[Gethelred]

Unemployment statistics are questionable, being generous. The ABS takes samples from time to time (how big these samples are I don't know) and to be considered unemployed you must be over 15 years old, actively looking for work and have not worked in the last week. If you're not looking (for whatever reason) or you worked any hours at all in the sample week, you don't count.

So, if anything, the numbers of unemployed should be much, much higher.

 

[Over The Post]

Yes.

 

[CatFan79]

So, if anything, the numbers of unemployed should be much, much higher.

Plenty of people are 'looking' or applying for jobs purely to satisfy the new start requirement.

Some oldie on sunrise this morning bitching because her jobseeker is dropping back..

Maybe if she'd made better life choices she wouldn't be in her 60s and reliant on a hand out. Nah it's Morrison's fault.

 

[Gough]

Plenty of people are 'looking' or applying for jobs purely to satisfy the new start requirement.

Some oldie on sunrise this morning bitching because her jobseeker is dropping back..

Maybe if she'd made better life choices she wouldn't be in her 60s and reliant on a hand out. Nah it's Morrison's fault.

Morrison lifted a million or so people out of poverty at the start of Covid and rather than celebrate this not insignificant achievement he sent them straight back there. We can afford to do this, the government chooses not to.